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The Star article on Comic OA
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Started by ESeffinga,

52 posts in this topic

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grapeape

grapeape

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3 hours ago, alxjhnsn said:

Interesting, but the headline is a bit off (as they often are) since Tin Tin has been selling for that for a long time. :)

The usual suspects. Jeff Singh cool dude love that Tin Tin. A good post because any exposure is good. However I’m looking for ambassadors that really get to the heart of what collectors are doing in the comic art world. 
“Reporting is focusing on money and that’s fine. Nothing in that article is likely to persuade anyone outside our community to get involved.

James Halperin doesn’t help couching our field as something you can still get in before the bubble bursts. Sounds like he’s selling oil rigs on properties Exxon left five years ago.

There really is something special about comic art. I can think of fresh and forward thinking ways of 1) reassuring new and existing comic art fans that this “thing of ours” is worth staying invested in 2) attract outsiders with solid material reasons to join us based on sound economics related to inventory minus the pie in the sky buy slash and burn mentality.

Its time for publicity about the artists to shape our field. The artists, through their rich history as well as their talented outputs are what sell.

Simon and Kirby and WW II and many others. The sixties, seventies eighties nineties. Money is the least of it. I almost never talk money with fellow collectors unless they want my opinion.

The owner of Batman 251 I want to believe cares about the art and history of the cover more than the money. Money or value is what you share with people that don’t get why a grown human would purchase kids drawings. So we tell them, that Batman or Tin Tin is worth X dollars and KPOW they understand $$$.

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alxjhnsn

alxjhnsn

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Peter L said:

The most interesting thing about the article I found was the suggestion that a common page rate for an artist on a big title is between $30-60 a page.  Is that correct?

What was Kirby making back then?  $5 a page?  

From an interview in the Comics Journal, 

Quote

GROTH: When you say you were doing very well, what does that mean? What was your page rate in the ’50s?

KIRBY: Thirty-five to 50 dollars for a complete page. It depended on who you worked for. Some paid less. Some paid more.

For modern day, here's what Jim Keefe had to say on DC and Marvel today,

Quote

Comic Book Artist
The median comic book artist salary is $36,500

Penciller
Starting rates at Marvel and DC: $160 to $260 per page.

Inker
$75 to $100 per page.

Colorist
$20 and $121 per page

Letterer
$10 and $25 per page

Jim's page is quite interesting.

Oh, a handy inflation calculator says that Jack was probably doing much better than the average comic artist today: $55 in 1955 is nearly $500 today. So our folks are getting half of what he got in purchasing power.

image.thumb.png.fdd739bf7511f6f78d10872b3b5eef48.png
 

Edited by alxjhnsn
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alxjhnsn

alxjhnsn

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2 hours ago, Bronty said:

That’s not apples to apples... can’t compare Kirby to what the starting or average guy is getting.   Even in the 50s he was already a grizzled veteran

Inflation since then is nearly 10x. If you care to assume K was 2x the average, the majority of the artists today are still being paid less in purchasing power.

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Bronty

Bronty

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, alxjhnsn said:

Inflation since then is nearly 10x. If you care to assume K was 2x the average, the majority of the artists today are still being paid less in purchasing power.

2x the average is pulled straight from your posterior ;)

gotta compare him to say Jim Lee.   We simply don’t know but I’d be surprised if Jim isn’t making more particularly once you add in what his work will fetch in the market  .   If you want to talk average page rates then the discussion is Don Perlin not Jack Kirby  

Edited by Bronty
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Unca Ben

Unca Ben

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, alxjhnsn said:

From an interview in the Comics Journal, 

Quote

GROTH: When you say you were doing very well, what does that mean? What was your page rate in the ’50s?

KIRBY: Thirty-five to 50 dollars for a complete page. It depended on who you worked for. Some paid less. Some paid more.

This says $35-$50 for a complete page - plotting, writing, inking, and lettering; not just pencils.
So if you're looking at comps for today's rates you'd want to include the range of rates for penciller, inker, letterer - not to mention writer.

