Why is Spiderman #129 now a mega key comic ? 1 1

[jjonahjameson11]

15 minutes ago, the blob said:

Maybe it was growing up in New York City in the 70s I was eager to admire a vigilante type. We needed a few.

Well, the real-world environment was certainly rife with increasingly  violent crimes in the 70’s, and it felt as though law enforcement was always a step or two behind, hence the rise of violent, urba-centric vigilantes such as Mack Bolan’s The Executioner and Charles Bronson’s Death Wish Series.  Heck, even the cops got down and dirty as seen in The Dirty Harry movies.  In this environment, The Punisher was born as a reflection of the times.

[the blob]

2 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Well, the real-world environment was certainly rife with increasingly  violent crimes in the 70’s, and it felt as though law enforcement was always a step or two behind, hence the rise of violent, urba-centric vigilantes such as Mack Bolan’s The Executioner and Charles Bronson’s Death Wish Series.  Heck, even the cops got down and dirty as seen in The Dirty Harry movies.  In this environment, The Punisher was born as a reflection of the times.

With that said, I can see the problem for marvel scripting the series. Is just going to kill some new gangsters each month? By the late 80s they said "sure, monthly killings!".. In 1982 probably not ready for that 

[RockMyAmadeus]

And for comparison: the Jackal, Doc Warren's alter ego, first appeared in the same issue. The Jackal would then appear 10 times over the next year and a half before his death in #149 (#129, 130, 139, 140, 141, 143, 146, 147, 148, 149.)

As for Punisher...he appeared in #129, then again in #135 (#134 last page cameo)...then he'd disappear from ASM for 2+ years (#161-162), then another two issue appearance a year later (#174-175), and then disappeared for another 2+ years (#201-202), then he appeared the next year in ASM Annual #15...and then vanished from the pages of ASM for 6 years (#284-285.)

9 appearances in 12+ years. 

 

[jjonahjameson11]

5 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

And for comparison: the Jackal, Doc Warren's alter ego, first appeared in the same issue. The Jackal would then appear 10 times over the next year and a half before his death in #149 (#129, 130, 139, 140, 141, 143, 146, 147, 148, 149.)

As for Punisher...he appeared in #129, then again in #135 (#134 last page cameo)...then he'd disappear from ASM for 2+ years (#161-162), then another two issue appearance a year later (#174-175), and then disappeared for another 2+ years (#201-202), then he appeared the next year in ASM Annual #15...and then vanished from the pages of ASM for 6 years (#284-285.)

9 appearances in 12+ years. 

 

Yeah, but it took forever for Miles Warren (1st app = asm 31) to be revealed as the Jackal (asm 129)

[RockMyAmadeus]

43 minutes ago, the blob said:

Marvel not understanding they had a character worth pushing doesn't mean kids and angry teens didn't like the character. Marvel pushed all sorts of terrible characters and titles that failed. Wolverine had a very popular mini and was obviously very popular and how many years did it take before he got a title? I think the vigilante nature of the character(s) scared marvel off.. They probably didn't want parents groups or the CCA dumping on them (and we were in Reagan's America..), which is odd because vigilante movies were popular, but rated R, etc... But they probably wanted to be safe with all ages comics. Anyway, my fondness for the character and my brother's and friends' is anecdotal, of course. We were all victims of street crime and wished someone was out there murdering criminals (coincidentally, the Deatbwish apartment was only a few blocks from where I grew up). Maybe kids in Kansas couldn't identify.

I've not suggested that no one liked the character. Virtually every character published is going to find some sort of fanbase. There were people who liked Man-Thing (who appeared regularly throughout the 70s.) There were people who liked Deathlok. There were people who liked Herbie the Robot, until he turned against the FF, that bucket o' bolts traito...ahem...

But, broadly, Punisher didn't catch the public's imagination because he was substantially ahead of his time. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by RockMyAmadeus

[Aweandlorder]

in comparison, Colin Nash didn’t make a single appearance since the beginning of this thread

[Gotham Kid]

ASM 129 'mega key'

Edited January 20, 2020 by Gotham Kid

[RockMyAmadeus]

5 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Yeah, but it took forever for Miles Warren (1st app = asm 31) to be revealed as the Jackal (asm 129)

Sure, because Warren was an ancillary, regular human character until Conway took over the title. 

[the blob]

I'm curious what the marvel brass had to say about it. I have read the reluctance re: wolverine was his lethality. I assume frank caused the same issues. I will be honest, I liked him as a spidey baddy and I liked the Netflix show, but I was never into him solo comics and never watched the movies. I guess I was over the vigilante murder phase. 

