RBerman Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 New collector here, just getting my feet wet in the last couple of months. The thread about the fake Shuster got me a little spooked. Last month at the Profiles in History action of "a distinguished collector," I picked up a pin-up purported to be by Kirby of his late (late 80s/early 90s) character Kublak. It came without CoA or details of its origin. The page is 14x7.75 inches; I cropped the white sides off the image below. I assume that at this point it would be impossible to prove that it is Kirby's work, but does anything about it cast doubt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapeape Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 On 1/21/2020 at 8:32 PM, RBerman said: New collector here, just getting my feet wet in the last couple of months. The thread about the fake Shuster got me a little spooked. Last month at the Profiles in History action of "a distinguished collector," I picked up a pin-up purported to be by Kirby of his late (late 80s/early 90s) character Kublak. It came without CoA or details of its origin. The page is 14x7.75 inches; I cropped the white sides off the image below. I assume that at this point it would be impossible to prove that it is Kirby's work, but does anything about it cast doubt? Hang tight I reached out to Genesis West to get more info on this piece. I’m waiting to hear back. Then I’ll share what I find out. grape ape 🍇 + 🦍 RBerman and KirbyJack 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanis Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Not that there’s no risk, but I believe the specialty auction houses do some level of diligence to ensure they don’t list fakes. eBay in the other hand is rife with fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 7 hours ago, grapeape said: Hang tight I reached out to Genesis West to get more info on this piece. I’m waiting to hear back. Then I’ll share what I find out. grape ape 🍇 + 🦍 Of course there could be some conflict of interest at play re: Thibodeaux, Royer and anything 1980s Kirby that doesn't look like my 95 year old grandmother drew it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICKYBOBBY Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) No one ghosted for Kirby. He had assistants that “helped” him out on commissions. As Mark Evanier said “that later on when he was ailing, Kirby had people who “helped him out a little on commissions — Jack actually had less assistants than anybody else who produced that much work — but nobody was ghosting for him.” Edited January 23, 2020 by RICKYBOBBY Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 28 minutes ago, RICKYBOBBY said: No one ghosted for Kirby. Yes, you should keep believing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICKYBOBBY Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) Yep - I’ll believe Mark Evanier over anyone on this board 😊 Edited January 23, 2020 by RICKYBOBBY Spelling romitaman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, RICKYBOBBY said: No one ghosted for Kirby. He had assistants that “helped” him out on commissions. As Mark Evanier said “that later on when he was ailing, Kirby had people who “helped him out a little on commissions — Jack actually had less assistants than anybody else who produced that much work — but nobody was ghosting for him.” 14 minutes ago, RICKYBOBBY said: Yep - I’ll believe Mark Evanier over anyone on this board 😊 Not a perfect fit but close enough for not only yourself and Mark but so-called "helpers" and other beneficiaries of asking Kirby money for non-Kirby art (and probably not even signatures unless you count Roz!) “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” -Upton Sinclair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICKYBOBBY Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 2 hours ago, vodou said: Not a perfect fit but close enough for not only yourself and Mark but so-called "helpers" and other beneficiaries of asking Kirby money for non-Kirby art (and probably not even signatures unless you count Roz!) “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” -Upton Sinclair So discrediting Mark and accusing other beneficiaries in selling non kirby art as kirby art. I’d like to see proof of that accusation. Or did you forget to add the word “probably” in front of your statement ? Just like “Probably not even his signature”. Nice water cooler conversation to pass time but it’s nothing more than that. The enemy of truth is blind acceptance - Matthew Arnold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 51 minutes ago, RICKYBOBBY said: The enemy of truth is blind acceptance - Matthew Arnold I agree...Mr. Kettle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapeape Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Some of us have been around this thing of ours a long time. Sometimes knowing something for certain and proving it (we are not in a courtroom) are two different things. its easy to dismiss the advice on here. Just know that for the most part it is left here to make people think. It can seem snarky, know it all and darn right!! I get it. Still if I was anywhere near heartbreak(owning, buying, selling fake, stolen counterfeit or forged material) I’ll take that sobering message anyway I can get it. Sometimes there’s a tendency to circle the wagons not facing the fact that we might be circling the drain. And before I get blown up I’m not talking about Y O U. Unless what I’m saying feels like I’m talking to you. Here to learn and to help. The Grape of Ape exitmusicblue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumbydarnit Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) It's getting to where I have a hard time