THE 2020 SKETCH COVER MEGA THREAD 14 14

[ivdyer]

8 hours ago, Iconic1s said:

This is super perplexing to me... I wonder how/why CGC decided to go that route with the label?  They are DEFINITELY COOL and it's definitely an 'art form' in and of itself but actually troubling that CGC didn't go with a Qualified Label for these.  I also imagine, they could be very collectible for the art form/artist but not so much for the book itself anymore because it's cut up (just my opinion as I know to each his/her own).

I guess next time you submit a book with a coupon/piece missing have it signed by an artist and say it was done for artistic reasons and you are good to go.

Please no offense intended to the owner of these, I agree that they are very cool indeed but it really troubles me when so much effort goes into finding Universal 9.8's and they are giving basically the same grade to books with half the cover cut out.

I thought the same but apparently CGC SS has changed its stance or at least for this artist as he is submitting these himself directly to CGC 

Also, this is no different then any numerous licensed die cut covers by Marvel so I see no reason why CGC SS should not grade these accordingly.

Edited October 29, 2020 by ivdyer

[Iconic1s]

3 hours ago, ivdyer said:

I thought the same but apparently CGC SS has changed its stance or at least for this artist as he is submitting these himself directly to CGC 

Also, this is no different then any numerous licensed die cut covers by Marvel so I see no reason why CGC SS should not grade these accordingly.

I'm not familiar with the licensed Marvel die cut covers but if they are anything like the die cut cover below then I think CGC made a bad call here.  The below die cut process was part of the manufacture of this book.  In the case of the SS cut out book an artist has removed pieces of the book at their own discretion and altered the book from its original state.  It's no longer anywhere near what it would have had to be to earn a 9.8 Universal grade (minus the signature of course).  As much as I want to, I just can't wrap my mind around this not leading it to be a Qualified Label.

Again, really neat work and I actually wouldn't mind having a couple of these with my preferred characters, but I wouldn't expect them to be anything but Qualified under CGC's own grading criteria.  It has become art more than it is a comic book at this point; the problem is that this happens to be in a comic book holder with a grade (a high grade that many books can't attain) assigned to a comic while also being allowed to miss parts.  Actually NG (coverless or partial comics) may be the appropriate way to go for these books at this point for all we know.  It just seems like CGC made an exception to their own rules for grading comic books for no real good reason here other than to satisfy a particular artist's taste, and perhaps enhance the collectibilty of their art and that is really discouraging.  With so many collectors trusting CGC's judgment when it comes to their comics something like this casts doubt into their thought process and makes at least me question the integrity of the process.

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Iconic1s

[DELTA 62]

13 hours ago, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

These do look amazing,  but I am a little confused by these. So he cuts the images out of the existing covers, but the still grade universal 9.8? Kind of surprised as this technically removes parts of the cover , so shouldn't this get the dreaded Green/Yellow to be a 9.8 or take a grade hit for missing pieces of covers?

Again do not get me wrong , I do really think these are awesome. Congratulations!!

@ivdyer

My understanding is that because this is the artist's technique then it qualifies for Signature Series and is not dinged in grade because of the artist's method.  Much like the artist who burns his art into the cover.  That is technically damaging the cover as well but because that is the method of art it is not downgraded.  I hope this makes sense.

[ivdyer]

1 hour ago, Iconic1s said:

I'm not familiar with the licensed Marvel die cut covers but if they are anything like the die cut cover below then I think CGC made a bad call here.  The below die cut process was part of the manufacture of this book.  In the case of the SS cut out book an artist has removed pieces of the book at their own discretion and altered the book from its original state.  It's no longer anywhere near what it would have had to be to earn a 9.8 Universal grade (minus the signature of course).  As much as I want to, I just can't wrap my mind around this not leading it to be a Qualified Label.

Again, really neat work and I actually wouldn't mind having a couple of these with my preferred characters, but I wouldn't expect them to be anything but Qualified under CGC's own grading criteria.  It has become art more than it is a comic book at this point; the problem is that this happens to be in a comic book holder with a grade (a high grade that many books can't attain) assigned to a comic while also being allowed to miss parts.  Actually NG (coverless or partial comics) may be the appropriate way to go for these books at this point for all we know.  It just seems like CGC made an exception to their own rules for grading comic books for no real good reason here other than to satisfy a particular artist's taste, and perhaps enhance the collectibilty of their art and that is really discouraging.  With so many collectors trusting CGC's judgment when it comes to their comics something like this casts doubt into their thought process and makes at least me question the integrity of the process.

 

I will agree to disagree with you on this one and fall back on/trust the decision made by CGC SS to change their stance.  This is an art form and should be graded as such. 

I also do not want to derail this thread with semantics, let us appreciate the art which is what this thread is for. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by ivdyer

[Iconic1s]

Would love to see one of those burnt covers.  Perhaps not every form of art is appropriate for a SS comic book and maybe that should be Qualified as well.  CGC should remember that they grade comic books and any art that damages the book itself should reflect in the grade of that book.  It's not semantics, it's literally in a comic book holder graded by a third party comic book grading company, which leads one to believe the grade is assigned to the book; it's not a subjective opinion on whether the art itself is worthy.

I don't think this is derailing any thread... the books were posted and they resulted in a little bit of debate.  It's healthy to offer differing views on stuff like this because CGC doesn't always get it right the first time.

[DELTA 62]

21 minutes ago, Iconic1s said:

Would love to see one of those burnt covers.  Perhaps not every form of art is appropriate for a SS comic book and maybe that should be Qualified as well.  CGC should remember that they grade comic books and any art that damages the book itself should reflect in the grade of that book.  It's not semantics, it's literally in a comic book holder graded by a third party comic book grading company, which leads one to believe the grade is assigned to the book; it's not a subjective opinion on whether the art itself is worthy.