[Logan510]

1 hour ago, the blob said:

I'm curious what the marvel brass had to say about it. I have read the reluctance re: wolverine was his lethality. I assume frank caused the same issues. I will be honest, I liked him as a spidey baddy and I liked the Netflix show, but I was never into him solo comics and never watched the movies. I guess I was over the vigilante murder phase. 

Personally I enjoyed the first mini series and his two appearances in the black and white mags, but the character didn’t resonate for me until Miller wrote him. Before that he was just a semi interesting character with a cool costume.

I bought several issues of his first regular series but I quickly lost interest in it.

[kav]

Remember Iron Enforcer in Stan Lee's "who wants to be a superhero"?  He said he kills bad guys and Stan said superheroes dont kill people-I was like um what abt Punisher bluh?

[shadroch]

Mercy bullets.

 

[kav]

4 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Mercy bullets.

 

Vitamin enriched bullets.

[Logan510]

57 minutes ago, kav said:

Remember Iron Enforcer in Stan Lee's "who wants to be a superhero"?  He said he kills bad guys and Stan said superheroes dont kill people-I was like um what abt Punisher bluh?

I never considered Punisher a "superhero". 

[porcupine48]

8 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

And for comparison: the Jackal, Doc Warren's alter ego, first appeared in the same issue. The Jackal would then appear 10 times over the next year and a half before his death in #149 (#129, 130, 139, 140, 141, 143, 146, 147, 148, 149.)

As for Punisher...he appeared in #129, then again in #135 (#134 last page cameo)...then he'd disappear from ASM for 2+ years (#161-162), then another two issue appearance a year later (#174-175), and then disappeared for another 2+ years (#201-202), then he appeared the next year in ASM Annual #15...and then vanished from the pages of ASM for 6 years (#284-285.)

9 appearances in 12+ years. 

 

Everyone always forgets this super great comic(still a bargain imho)

OK,okay,it's NOT ASM)

 

(

(Except Ken Aldred,I know he loves this comic too)

[gaz973]

On 1/20/2020 at 7:48 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

And for comparison: the Jackal, Doc Warren's alter ego, first appeared in the same issue. The Jackal would then appear 10 times over the next year and a half before his death in #149 (#129, 130, 139, 140, 141, 143, 146, 147, 148, 149.)

As for Punisher...he appeared in #129, then again in #135 (#134 last page cameo)...then he'd disappear from ASM for 2+ years (#161-162), then another two issue appearance a year later (#174-175), and then disappeared for another 2+ years (#201-202), then he appeared the next year in ASM Annual #15...and then vanished from the pages of ASM for 6 years (#284-285.)

9 appearances in 12+ years. 

 

I believe that Giant Size Spider Man # 4 featured Punisher in the time between his appearances in # 135 and # 161. He also appeared in PPSM # 81 and 82 in 1983 which broke up the gap between the ASM Annual # 15 and ASM # 284. While not in the premier Spider Man title, they were at least Spider Man title appearances which makes it sound a little less sparce around that period.

 

Edit, gaah I didn't even see Jimmers mention of GSSM # 4 till after I posted. 😳

Edited January 23, 2020 by gaz973

[porcupine48]

@gaz973 still a fine post!And hiya,seems its been a while mate! 

[RUSSIAN BEAR]

In my home country Russia we loved him because he broke the rules. A very masculine character. I remember reading old Punisher comic books in Moscow and my teacher catching me reading them and then taking my Punisher comic books from me and calling it American propaganda. Also that teacher told my parents about me reading Punisher comic books and I got in trouble. To me the Punisher will always be cool.

[RUSSIAN BEAR]

yeah I love the Punisher.

                

Edited January 23, 2020 by RUSSIAN BEAR

[William-James88]

On 1/17/2020 at 10:37 AM, comicginger1789 said:

Yeah ASM #129 has always been a valuable book because people have loved the character since his inception. Personally, I find it weirder to see Moon Knight spiking in popularity because he was never wildly popular but now you see first and early appearances that are very expensive (back in the early 2000s, his solo app in Marvel Spotlight was maybe a $5-10 book). 

 

With Moon Knight, it's speculation. We are seeing the same thing with Shang Chi. Since previous books went up in demand for people to resell due to movies in the recent past (both FF 52 and Aquaman 29 come to mind), the fact that there is buzz surrounding him means people want to get that book in case it goes up. And since everyone wants it at the same time, the price goes up. But I don't think that has to do with them liking the character more now than they did before. It's just speculation on their behalf. Things can quiet down later as it did for Daredevil 168, Preacher 1 and Marvel Premier 15. 

 

TO answer the original question in this thread, ASM 129 was always key, it's the first appearance of a popular Marvel hero. Plus, the spider-man title is the most collected title in terms of people completing the whole run, so you get a demand on two fronts.