trusting sketches from just about any artist. They are getting to be as hard as sports autographs to trust their authenticity. It's a shame because I love old con sketches, but I have stepped away from them altogether. Edited January 23, 2020 by gumbydarnit alxjhnsn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapeape Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, gumbydarnit said: It's getting to where I have a hard time trusting sketches from just about any artist. They are getting to be as hard as sports autographs to trust their authenticity. It's a shame because I love old con sketches, but I have stepped away from them altogether. I understand that. My comfortability is based on seeing an artists work over a long period of time. For the most part buying or receiving a sketch from the artist is the best way to avoid getting burned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glendgold Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 7 hours ago, Varanis said: Not that there’s no risk, but I believe the specialty auction houses do some level of diligence to ensure they don’t list fakes. eBay in the other hand is rife with fakes. I wish that were always true, but there's a whole thread now about fake Shusters that suggest the diligence is spottier than they admit. Agree about eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBerman Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 Yes, my newbie take is that sketches can't be trusted, which is really too bad since they're good for the artist (more income) and good for the fan community (new art with potentially interesting new poses and character combinations). But they're too easily subverted by the unscrupulous to fleece the gullible (a group which may include me). For those seeing this thread without the benefit of the decades of knowledge alluded to above, here are some relevant direct links: https://ohdannyboy.blogspot.com/2011/10/original-art-stories-mystery-of-jack.html https://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/10/19/greg-theakston-sothebys-and-the-great-jack-kirby-scam/ https://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/dynamics/2011/10/23/re-shame-on-you-danny-boy/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumbydarnit Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 As wacky as this hobby can be... there's probably a collector who specializes in collecting fake sketches. Rick2you2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, gumbydarnit said: there's probably a collector who specializes in collecting fake sketches. Yeah. The FBI and various State AG offices https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2008/march/artscam_032108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemart1966 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, RICKYBOBBY said: No one ghosted for Kirby. He had assistants that “helped” him out on commissions. As Mark Evanier said “that later on when he was ailing, Kirby had people who “helped him out a little on commissions — Jack actually had less assistants than anybody else who produced that much work — but nobody was ghosting for him.” That's a statement that needs a concrete definition for every commission that "Kirby" ever did. Otherwise it's an airy fairy statement that means very little. Edited January 23, 2020 by pemart1966 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumbydarnit Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 20 minutes ago, grapeape said: I understand that. My comfortability is based on seeing an artists work over a long period of time. For the most part buying or receiving a sketch from the artist is the best way to avoid getting burned. What shook me was a con sketch that I thought was a fake was for sale on ebay. A fan went to the artist's site and asked him if it was real, I was certain he would dog it as a bad forgery, but instead he gave it his blessing, looked legit to him! Then there was the time a sketch I had for years in my collection was posted FS on ebay. I sent the seller a detailed scan of a section, showing the underdrawing and washy brush stokes on the sketch. He claimed he must have been scammed and took the auction down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICKYBOBBY Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 40 minutes ago, grapeape said: Some of us have been around this thing of ours a long time. Sometimes knowing something for certain and proving it (we are not in a courtroom) are two different things. its easy to dismiss the advice on here. Just know that for the most part it is left here to make people think. It can seem snarky, know it all and darn right!! I get it. Still if I was anywhere near heartbreak(owning, buying, selling fake, stolen counterfeit or forged material) I’ll take that sobering message anyway I can get it. Sometimes there’s a tendency to circle the wagons not facing the fact that we might be circling the drain. And before I get blown up I’m not talking about Y O U. Unless what I’m saying feels like I’m talking to you. Here to learn and to help. The Grape of Ape Not just dismissing advice on here. But I don’t think anyone is certain of anything on here. People are just echoing what Greg Theakston came out and wrote this in his book - that Jack didn’t do those and someone ghosted - but I can’t tell you WHO. Okay. To me - just seems like a great way to sell his book. Also, no “expert” on this board said anything before his statements (for about 18 years). And then all of a sudden they are fake because we all say so? I would say in this case that someone like Mark would have a better insight in Jacks final years and his process during this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
