THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[theCapraAegagrus]

Had Kevin Feige concocted the MCU from scratch, that would be genius. He didn't.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Again, you're projecting your perception as some sort of all-encompassing reality. Nobody else saw these actors as "off-center" castings. Just because they surprised you doesn't mean that they surprised anyone else. Your extremely fanatical revisionist history is somewhat annoying.

[@therealsilvermane]

5 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

They're not, though. All they did was follow a blueprint set by Stan Lee and Marvel Comics. They didn't do anything unique or "genius"-level.

Neither Kevin Feige nor Marvel Studios have done a single "genius-level" thing. They did their jobs. Nothing more; Nothing less.

So by that measure, anybody could have done what Marvel Studios has done? If Geoff Johns was the head honcho of Marvel Studios would they have pulled off the same magic? I think not. What Kevin Feige and co. have done is unique and it changed the world. I call that genius.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just now, @therealsilvermane said:

What Kevin Feige and co. have done is unique and it changed the world. I call that genius.

It's not genius. It's a moving-pictures version of Marvel Comics. It is not unique and it has not changed the world.

[@therealsilvermane]

2 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

Again, you're projecting your perception as some sort of all-encompassing reality. Nobody else saw these actors as "off-center" castings. Just because they surprised you doesn't mean that they surprised anyone else. Your extremely fanatical revisionist history is somewhat annoying.

Robert Downey Jr was completely and totally an off-center casting. The guy was drug addict, a habitual offender, and not the dictionary picture of what you'd imagine a billionaire playboy super-hero looking like. But Kevin Feige and Jon Favreau cast him and fought for him, and it was brilliant. Besides Chris Hemsworth, hardly any of the heroes they cast are that perfect square jaw actor fans salivate over with their fan castings. With a couple exceptions, they cast comedians, nerds, and weirdos, and it's paid off.

[Bosco685]

9 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

As I see it, geniuses come in all different shapes, sizes, and skill sets. Technically, you only need a 140 IQ to be considered "genius." But not all geniuses set the world on fire. So let's say Kevin Feige and the folks at Marvel Studios are talented movie geniuses who work their butts off and have, as a result, kinda changed the world.

Spoiler

 

I hope you see the MCU as more than just clever marketing. There's been a certain brilliance to the way they've handled the whole thing, from the first Iron Man film to the Falcon and the Winter Soldier series. As I see it, part of that brilliance has been their casting. They cast actors who were all a little off-center from what you might expect in a super-hero aka they cast against type. Rather than cast some real life bad*ss or actor/underwear model with a square jaw or Mr/Miss Universe face, they chose weirdos and outcasts for the most part. Robert Downey Jr is Exhibit A of that. Scarlet Johannsen was the last person I'd have thought of when considering a super-hero spy lady, but she ended up being perfect. I'd have never thought of Paul Rudd, a traditional funny guy, as a super-hero but he's been brilliant as Ant-Man. In the beginning, Chadwick Boseman didn't fit my initial impression of what a prince of Africa might look like, but the guy is T'Challa now.

Knowing that these same actors will live and grow with these roles for at least a decade, Marvel cast these actors with the idea that their personalities and traits will embody and flesh out these fictional characters. Robert Downey Jr IS Tony Stark. The sense of social justice and the optimism of Chris Evans is part of who Captain America is now. Carol Danvers as Ms. Marvel was created by Stan Lee and Gerry & Carla Conway to be not only Marvel's answer to TV's Wonder Woman, but also their appeal to the growing feminist movement. So why not cast Brie Larson who is an outspoken feminist and leader of the #MeToo Movement, a talented Oscar winning actress, and someone who played a captive rape victim just like Carol Danvers herself once was in an infamous Avengers storyline? I know some folks hate Brie for that very same activism, but you can't win battles by making friends of everyone. Elizabeth Olsen also was perfect as Wanda. I mean, she just looks like a witch even resembling Sissy Spacek's Carrie, the ultimate cinema witch. And in WandaVision, we saw that perfect casting finally pay off. I'd have never thought they'd find the perfect Thor, but they did.

There's a lot of genius level things that Kevin Feige and the Marvel Studios creators did to make the MCU the biggest movie franchise in the world, but in my mind, their casting has been the most important.

 

 

There is no doubt what Marvel Studios (Kevin Feige afterwards joining in its leadership) established early on and then adjusting and growing its design is truly remarkable. But like I pointed out to you which you were not even aware of, the design construct was incubated not by Kevin Feige but by David Maisel. The man who built the MCU business case using the Blade, X-Men and Spider-Man franchises are reference points for Perlmutter to better understand the missed financial and control opportunities.

