What art/artists have dropped in popularity? 0

[John E.]

9 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

That comment about Ross's work pretty much summarizes my thinking as well. I would rather have lesser drafting skills and more heart. Heart is what gets the blood pumping, not just pretty prictures. 

I think that is what also bothers me about Dillon (on a much lesser price scale). Nice imagry, but no blood and guts.

Alex Ross's covers during the "All-New Marvel" phase didn't do much for me. But I really like his covers on The Immortal Hulk. Also, he has a neat 8-page Spider-Man story in his Marvelocity coffee table book. I think that's the stuff that would sell in an instant. (I have his Marvels Epilogue book but I haven't even cracked it open )

[Blastaar]

Mark Bagley is much more affordable today for reasons I can’t explain. Would imagine over time the arrow can only go up. 

[jjonahjameson11]

40 minutes ago, Blastaar said:

Mark Bagley is much more affordable today for reasons I can’t explain. Would imagine over time the arrow can only go up. 

I’ll have to disagree with you when it comes to prices on his ASM artwork and his Miles Morales Spidey artwork.  They continue to rise.

Perhaps you’re referring to his New Warriors art prices?  I don’t follow the New Warriors stuff but others on this board do.  Perhaps they’d be willing to chime in?

[John E.]

[Blastaar]

Interesting.....I see pages from his FF run go for an average of say $125 and USM (without Spidey in costume) go for roughly the same. Now hero splashes are closer to $300 plus but I would say that is much lower than his contemporaries…..right?

Edited January 5, 2020 by Blastaar

[eewwnuk]

I dont think the issue with alex ross has to do with popularity or demand.  Its more of an asking price issue with his work. 

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

I'm an Alex Ross fan. Admittedly, I prefer his mid-nineties stuff over his 2000s work, with few exceptions. I've said before I follow his market. I think the Alex Ross market is an odd beast. He's a cover artist 99% of the time with new Marvel covers starting at $20K. Not a lot of buyers at that price point; but his BEST NEW covers do sell at $25K+. Nonetheless, to me, those prices give the impression that no one wants to collect him. If he did more interiors (and if the interiors he does complete were more readily available...) I think he would garner more interest among collectors.

Otherwise, his early prelims sell well and quick. Give or take a year ago Comiclink sold a Kingdom Come T-shirt prelim for $1100 and a few months ago Burkey sold it for ~$2.5K quickly. CL also sold that Kingdom Come Chapter divider for about $3K (it's on auction again), which was a lot more than what the initial seller wanted it for. A B/B+ Marvels page sold on eBay last fall (to the Brothers) for $4250. Hans K. quickly sold a Superman prelim for $3K. So I do think the demand and popularity is there...for the reasonable stuff.

I will concede that Alex Ross is missing from many good collections on CAF. That might say something too. Oh, and the naysayers here on the board.

P.S. If anyone has a Marvels page they want to dump before his investment plummets, talk to me!

Just to be clear, he has a high skill set. The work I have seen just doesn't get my juices up. Perhaps other pieces might.

 

[jjonahjameson11]

12 minutes ago, Blastaar said:

Interesting.....I see pages from his FF run go for an average of say $125 and USM (without Spidey in costume) go for roughly the same. Now hero splashes are closer to $300 plus but I would say that is much lower than his contemporaries…..right?

For the pages you’ve described, $125 for a USM page without Spidey seems about right, keeping in mind the number of issues of USM he illustrated and the availability thereof.

i can’t speak to his work/prices for his FF Pages as I do not keep an eye on that title 

[grapeape]

2 hours ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

I'm an Alex Ross fan. Admittedly, I prefer his mid-nineties stuff over his 2000s work, with few exceptions. I've said before I follow his market. I think the Alex Ross market is an odd beast. He's a cover artist 99% of the time with new Marvel covers starting at $20K. Not a lot of buyers at that price point; but his BEST NEW covers do sell at $25K+. Nonetheless, to me, those prices give the impression that no one wants to collect him. If he did more interiors (and if the interiors he does complete were more readily available...) I think he would garner more interest among collectors.

