kav Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 36 minutes ago, JollyComics said: Great concept! How's about rarest, hardest, scarce or extreme rare? Good point. I mean Green Giant is extremely rare, yet it does not fit the definition of a key book. I think by their nature key books cannot be rare. They are either the first app of someone major or a book that was known enough to go viral like attack of the snowmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozentundraguy Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, JollyComics said: Maybe we should use CGC Census to see how rarest the books are. BTW, there are 19 graded copies World of Mystery #1 on the census. What was the total circulation for this copy? That is one tough question. I know there is a web site that gives the circulation of comic books from the 1960's. Of course this book is from the 50s'. The other odd thing I have noticed in many of my books, is the statement of ownership and circulation often does not list the circulation. 1950's war comics and kav 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCOComics Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 I think it's hard to quantify key issues with dollars amounts. All the early Marvel Mystery comics are worth over $1k, but I wouldn't necessarily call them all keys. Don't get me wrong, I would love to own them, but I feel like the value has to be coupled with something significant. A first appearance or first issue. frozentundraguy and kav 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senormac Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Supply and demand !!! kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Cichlid Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, KCOComics said: I think it's hard to quantify key issues with dollars amounts. All the early Marvel Mystery comics are worth over $1k, but I wouldn't necessarily call them all keys. Don't get me wrong, I would love to own them, but I feel like the value has to be coupled with something significant. A first appearance or first issue. I'll agree with this. You would have to measure keyness like they measure mountains. There is strict elevation and then there is topographic prominence. For example, Pikes Peak is, I believe, the most prominent mountain in CO, but it is around the 20th in strict elevation. To get prominence you would have to take a ratio of the value of that book over the average value of the 10 or so books before and after it. The higher the ratio would correspond to a key with more prominence. The most prominent keys, by this measure, would be books like IH 181, BA 12, NM 98, etc. Basically, all relatively modern books where surrounding issues are very common or otherwise insignificant. Keys that would fail to prominent by that metric would be issues like ASM 3, 4, 6, 9, 13, 14, 15. All are high in strict elevation (price) , but the prices dont jump out at you when juxtaposed to each other. kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senormac Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Von Cichlid said: I'll agree with this. You would have to measure keyness like they measure mountains. There is strict elevation and then there is topographic prominence. For example, Pikes Peak is, I believe, the most prominent mountain in CO, but it is around the 20th in strict elevation. To get prominence you would have to take a ratio of the value of that book over the average value of the 10 or so books before and after it. The higher the ratio would correspond to a key with more prominence. The most prominent keys, by this measure, would be books like IH 181, BA 12, NM 98, etc. Basically, all relatively modern books where surrounding issues are very common or otherwise insignificant. Keys that would fail to prominent by that metric would be issues like ASM 3, 4, 6, 9, 13, 14, 15. All are high in strict elevation (price) , but the prices dont jump out at you when juxtaposed to each other. This would be the perfect place for a yodeling video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Cichlid Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Senormac said: This would be the perfect place for a yodeling video Hey, I like mountains. What can I say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senormac Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Von Cichlid said: Hey, I like mountains. What can I say? Say nothing.... but yodel it and you win a NO PRIZE !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 5 hours ago, kav said: A book is not key based solely at all on value. Fixed. [/thread] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senormac Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Lazyboy said: Fixed. [/thread] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 5 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said: I wonder where the term "key" came from? As in "key to the city?" "Key to unlocking pertinent stories?" Of so maybe 1st appearances aren't all that apply? https://www.dictionary.com/browse/key #34, the adjective. ADAMANTIUM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senormac Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Perhaps, key to understanding where this "costumed hero" came from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason4 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 What about "cosmic keys"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCOComics Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 7 hours ago, Von Cichlid said: I'll agree with this. You would have to measure keyness like they measure mountains. There is strict elevation and then there is topographic prominence. For example, Pikes Peak is, I believe, the most prominent mountain in CO, but it is around the 20th in strict elevation. To get prominence you would have to take a ratio of the value of that book over the average value of the 10 or so books before and after it. The higher the ratio would correspond to a key with more prominence. The most prominent keys, by this measure, would be books like IH 181, BA 12, NM 98, etc. Basically, all relatively modern books where surrounding issues are very common or otherwise insignificant. Keys that would fail to prominent by that metric would be issues like ASM 3, 4, 6, 9, 13, 14, 15. All are high in strict elevation (price) , but the prices dont jump out at you when juxtaposed to each other. I agree with everything you said.... Only, I see ASM 3, 6 and 14 as keys because they introduce major villains... Even if the value doesn't rise significantly in comparison to the issues before and after it. Said another way, I think there is a certain level of subjectivity in determining what is a "key". kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoomanfoo Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 I’m glad somebody has started this topic. I used to think of keys as the standard. Giant Size x men 1 even class of 68 Iron man, Sub mariner #1. Theres been many new keys since all this movie stuff and rare variants. I think it’s time to look at keys differently and this will help the stubborn. kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCOComics Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 In my mind, this is how I break up silver age Marvel keys. Maybe others disagree, but this is how I generally categorize different levels of keys. AF15 /FF1 and IH 1 are the holy grails. Valuable and tough to get (although with enough money any of us could buy any of them right now). Super keys: JIM83, TOS39, TTA27, ASM1, Xmen1, Avengers 1, Daredevil 1. Keys: FF48, FF5, ASM3 , 6, 14, Avengers 4.... This list goes on and on, but those are examples And even though FF5 or avengers 4 might be more valuable than Daredevil 1, I still consider DD1 a super key... Maybe I've got a thing for the yellow suit! kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmilwaukee6er Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 I thought the initial discussion over the term was that there is no such thing as a mega key. It's just key. And that key, like grail, is overused in today's hobby to describe rando $50 books, app clickbait, or individual agenda books. Ken Aldred 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Kid Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Earlier this year I bought a 40K book. It is by no means a "key" imo. Just a book that has low census numbers. 1950's war comics, Lazyboy, Ken Aldred and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 *Of course* there's different levels of "key." For instance, no one will ever convince me that the first appearance of Squirrel Girl is on the same level as the first appearance of Wolverine. Likewise, the death of Gwen Stacy was more important - thus more "key" - than dozens of Bronze age first appearances, even if it lags behind them in value. jason4 and kav 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Gotham Kid said: Earlier this year I bought a 40K book. It is by no means a "key" imo. Just a book that has low census numbers. Exactly. Different scale, but I once owned a really nice copy of Batman # 5. Expensive, but absolutely nothing key about the issue. Gotham Kid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