Kevin Feige then did an incredible job of putting meat on the bone and driving toward consistency and connectivity across the franchise. And held the course throughout, even when some of the early films did not land at strong results. He had an informed vision of what the general audience would come to appreciate, and through continuous improvement came to a repeatable and successful approach.

I'm not going to say Feige is or is not a genius. But what Maisel laid the groundwork for Feige ran with it using a game plan he had crafted later in the Fox X-Men Franchise which that studio foolishly dismissed. A tremendous success. Adding mythical details surrounding this of certain actors being at the finish of their careers or characters being B/C/D/...Z-List categories isn't necessary. The reality was an evolving concept that over time became refined and matured that led to what we know today as the powerhouse: Marvel Studios.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just now, @therealsilvermane said:

Robert Downey Jr was completely and totally an off-center casting. The guy was drug addict, a habitual offender, and not the dictionary picture of what you'd imagine a billionaire playboy super-hero looking like. But Kevin Feige and Jon Favreau cast him and fought for him, and it was brilliant. Besides Chris Hemsworth, hardly any of the heroes they cast are that perfect square jaw actor fans salivate over with their fan castings. With a couple exceptions, they cast comedians, nerds, and weirdos, and it's paid off.

He was a low-budget actor with name recognition that could use his life experience to channel Tony Stark. Not an "off-center" casting choice. Almost none of their casting choices are out-of-the-box. They literally cast the Doctor Strange that fans wanted.

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Robert Downey Jr was completely and totally an off-center casting. The guy was drug addict, a habitual offender, and not the dictionary picture of what you'd imagine a billionaire playboy super-hero looking like. But Kevin Feige and Jon Favreau cast him and fought for him, and it was brilliant. Besides Chris Hemsworth, hardly any of the heroes they cast are that perfect square jaw actor fans salivate over with their fan castings. With a couple exceptions, they cast comedians, nerds, and weirdos, and it's paid off.

Jon Favreau fought for him - Marvel Studios did not want him. But it was the early work of Mel Gibson helping Downey rebuild his career that made it an easier sell he was on the road to recovery.

The way some of you see it, Feige pulled up to a jail cell and paid his bail as he drove him over to the Iron Man (2008) initial set. That's an extreme misconception.

[theCapraAegagrus]

The only 3 "out-of-the-box" castings that I can think of (that worked) for comic book movies of the last 15 years are Heath Ledger, Chris Pratt, and Ben Affleck. I would add James Spader, but after watching The Blacklist, it's clear why he was hired to be Ultron.

[@therealsilvermane]

19 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

Had Kevin Feige concocted the MCU from scratch, that would be genius. He didn't.

Stan Lee himself would take ideas from other places, and along with Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko, made magic with it. Genius doesn't always have to be creative genius. Sometimes it can be taking something that's there already and shaping it and perfecting it for what's needed at the time. That's what Feige, this Maisel guy I guess, and the creators/writers at Marvel Studios have done. These cinematic versions of Marvel characters we all grew up with are, in my mind, the characters in their final perfect cinematic form. You're just not going to get any better than seeing Tony Stark and Steve Rogers staring down each other in the Civil War movie. Life isn't perfect, but Marvel Studios' casting has been (with a few hiccups in the beginning with like Hulk and stuff).

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Stan Lee himself would take ideas from other places, and along with Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko, made magic with it. Genius doesn't always have to be creative genius. Sometimes it can be taking something that's there already and shaping it and perfecting it for what's needed at the time. That's what Feige, this Maisel guy I guess, and the creators/writers at Marvel Studios have done. These cinematic versions of Marvel characters we all grew up with are, in my mind, the characters in their final perfect cinematic form. You're just not going to get any better than seeing Tony Stark and Steve Rogers staring down each other in the Civil War movie. Life isn't perfect, but Marvel Studios' casting has been (with a few hiccups in the beginning with like Hulk and stuff).

No guessing about it. He got Ike Perlmutter to open up his tightly-guarded pocket book in order to invest in internally-led productions. No more farming out rights to various studios going forward.

Glad I could contribute to your MCU education. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Stan Lee himself would take ideas from other places, and along with Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko, made magic with it. Genius doesn't always have to be creative genius. Sometimes it can be taking something that's there already and shaping it and perfecting it for what's needed at the time. That's what Feige, this Maisel guy I guess, and the creators/writers at Marvel Studios have done. These cinematic versions of Marvel characters we all grew up with are, in my mind, the characters in their final perfect cinematic form. You're just not going to get any better than seeing Tony Stark and Steve Rogers staring down each other in the Civil War movie. Life isn't perfect, but Marvel Studios' casting has been (with a few hiccups in the beginning with like Hulk and stuff).