13 hours ago, alxjhnsn said:
  Quote

Comic Book Artist
The median comic book artist salary is $36,500

Penciller
Starting rates at Marvel and DC: $160 to $260 per page.

Inker
$75 to $100 per page.

Colorist
$20 and $121 per page

Letterer
$10 and $25 per page

...so today's combined rate range would be between $245 -$385 for pencils, letters and inks, not including the writer's or colorist's fees.
I left off colorist because I am unsure if Kirby was including some sort of color guides when he referenced a "complete page" from S&K studios.  I believe I've read that back then some color guides were done at the printer, depending on the company.

So today's artist combined (high) rates at $385 - especially if you need to add in a writers fee on top of that -  is close to the high range of the inflation calculator of Simon &Kirby's $480 in 2020. (a $95 a page difference)

Edited by Unca Ben
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alxjhnsn

alxjhnsn

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4 hours ago, Unca Ben said:

So today's artist combined (high) rates at $385 - especially if you need to add in a writers fee on top of that -  is close to the high range of the inflation calculator of Simon &Kirby's $480 in 2020. (a $95 a page difference)

Still that's a 20% pay cut over the years and the cost of the books (64 pages for $0.10 cents) to today (20 pages of story for $4.00) is even greater than inflation (640 pages per $1 vs. 5 pages per $1; 128x). Someone's making money, but it doesn't seem to be the creative types.

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alxjhnsn

alxjhnsn

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9 hours ago, Bronty said:

2x the average is pulled straight from your posterior ;)

gotta compare him to say Jim Lee.   We simply don’t know but I’d be surprised if Jim isn’t making more particularly once you add in what his work will fetch in the market  .   If you want to talk average page rates then the discussion is Don Perlin not Jack Kirby  

Re: 2x
Yes, it's a guess. 

Re: Compare to Jim Lee
Back in the 50s and early 60s (prior to 64 - the timeframe of the quote) the big money cartoonists were in the papers. Yes, Jack probably made more than many others in comics in the 50s/early 60s, but was it the same % difference as Jim versus others today? It seems unlikely to me.

Plus Jack didn't have the aftermarket for his work that Jim has; Jack's sole buyer was the publisher. :(

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jjonahjameson11

jjonahjameson11

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Posted

Comparing pay of the 60’s to present day is an apples to oranges exercise, where present day compensation may include:

-character ownership & payment for usage thereof in multi media services, consumables, games, movies, streaming, etc.

- medical/health care, by the larger companies.  I don’t know the qualifications necessary for the creator to obtain, but it’s there

-OA page returns/sales therof

-compensation based on sales figures

i think when you include all of the above compensation, you’ll agree the majority of artists working for the larger companies are relatively better off today than yesteryear.

 

oh, and in regard to Kirby’s pay in the 60’s, let’s not forget the bonuses he received from Marvel.  It was referenced in Alter Ego, but I recall Kirby received $10K one year, which was a substantial amount back then

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Bronty

Bronty

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2 hours ago, alxjhnsn said:

Re: 2x
Yes, it's a guess. 

Re: Compare to Jim Lee
Back in the 50s and early 60s (prior to 64 - the timeframe of the quote) the big money cartoonists were in the papers. Yes, Jack probably made more than many others in comics in the 50s/early 60s, but was it the same % difference as Jim versus others today? It seems unlikely to me.

Plus Jack didn't have the aftermarket for his work that Jim has; Jack's sole buyer was the publisher. :(

Which is exactly my point

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Bronty

Bronty

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Posted

Yeah but it’s not apples to apples because nothing about the industries and the way the guys get paid is the same.   The reality is the guys at the fringe are probably making less than ever and the stars are probably making more than ever

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aokartman

aokartman

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1 hour ago, AnkurJ said:

James Halperin, Heritage founder and co-chairman. “I don’t think we’re really near the bubble [bursting] yet.”

Very promising :facepalm:

Seriously.  

While I think most original comic art is undervalued, it is curious to hear big collectors talk about bubbles.

I think waves is more appropriate.

David

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