Otherwise, his early prelims sell well and quick. Give or take a year ago Comiclink sold a Kingdom Come T-shirt prelim for $1100 and a few months ago Burkey sold it for ~$2.5K quickly. CL also sold that Kingdom Come Chapter divider for about $3K (it's on auction again), which was a lot more than what the initial seller wanted it for. A B/B+ Marvels page sold on eBay last fall (to the Brothers) for $4250. Hans K. quickly sold a Superman prelim for $3K. So I do think the demand and popularity is there...for the reasonable stuff.

I will concede that Alex Ross is missing from many good collections on CAF. That might say something too. Oh, and the naysayers here on the board.

P.S. If anyone has a Marvels page they want to dump before his investment plummets, talk to me!

Yes!

Great examples with actual data.

items under 5 K very brisk movers.

Ross has to hold the line on his art. That’s the game. Price is established. He (his rep) will protect that price point even if inventory sits. No deals there. 
Jay Ollie gave great examples of affordable and in my opinion personally desirable art pieces. 

My man Jay OE has pinpointed the pulse. Many of us admire Alex Ross. 20 K feels like buying a membership into an exclusive country club. As Bob Dylan once sang, “it ain’t me babe.” 
 

Yes Marvels....I foolishly let a great Ross Surfer pass around 5 k early 2000 went to $7500 then $20K. Now Marvels has blood, sweat and Ross passion. If anyone finds two pages....that’s one for Jay and one for Grape. 
                                       

[John E.]

I’m having a philosophical crisis as to what “decline in popularity” in the original art hobby means. Do we mean past peak popularity?

When I became active on the boards 5 years ago the talk about Neal Adams pages would not stop. No one talks about Adams pages on a regular basis today. Some of Neal’s comments have chafed ppl today too. So has his popularity declined (maybe as a personality in the hobby)? Are his vintage pages on the decline in price and demand today? 🤷‍♂️

Also, 3 years ago, lots of talk about the Miller DKR market when it was heating up. Then I remember a “flip” took a bath. The talk stopped like the party was over. Is this a decline in the popularity in DKR? 🤷‍♂️
 

Same with Watchmen. Watchmen page pops up on auction and there’s no discussion about it. Does that mean there’s a decline in popularity? 🤷‍♂️

Tricky question.  

[NC101]

3 minutes ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

I’m having a philosophical crisis as to what “decline in popularity” in the original art hobby means. Do we mean past peak popularity?

When I became active on the boards 5 years ago the talk about Neal Adams pages would not stop. No one talks about Adams pages on a regular basis today. Some of Neal’s comments have chafed ppl today too. So has his popularity declined (maybe as a personality in the hobby)? Are his vintage pages on the decline in price and demand today? 🤷‍♂️

Also, 3 years ago, lots of talk about the Miller DKR market when it was heating up. Then I remember a “flip” took a bath. The talk stopped like the party was over. Is this a decline in the popularity in DKR? 🤷‍♂️
 

Same with Watchmen. Watchmen page pops up on auction and there’s no discussion about it. Does that mean there’s a decline in popularity? 🤷‍♂️

Tricky question.  

I meant it more in the sense of the Neal Adams example, like artists that at one point people talked about a lot, the way I hear some people talk about maybe Daniel Warren Johnson today (not that I think he'll drop in popularity or anything, just as an example of someone who gets talked about a lot) or work that was once really coveted but has less of an audience now. That said, any example or way of interpreting it is interesting imo.

[eewwnuk]

Think it depends on what you view to be the source of chatter for pieces.  There's so many venues for discussion now that im sure plenty of people are still talking about these in demand pieces - just probably not where they used to talk.  

[John E.]

18 minutes ago, NewCollector101 said:

I meant it more in the sense of the Neal Adams example, like artists that at one point people talked about a lot, the way I hear some people talk about maybe Daniel Warren Johnson today (not that I think he'll drop in popularity or anything, just as an example of someone who gets talked about a lot) or work that was once really coveted but has less of an audience now. That said, any example or way of interpreting it is interesting imo.

First, yes, you are absolutely right in that DWJ gets a lot of talk right now so he’s enjoying a height in popularity. 
 

But right now, conversation around comic art around the hammer price on iconic works such as Batman 251 (Neal Adams!), Egyptian Queen, as well as “key” covers like ASM 100 and other silver age Spidey. Underneath that, I think a lot of buzz revolves around the question of comic art hitting the $1M mark. Steve Ditko has also had a resurgence in popularity. 
 

