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GRADED vs RAW
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Started by mike devon,

29 posts in this topic

mike devon

mike devon

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4 minutes ago, Mr. Zipper said:

Depends on the dealer and the book. But very rarely will I pay graded premium pricing for a raw book.

Yeah - I wonder what the criteria is..?  I mean if its visibly very obviously a NM+ then I guess its a pretty safe punt..?  Up at that level there's no room to hide really is there..?  Unless you get it and its been stored next door to a chocolate factory and smells extremely strongly of chocolate - or some such similar misdemeanor :)

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mike devon

mike devon

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3 minutes ago, Ride the Tiger said:

Every book was raw at some point. You must learn what to look for and find reputable sellers. I have only purchased a few graded books and generally prefer the hunt for candidates for slabbing. 

Sure - what I really meant was if you find a raw VNM or mint key would you pay the same as for a graded one..?  I would if I was happy with the condition.

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Point Five

Point Five

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Welcome to the boards! It would be helpful to know the sorts of books you're talking about. If it's a $1K key that you want in a certain grade, having CGC's protection is a great thing. If it's a $50 book and you just want something that looks good, raw is fine.

If you're picky about grades and/or concerned about resale value, 'perfect feedback on ebay' is a pretty low bar to clear. I would scrutinize the photos very carefully, and check other auctions the seller is running to see if the grading seems tight. If the photos are not good enough for you to determine the grades, that's already a potential red flag.

 

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mike devon

mike devon

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4 minutes ago, Point Five said:

Welcome to the boards! It would be helpful to know the sorts of books you're talking about. If it's a $1K key that you want in a certain grade, having CGC's protection is a great thing. If it's a $50 book and you just want something that looks good, raw is fine.

If you're picky about grades and/or concerned about resale value, 'perfect feedback on ebay' is a pretty low bar to clear. I would scrutinize the photos very carefully, and check other auctions the seller is running to see if the grading seems tight. If the photos are not good enough for you to determine the grades, that's already a potential red flag.

 

Hi and thanks for the advice.  I was thinking about up to $3-4000 I think.  And yes you'd need to be careful but I think if good pics and the seller has a lot of perfect feedback isn't that a good signifier.?  Or is there rife passing off of restored stuff..?  If I bought online I'd spot restoration immediately.

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Point Five

Point Five

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Thanks for the link. Geez, not even a back cover photo? And a front cover photo where the top edge is tilted away from us. There's not enough information in the auction to determine the book's grade, and there's a fair chance that's intentional. I'd be worried about trimmed edges as well as color touch. That's a big gamble.

You also have to ask yourself why the seller hasn't gotten the book graded themselves, as if it's a true 9.2 they would be leaving money on the table to sell it raw.

 

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Point Five

Point Five

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Their feedback, even if "100%", suggests they've had a number of returns. Even at a quick glance I see phrases like "Very honest" and "Had an issue [with the book] but seller was awesome". So their MO seems to be to sell raw books at slabbed prices, and refund quickly if a buyer complains. 

 

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mike devon

mike devon

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1 minute ago, Point Five said:

Thanks for the link. Geez, not even a back cover photo? And a front cover photo where the top edge is tilted away from us. There's not enough information in the auction to determine the book's grade, and there's a fair chance that's intentional. I'd be worried about trimmed edges as well as color touch. That's a big gamble.

You also have to ask yourself why the seller hasn't gotten the book graded themselves, as if it's a true 9.2 they would be leaving money on the table to sell it raw.

 

Wise words.  On the other hand he's sold stacks and stacks of high value books and has 100% feedback.  As its ebay I wouldn't rule out taking a punt as you're so well protected.  I'd ask for sharp pics though and also on the resto.  I don't mind a little bit of resto as long as its well done.  If its exceptionally well done it can't be detected at all.  If it can't be detected I think its a moot point..?  I collect old toys and I do little colour touches here and there on boxes.  Sometimes even I can't find where I did it if I come back to it a few days later.

I wouldn't do it myself on a comic though - working on paper is different ball game to card.

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mike devon

mike devon

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1 minute ago, Point Five said:

Their feedback, even if "100%", suggests they've had a number of returns. Even at a quick glance I see phrases like "Very honest" and "Had an issue [with the book] but seller was awesome". So their MO seems to be to sell raw books at slabbed prices, and refund quickly if a buyer complains. 

 

Wow good work.  This has now got me thinking.  Still though that Spidey 50 is melting my brain.  I might ask him for better pics - he could be reading this :)

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Point Five

Point Five

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2 hours ago, mike devon said:

Fab - good honest advice.  Perhaps I'm being a bit like a cat around a christmas tree :)

 (thumbsu

Over the years, we have seen quite a number of infamous ebay scammers sell raw books that appear high grade with similarly angled can't-quite-see-'em photos. Sometimes the books have been cracked out of high grade purple label slabs bought right off ebay, even from the very same account, or they can simply be overgraded in some way. The scammers are adept at lawyering the ebay system to stay afloat. The resto can be subtle (a gently trimmed edge or two, a few dots of color touch, etc), and buyers do not always know enough to spot issues with what they've bought until it's too late. I'm not saying that everyone who's ever sold high grade books raw is a scammer, but in the case of a $3K SA key being sold raw, common sense suggests that the odds are against you. 

 

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thehumantorch

thehumantorch

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8 hours ago, mike devon said:

Yeah - I wonder what the criteria is..?  I mean if its visibly very obviously a NM+ then I guess its a pretty safe punt..?  Up at that level there's no room to hide really is there..?  Unless you get it and its been stored next door to a chocolate factory and smells extremely strongly of chocolate - or some such similar misdemeanor :)

A book that's 'Visibly very obviously a NM+' could be a NM+, or very possibly it's not the grade advertised.  It could be overgraded with defects inside or not readily visible in the auction images, it could be restored, it could be an angled cell phone picture that misrepresents it's grade.

When you're looking at an auction you should ask yourself 'why would they list a book ungraded that would sell for a lot more graded?'

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