Yes, you are. The source material is light-years beyond better than the movie.

Marvel Studios hasn't perfected anything. They re-casted, retconned, etc. There is no apparent genius at Marvel Studios. Just a bunch of people who earn their money by doing their job correctly. By comparison, WB is a failure because they don't have people who correctly do their job.

[@therealsilvermane]

31 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

The only 3 "out-of-the-box" castings that I can think of (that worked) for comic book movies of the last 15 years are Heath Ledger, Chris Pratt, and Ben Affleck. I would add James Spader, but after watching The Blacklist, it's clear why he was hired to be Ultron.

Well to me, the greatest out of the box casting of all time is Michael Keaton as Batman. Hordes of fans almost beat down the gates of Warner Bros in response to Tim Burton, another movie genius, casting Keaton as Bruce Wayne.

I don't know about Heath Ledger or Ben Affleck as out of the box, but the thing with Chris Pratt is I think so many folks were unfamiliar with either him or Peter Quill. I myself had never watched Community or Parks and Rec or whatever that show was, and I wasn't that familiar with Star-Lord who'd had two versions: the serious 70's-80's flying guy and then the one from the 2000's Annihilation Conquest story where Keith Giffen re-imagined  him as a funny guy in charge of misfits, much like the final cinema Guardians. Adding that Guardians didn't seem like a traditional super-hero flick but more of a fun outer space adventure from the trailer, I think there was maybe too much unfamiliarity there to qualify as casting against type.

Edited May 12, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just now, @therealsilvermane said:

Well to me, the greatest out of the box casting of all time is Michael Keaton as Batman. Hordes of fans almost beat down the gates of Warner Bros in response to Tim Burton, another movie genius, casting Keaton as Bruce Wayne.

I don't know about Heath Ledger or Ben Affleck as out of the box, but the thing with Chris Pratt is I think so many folks were unfamiliar with either of those two. I myself had never watched Community or Parks and Rec or whatever that show was, and I wasn't that familiar with Star-Lord who'd had two versions: the 70's-80's flying guy and then the one from the 2000's Annihilation Conquest story where Keith Giffen re-imagined  him as a funny guy in charge of misfits, much like the final cinema Guardians. Adding that Guardians didn't seem like a traditional super-hero flick but more of a fun outer space adventure from the trailer, I think there was maybe too much unfamiliarity there to qualify as casting against type.

I wasn't alive when Michael Keaton was cast, so I'll have to take your word for it.

There was extreme confusion when Ledger was cast, and outcries when Affleck was cast. Even I was extremely hesitant to accept Batfleck, but I remembered the performance that Heath put in after his casting was criticized. I also heard how good he was in some of his self-directed movies, and how big of a Batman fan he is. Chris Pratt was a fat doofus on P&R. His range wasn't something known to the plebs.

[▫️]

32 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

As I see it, geniuses come in all different shapes, sizes, and skill sets. Technically, you only need a 140 IQ to be considered "genius." But not all geniuses set the world on fire. So let's say Kevin Feige and the folks at Marvel Studios are talented movie geniuses who work their butts off and have, as a result, kinda changed the world.

I hope you see the MCU as more than just clever marketing. There's been a certain brilliance to the way they've handled the whole thing, from the first Iron Man film to the Falcon and the Winter Soldier series. As I see it, part of that brilliance has been their casting. They cast actors who were all a little off-center from what you might expect in a super-hero aka they cast against type. Rather than cast some real life bad*ss or actor/underwear model with a square jaw or Mr/Miss Universe face, they chose weirdos and outcasts for the most part. Robert Downey Jr is Exhibit A of that. Scarlet Johannsen was the last person I'd have thought of when considering a super-hero spy lady, but she ended up being perfect. I'd have never thought of Paul Rudd, a traditional funny guy, as a super-hero but he's been brilliant as Ant-Man. In the beginning, Chadwick Boseman didn't fit my initial impression of what a prince of Africa might look like, but the guy is T'Challa now.

