How do books with unknown or unseen printing errors get labeled and graded? 0

[theCapraAegagrus]

12 hours ago, BlowUpTheMoon said:

I have tons of respect for you but you know this is not entirely true.  

Lies.

[The Lions Den]

3 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Lies.

 

3 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

16 hours ago, BlowUpTheMoon said:

I have tons of respect for you but you know this is not entirely true.  

Lies.

These things must be handled delicately...  

First, thank you for respecting me; I really appreciate that. And thanks to the "CA" for defending me (I think). 

When I worked at CGC we were trained to grade each cover individually. We also had to enter the grade of each cover into the notes and onto the label as well. Many times, multiple covers will vary significantly in grade, with the outer cover being the lowest and one or more of the interior covers being the highest. Not only that, it's tough to get a good clear look at the spines of the interior covers, so a grader has to be very careful when handling books with multiple covers.

Perhaps you've had an experience that made you think a book with multiple covers wasn't thoroughly inspected by CGC..?  

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, The Lions Den said:

These things must be handled delicately...  

First, thank you for respecting me; I really appreciate that. And thanks to the "CA" for defending me (I think). 

When I worked at CGC we were trained to grade each cover individually. We also had to enter the grade of each cover into the notes and onto the label as well. Many times, multiple covers will vary significantly in grade, with the outer cover being the lowest and one or more of the interior covers being the highest. Not only that, it's tough to get a good clear look at the spines of the interior covers, so a grader has to be very careful when handling books with multiple covers.

Perhaps you've had an experience that made you think a book with multiple covers wasn't thoroughly inspected by CGC..?  

Nope. I was alleging/insinuating that Blowie doesn't respect you.

You do deserve respect, though, IMO. I don't like to get serious or show real emotion in public, though. Only hazing.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

 

2 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

When I worked at CGC we were trained to grade each cover individually.

Grade the whole book, not just the covers. 

 

[The Lions Den]

Well, I stand corrected. This is a rare situation where the page quality dictated the final grade of the book and the book was given a lesser grade because of it. But I'm reasonably sure you understood what my meaning was..?  

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

6 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

Well, I stand corrected. This is a rare situation where the page quality dictated the final grade of the book and the book was given a lesser grade because of it. But I'm reasonably sure you understood what my meaning was..?  

 

It's all good, some things are so random, being iron clad is too difficult, but I get your gist  

Spoiler

 

 

[The Lions Den]

7 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

It's all good, some things are so random, being iron clad is too difficult, but I get your gist  

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

To be honest, giving a book that would otherwise be a 9.6 an 8.5 seems pretty harsh to me...seems like a possible candidate for a re-grade...

[ADAMANTIUM]

Just now, The Lions Den said:

To be honest, giving a book that would otherwise be a 9.6 an 8.5 seems pretty harsh to me...seems like a possible candidate for a re-grade...

I think it's more alarming that the whole book might not be considered...

Not that anyone is insinuating that but, how much pin holes in pages and such factor into grading I have no idea.

My NM 98 which is the 1st book I ever submitted back in 2014, I thought would be in the 9's but came back 7.0, I wasn't familiar with grading enough...

Never did go back to see why a 7.0

But I remember it DID have pin holes in the pages between

 

[BlowUpTheMoon]

23 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

To be honest, giving a book that would otherwise be a 9.6 an 8.5 seems pretty harsh to me...seems like a possible candidate for a re-grade...

It's CGCs policy that no book with Light Tan to Off White pages can be graded above an 8.5.  It's is a harsh policy but I get it.  I did resub it a couple of years after the initial submission and got the same result. 

  

43 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

But I'm reasonably sure you understood what my meaning was..?  

Of course. 

[The Lions Den]

25 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I think it's more alarming that the whole book might not be considered...

Not that anyone is insinuating that but, how much pin holes in pages and such factor into grading I have no idea.

My NM 98 which is the 1st book I ever submitted back in 2014, I thought would be in the 9's but came back 7.0, I wasn't familiar with grading enough...

Never did go back to see why a 7.0

But I remember it DID have pin holes in the pages between

 

Sorry if this thread has gotten off track---I sincerely apologize if it has.