But does that mean everything else is not poplular. That’s where I see the quandary. 
 

oh but more to your question: I know nothing about this art but apparently Tim Sale Heroes work was really popular at one time and no longer is (maybe I answered my own question). If anyone can speak about the history of Sale Heroes Art I’d love to hear it. 

[delekkerste]

On 1/4/2020 at 2:17 PM, Rick2you2 said:

Declining in popularity is not the same as declining in price. 

I agree.  Carl Barks (everyone under 40:  "who?") surely is not as popular now as he used to be, but, the 3 AARP members still supporting his art prices means that prices do not appear to have fallen at all (quite the contrary).  

BWS's '70s works, including Conan, are clearly softening in popularity.  When I started collecting OA in late 2002, BWS Conan used to be a solid blue chip staple, and every serious broad-based OA collection had to have a good example.  There's no way on earth you can argue that is still the case in 2020.  Similarly, I've had numerous arguments with my friend who's a big Jeff Jones collector - outside of the GoT cover that he did (the exorbitant final price of which had 99% to do with GoT and 1% to do with Jeff Jones), prices have been soft for years.  He argues that the softness is only visible because the best of the best pieces haven't traded hands publicly.  While there is some truth to that, the fact that the market can only support the best of the best examples to me is proof positive that the artist's overall popularity is waning.  Same can be said for Kaluta, unfortunately, of whom I am a fan.  

This is going to be a shocker, but, I'll even say that Jack Kirby's popularity is probably flattening out or even starting to wane a bit.   The reality is that Kirby's OA price appreciation has slowed in recent years; the mostly 50/60-somethings who collect his Silver Age Marvel art (his best stuff) already bid up that market a lot back when they were 30 and 40 somethings, so, the rate of price appreciation has already inflected (2nd derivative) over the past 7-8 years.  Oh sure, put a great cover in like Cap 103 into a Heritage sale and it will do just fine, and some of the lower-end stuff has played catch-up in recent years by those who got priced out of the better stuff in the 2010s.  But, go do a deeper dive into the broad Kirby market and you'd have to say that there have been a fair number of  or disappointing results over the past couple/few years.  And that should not be surprising - while it's nowhere near as severe as with BWS Conan, it's pretty obvious that getting a great Kirby example is no longer considered to be a requirement for many younger collectors.  Even among my age cohort, precisely zero collectors in my close circle of friends are regular Kirby collectors.  Between high prices and changing tastes, I can easily see younger collectors buying, at the very least, LESS Kirby than their forebears.  While this may not be widely obvious now, I think it will be as the years go by.    

[F For Fake]

38 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I agree.  Carl Barks (everyone under 40:  "who?") surely is not as popular now as he used to be, but, the 3 AARP members still supporting his art prices means that prices do not appear to have fallen at all (quite the contrary).  

BWS's '70s works, including Conan, are clearly softening in popularity.  When I started collecting OA in late 2002, BWS Conan used to be a solid blue chip staple, and every serious broad-based OA collection had to have a good example.  There's no way on earth you can argue that is still the case in 2020.  Similarly, I've had numerous arguments with my friend who's a big Jeff Jones collector - outside of the GoT cover that he did (the exorbitant final price of which had 99% to do with GoT and 1% to do with Jeff Jones), prices have been soft for years.  He argues that the softness is only visible because the best of the best pieces haven't traded hands publicly.  While there is some truth to that, the fact that the market can only support the best of the best examples to me is proof positive that the artist's overall popularity is waning.  Same can be said for Kaluta, unfortunately, of whom I am a fan.  

This is going to be a shocker, but, I'll even say that Jack Kirby's popularity is probably flattening out or even starting to wane a bit.   The reality is that Kirby's OA price appreciation has slowed in recent years; the mostly 50/60-somethings who collect his Silver Age Marvel art (his best stuff) already bid up that market a lot back when they were 30 and 40 somethings, so, the rate of price appreciation has already inflected (2nd derivative) over the past 7-8 years.  Oh sure, put a great cover in like Cap 103 into a Heritage sale and it will do just fine, and some of the lower-end stuff has played catch-up in recent years by those who got priced out of the better stuff in the 2010s.  But, go do a deeper dive into the broad Kirby market and you'd have to say that there have been a fair number of  or disappointing results over the past couple/few years.  And that should not be surprising - while it's nowhere near as severe as with BWS Conan, it's pretty obvious that getting a great Kirby example is no longer considered to be a requirement for many younger collectors.  Even among my age cohort, precisely zero collectors in my close circle of friends are regular Kirby collectors.  Between high prices and changing tastes, I can easily see younger collectors buying, at the very least, LESS Kirby than their forebears.  While this may not be widely obvious now, I think it will be as the years go by.    