I don't think this is derailing any thread... the books were posted and they resulted in a little bit of debate.  It's healthy to offer differing views on stuff like this because CGC doesn't always get it right the first time.

Hmm... so, taking a sharpie (i.e. signature) to a comic is ok though?  One could argue that's damage. 

Art is in the eye of the beholder.  And in this case, CGC is the beholder.  And if you disagree with the beholder... that's ok.  But this isn't the thread for those debates.  I agree with @ivdyer.... this thread is for posting sketch covers for all to appreciate.

[Iconic1s]

4 minutes ago, DELTA 62 said:

Hmm... so, taking a sharpie (i.e. signature) to a comic is ok though?  One could argue that's damage. 

Art is in the eye of the beholder.  And in this case, CGC is the beholder.  And if you disagree with the beholder... that's ok.  But this isn't the thread for those debates.  I agree with @ivdyer.... this thread is for posting sketch covers for all to appreciate.

Well, to be technical then it’s the ‘2020 SKETCH COVER MEGA THREAD’ not the ‘burnt up, cut up with an exacto knife mega thread.’  

I get the message though... 

[ivdyer]

7 minutes ago, DELTA 62 said:

Hmm... so, taking a sharpie (i.e. signature) to a comic is ok though?  One could argue that's damage. 

Art is in the eye of the beholder.  And in this case, CGC is the beholder.  And if you disagree with the beholder... that's ok.  But this isn't the thread for those debates.  I agree with @ivdyer.... this thread is for posting sketch covers for all to appreciate.

Agreed

[ivdyer]

35 minutes ago, Iconic1s said:

Would love to see one of those burnt covers.  Perhaps not every form of art is appropriate for a SS comic book and maybe that should be Qualified as well.  CGC should remember that they grade comic books and any art that damages the book itself should reflect in the grade of that book.  It's not semantics, it's literally in a comic book holder graded by a third party comic book grading company, which leads one to believe the grade is assigned to the book; it's not a subjective opinion on whether the art itself is worthy.

I don't think this is derailing any thread... the books were posted and they resulted in a little bit of debate.  It's healthy to offer differing views on stuff like this because CGC doesn't always get it right the first time.

You can start a different thread for this debate, I will not be taking part however.  

[DELTA 62]

4 minutes ago, Iconic1s said:

Well, to be technical then it’s the ‘2020 SKETCH COVER MEGA THREAD’ not the ‘burnt up, cut up with an exacto knife mega thread.’  

I get the message though... 

Well... those different forms of art were done on actual blank sketch covers so they do qualify for this thread.  

[ivdyer]

40 minutes ago, Iconic1s said:

Would love to see one of those burnt covers.  Perhaps not every form of art is appropriate for a SS comic book and maybe that should be Qualified as well.  CGC should remember that they grade comic books and any art that damages the book itself should reflect in the grade of that book.  It's not semantics, it's literally in a comic book holder graded by a third party comic book grading company, which leads one to believe the grade is assigned to the book; it's not a subjective opinion on whether the art itself is worthy.

I don't think this is derailing any thread... the books were posted and they resulted in a little bit of debate.  It's healthy to offer differing views on stuff like this because CGC doesn't always get it right the first time.

Here is a burned cover....

[Iconic1s]

7 minutes ago, ivdyer said:

Here is a burned cover....

Thank you for sharing!  I know we’re not debating anymore but this one seems different to me as you could look at the ‘burn’ effect no differently that applying paint/markers etc.  Nothing was taken away from the book.  Very nicely done and I appreciate you posting it!  Take care!

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

7 hours ago, ivdyer said:

I thought the same but apparently CGC SS has changed its stance or at least for this artist as he is submitting these himself directly to CGC 

Either way congratulations on these amazing looking pieces of art! 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

2 hours ago, ivdyer said:

Here is a burned cover....

Another amazing piece and completely different form of art. I really like this one as well.

(Now I am wanting to ask the completely impolite question of what this burnt and the cut out covers cost to commission)

Regardless these are all just awesome. 

[ivdyer]

8 minutes ago, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Another amazing piece and completely different form of art. I really like this one as well.

(Now I am wanting to ask the completely impolite question of what this burnt and the cut out covers cost to commission)

Regardless these are all just awesome. 

Anywhere from $100-500 depending on figures, background, etc...these were extremely affordable and both artists are very easy to communicate with 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

1 minute ago, ivdyer said:

Anywhere from $100-500 depending on figures, background, etc...these were extremely affordable and both artists are very easy to communicate with 

Thank you. Was hesitant asking,  as I see some of these that I really like, but am sure I  more than likely can not afford.  Just like seeing some of the amazing Ash Gonzales sketches..  I keep meaning to reach out to ask him, but at the same time I have that feeling  I really could not afford him either and do not want to waste his time. Thank you for this information and sharing your incredible covers!

[ivdyer]

Very fitting that these showed up today courtesy of @Par2ch....this is the way

[RayJr]

48 minutes ago, ivdyer said:

Very fitting that these showed up today courtesy of @Par2ch....this is the way

Those are straight badass! Congrats brother 

[Webhead2018]

So what's the best way to contact that ash guy?

[ivdyer]

1 hour ago, Webhead2018 said:

So what's the best way to contact that ash guy?

Via IG at fineartbyash or his email ashgonzo@gmail.com. Tell him Charles Dyer sent you