Knowing that these same actors will live and grow with these roles for at least a decade, Marvel cast these actors with the idea that their personalities and traits will embody and flesh out these fictional characters. Robert Downey Jr IS Tony Stark. The sense of social justice and the optimism of Chris Evans is part of who Captain America is now. Carol Danvers as Ms. Marvel was created by Stan Lee and Gerry & Carla Conway to be not only Marvel's answer to TV's Wonder Woman, but also their appeal to the growing feminist movement. So why not cast Brie Larson who is an outspoken feminist and leader of the #MeToo Movement, a talented Oscar winning actress, and someone who played a captive rape victim just like Carol Danvers herself once was in an infamous Avengers storyline? I know some folks hate Brie for that very same activism, but you can't win battles by making friends of everyone. Elizabeth Olsen also was perfect as Wanda. I mean, she just looks like a witch even resembling Sissy Spacek's Carrie, the ultimate cinema witch. And in WandaVision, we saw that perfect casting finally pay off. I'd have never thought they'd find the perfect Thor, but they did.

There's a lot of genius level things that Kevin Feige and the Marvel Studios creators did to make the MCU the biggest movie franchise in the world, but in my mind, their casting has been the most important.

I’m not sure we can talk anymore after your stated perspective above. People love to throw out the word genius. No one involved in making comic book movies is on a genius level. And if you find one, he’s definitely not using his gift in a productive way. You said the Marvel geniuses worked their butts off and “kinda changed the world?” When did they split the atom again? A single American soldier on the ground at Normandy did more to change the world than any movie studio ever will. You can’t possibly believe what you wrote above and if you do, then Mickey owns the rights to you.

[@therealsilvermane]

2 minutes ago, Oddball said:

I’m not sure we can talk anymore after your stated perspective above. People love to throw out the word genius. No one involved in making comic book movies is on a genius level. And if you find one, he’s definitely not using his gift in a productive way. You said the Marvel geniuses worked their butts off and “kinda changed the world?” When did they split the atom again? A single American soldier on the ground at Normandy did more to change the world than any movie studio ever will. You can’t possibly believe what you wrote above and if you do, then Mickey owns the rights to you.

Genius isn't reserved for science genius. There's genius in the arts, too. Michaelangelo and Beethoven are considered genius. Prince is considered a genius. Gordon Ramsey can be considered a genius of the cuisine arts. Movie genius is a thing and it isn't just reserved for film school favorites like Orson Welles or Terence Malick. In the realm of blockbuster moviemaking, you can also have your geniuses who bring something that wasn't there before or reshape things in ways that weren't thought of. George Lucas could be considered such a guy. James Cameron is a genius of blockbuster moviemaking who changed the art form more recently. Similarly, the guys and gals at Marvel Studios have collectively changed blockbuster moviemaking forever. That takes talent, hard work, and yeah, genius. Imagine a world with and without the MCU. They changed it.

[▫️]

15 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Genius isn't reserved for science genius. There's genius in the arts, too. Michaelangelo and Beethoven are considered genius. Prince is considered a genius. Gordon Ramsey can be considered a genius of the cuisine arts. Movie genius is a thing and it isn't just reserved for film school favorites like Orson Welles or Terence Malick. In the realm of blockbuster moviemaking, you can also have your geniuses who bring something that wasn't there before or reshape things in ways that weren't thought of. George Lucas could be considered such a guy. James Cameron is a genius of blockbuster moviemaking who changed the art form more recently. Similarly, the guys and gals at Marvel Studios have collectively changed blockbuster moviemaking forever. That takes talent, hard work, and yeah, genius. Imagine a world with and without the MCU. They changed it.

I never said the term was reserved for science. I DID say Feige is not a genius. Not in intellect or the arts. There’s just no point any longer.
I’m outies.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Oddball

[@therealsilvermane]

8 minutes ago, Oddball said:

I never said the term was reserved for science. I DID say Feige is not a genius. Not in intellect or art. He’s a comic book nerd and good businessman. There’s just no point any longer.
I’m outies.

[media_junkie]

I don't agree with Silvermane on alot of stuff, and I don't agree with him on the fact that Feige is a genius, but I will agree with him that the majority of the casting for the Superheroes we see in the MCU films have been great choices.  Could there have been better choices? I am sure there could have been, but after watching the actors that was chosen for the parts it is extremely hard to see someone else in those "shoes" now.

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

9 hours ago, media_junkie said:

I don't agree with Silvermane on alot of stuff, and I don't agree with him on the fact that Feige is a genius, but I will agree with him that the majority of the casting for the Superheroes we see in the MCU films have been great choices.  Could there have been better choices? I am sure there could have been, but after watching the actors that was chosen for the parts it is extremely hard to see someone else in those "shoes" now.

I think most of us agree that they ended up being great choices for their roles.

Do you think that they were 'out-of-the-box' choices, though?