Of course, there are other factors which could result in a book receiving a lower grade even though the cover is in Near Mint condition, such as tears in the pages or multiple chips off the corners of the pages. I do remember books being downgraded quite severely if the page quality was described as slightly brittle as well. And if there's extensive writing or artwork on the pages it can affect the overall grade. 

I'd also be wondering why your book only received a 7.0---there must have been a fairly significant flaw to bring the grade down that far...

Edited January 20, 2020 by The Lions Den

[ADAMANTIUM]

10 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

Sorry if this thread has gotten off track---I sincerely apologize if it has.

Of course, there are other factors which could result in a book receiving a lower grade even though the cover is in Near Mint condition, such as tears in the pages or multiple chips off the corners of the pages. I do remember books being downgraded quite severely if the page quality was described as slightly brittle as well. And if there's extensive writing or artwork on the pages it can affect the overall grade. 

I'd also be wondering why your book only received a 7.0---there must have been a fairly significant flaw to bring the grade down that far...

Ya I don't want to get off track, there must have been something though. If I feel like it I'll pm later or post in spare a grade....with pics

It's still in the slab and submitted through the LCS so no graders notes unless I pay for them I assume, that might be the better option at this point to learn anyways

No worries!

[ADAMANTIUM]

9 minutes ago, FiveForFighting said:

58 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

It's still in the slab and submitted through the LCS so no graders notes unless I pay for them I assume, 

Your LCS should've received the graders' notes for free. Ask him.

ya I might give it a shot! and thanks for the info  The LCS owner is a bit quirky as all us collectors can seem and the sub was 4-5 years ago, I'm not sure I'm brave enough to bother him about it, given he's usually really busy and not much of a people person.

It "shouldn't hurt to ask" though  if I can confirm the grade date etc for him to search. Thankfully I have my own account now and it's set to auto-renew  

[The Lions Den]

2 hours ago, FiveForFighting said:

(Found on Google from this board)

Actually the holes are created by a "Former".

Which would be the piece of equipment at the end of the Press that folds and stacks the printed book into raw untrimmed books that are ready to go to the Bindery.

It uses pins on a "Gripper" to grab the edge of the books, thus creating the little holes you see. These raw books are then taken to the Bindery where they get the cover attached to the body, stapled, and trimmed. The holes are meant to be trimmed off, but if there is any variance in the "press roll" or "bindery trim", they actually fall inside of the trimmed area.

This is a pretty common problem in some comics. The reason it may be more common on a particular book, could be...

1) *Equipment* There is an equipment malfunction that may not severe enough to repair until there is downtime in the schedule. Usually as long as the press keeps printing with no major problems, they keep it running.

2) *Quality Control* That particular book could have been printed by a Pressman that had the pinholes too far out of spec. Thus a good portion of the copies were printed with the holes too far into the live area for the Bindery to trim them out without over trimming the book (Making the book shorter).

3) *Quality Control* The Binder could have the trim depth set too shallow on the edge where the pinholes are. As the problem before, it may be noticed and corrected quickly, or could go unnoticed for hours by an unattentive Bindery Operator. There could be other reasons, but I'd bet the listed ones would be within 99% accuracy. Bottom line...Common production flaw.

Great information.

And that part about keeping the press running until there's downtime in the schedule...welcome to the machine.

[JazzMan]

Just looked at this site - there's no mention about a printing error like this one.  Probably not the end all site, but looking through it, they do have all of the ones I know about.

http://www.recalledcomics.com/VenomLethalProtector1Error.php

 

[Shoomanfoo]

On 1/19/2020 at 9:10 PM, Lethal_Collector said:

I am super curious what CGC will do with this book.  Thanks for taking one for the team and subbing it!

 

Jerome

NP

[The Lions Den]

19 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

You do deserve respect, though, IMO. I don't like to get serious or show real emotion in public, though. Only hazing.

Thank you! I certainly appreciate that.

And to be perfectly honest, my primary intention is to give some insight into the inner workings of CGC, hopefully without sounding too much like a jerk...