Works for me, maybe I can afford a Kirby before I die! Huzzah!

[aokartman]

F For Fake said ..."Works for me, maybe I can afford a Kirby before I die! Huzzah!"

I'm not sure if you are kidding here.  But, I wanted a Kirby in the 1990s when I was 

buying comic art.

I had missed out on some chances, then I picked up a Captain Victory page.

When a Kamandi page came up, I took the plunge at $400, but 

the Captain Victory had to go.

That's as far as I got, and I'm happy with my Kamandi.

You might find some nice Kirby bargains on lesser characters, 

so keep an eye peeled.

David

[Rick2you2]

2 hours ago, aokartman said:

F For Fake said ..."Works for me, maybe I can afford a Kirby before I die! Huzzah!"

I'm not sure if you are kidding here.  But, I wanted a Kirby in the 1990s when I was 

buying comic art.

I had missed out on some chances, then I picked up a Captain Victory page.

When a Kamandi page came up, I took the plunge at $400, but 

the Captain Victory had to go.

That's as far as I got, and I'm happy with my Kamandi.

You might find some nice Kirby bargains on lesser characters, 

so keep an eye peeled.

David

Frankly, I think Kirby’s work is often overpriced, as well as being less appreciated than it used to be. Yes, Kirby was a talented artist, and yes, he could do excellent work, but much of his beloved Marvel stuff looks rushed and has mistakes in it (how many fingers did the Thing have?). I was also never a fan of his “blocky” look. What surprises me is how comparatively low Eisner’s work is (and it isn’t cheap). 

[Blastaar]

Outside of covers perhaps Land?

[alxjhnsn]

On 1/6/2020 at 2:38 PM, delekkerste said:

it's pretty obvious that getting a great Kirby example is no longer considered to be a requirement for many younger collectors.  Even among my age cohort, precisely zero collectors in my close circle of friends are regular Kirby collectors.  Between high prices and changing tastes, I can easily see younger collectors buying, at the very least, LESS Kirby than their forebears.  While this may not be widely obvious now, I think it will be as the years go by.    

I'm 63. He's not on my list.

My area of interest in Kirby is very narrow:

• A Thor page set in Asgard or
• A New Gods page from The Pact or other flashback (yes, I did buy the IDW AE). 

Ditto with Ditko, my area of interest is quite narrow (The Creeper).

I could afford something, but it's not a high priority.

Edited January 7, 2020 by alxjhnsn

[artdealer]

On 1/5/2020 at 2:43 PM, Jay Olie Espy said:

First, yes, you are absolutely right in that DWJ gets a lot of talk right now so he’s enjoying a height in popularity. 
 

But right now, conversation around comic art around the hammer price on iconic works such as Batman 251 (Neal Adams!), Egyptian Queen, as well as “key” covers like ASM 100 and other silver age Spidey. Underneath that, I think a lot of buzz revolves around the question of comic art hitting the $1M mark. Steve Ditko has also had a resurgence in popularity. 
 

But does that mean everything else is not poplular. That’s where I see the quandary. 
 

oh but more to your question: I know nothing about this art but apparently Tim Sale Heroes work was really popular at one time and no longer is (maybe I answered my own question). If anyone can speak about the history of Sale Heroes Art I’d love to hear it. 

I was Tim Sale’s agent at the time of Heroes.

Tim held back the art, as we wanted to create anticipation for the art. That kinda backfired as the 2nd season progressed, and buyers were not so interested in the art.

It was at that time I started selling the originals. While there was no great rush, I did sell a number of originals, though for not as much as we had originally hoped for. 

Once the series was cancelled, that was pretty much the end of Heroes original art sales, at least when I was his agent. 

MI