Grading ASM 238 without Tattooz yes/no?
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Need an opinion.

I have a copy of ASM 238 at CGC waiting to be graded  In “Received” status. The box doesn’t have the Tattooz insert. I’m the original owner and it never had the insert. I just read that it will get a Green label when graded. I assume that’s a KOD for this book.

I think the book is a 9.0/9.2 grade and would like to know if I should cancel the grading and have the book returned raw or let it get graded with the Green label. I want to sell the book so looking to get most bang for the buck.

Here are photos of the book... Thanks

(Uploaded clearer photos)

 

 

B0DDE2D4-E414-4210-9C06-EE42054296C9.jpeg

121C268B-152E-42EC-99DA-D079F623CC2A.jpeg

Edited by ChrispyC66

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For years, I’ve tried to explain that not all copies were produced with the tattoos inside.  I purchased FF 252 off of the stands (2 copies), bagged right away and put away.  Looked 5 years later when everyone was making a big deal of the tattoos and found neither copy had them.  I really doubt they were taken out on the stands and I’ve found many, many copies without.

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It will sell at a discount with a green label. Despite buying off the stands there is no way to prove it came without the insert. If it is graded high enough I imagine someone will buy it crack it and add the tattoo and resubmit it. That is what I think happens to most of the high grade issues with green labels.

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8 hours ago, Randall Dowling said:

For years, I’ve tried to explain that not all copies were produced with the tattoos inside.  I purchased FF 252 off of the stands (2 copies), bagged right away and put away.  Looked 5 years later when everyone was making a big deal of the tattoos and found neither copy had them.  I really doubt they were taken out on the stands and I’ve found many, many copies without.

I am the original owner of one of those copies of FF 252 that never had a Tattooz insert.  I was actually re-bagging and boarding the FF books yesterday when I went searching the topic of grading books with missing Tattooz inserts and discovered the disappointing news about ASM 238.

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Friend of mine sent in a very high grade 238 with the tattooz insert, only to be surprised with a green label and told that the insert was intact, but contained no tattoo. WTF? He never bothered to put the insert under a light to double check the tattoo was there when submitted.

Research confirmed FF252's tattoo of the spider/strawberry is the exact same one that was included with the 238 copy. The Lakeside insert has an opening near the spine where the tattoo itself can be removed/inserted. He bought a cheap $5 copy of FF252 off mycomicsshop, pulled the tattoo out and carefully slipped it into the insert.

Resubmitted, and he got his blue label, and it was graded higher than the first submission!

I've read that some folks are pulling out staples, popping covers off and and attaching the entire insert from FF252 into the 238 and getting away with that. I think what my buddy did with the tattoo is 100% legit, but taking apart the book to put the whole insert in? Yikes!

Personally, I think it's stupid for grading companies to make any distinction between books with inserted advertising like the Mark Jeweler's stuff. It's a pretty ballsy maneuver for someone to attempt putting that sort of insert in because of the risk of injury to the book, but I don't necessarily think it's fair for graders to penalize a book itself with a purple/green label if the comic book, the cover or the story remains entirely unaffected. At the end of the day, we're still talking about advertising. 

That all said, the situation with the Tattooz insert is a little different. Unlike other inserts like a Mark's J's, the 238 cover clearly indicates the Lakeside insert is part of the book.

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1 hour ago, agamoto said:

Friend of mine sent in a very high grade 238 with the tattooz insert, only to be surprised with a green label and told that the insert was intact, but contained no tattoo. WTF? He never bothered to put the insert under a light to double check the tattoo was there when submitted.

Research confirmed FF252's tattoo of the spider/strawberry is the exact same one that was included with the 238 copy. The Lakeside insert has an opening near the spine where the tattoo itself can be removed/inserted. He bought a cheap $5 copy of FF252 off mycomicsshop, pulled the tattoo out and carefully slipped it into the insert.

Resubmitted, and he got his blue label, and it was graded higher than the first submission!

I've read that some folks are pulling out staples, popping covers off and and attaching the entire insert from FF252 into the 238 and getting away with that. I think what my buddy did with the tattoo is 100% legit, but taking apart the book to put the whole insert in? Yikes!

Personally, I think it's stupid for grading companies to make any distinction between books with inserted advertising like the Mark Jeweler's stuff. It's a pretty ballsy maneuver for someone to attempt putting that sort of insert in because of the risk of injury to the book, but I don't necessarily think it's fair for graders to penalize a book itself with a purple/green label if the comic book, the cover or the story remains entirely unaffected. At the end of the day, we're still talking about advertising. 

That all said, the situation with the Tattooz insert is a little different. Unlike other inserts like a Mark's J's, the 238 cover clearly indicates the Lakeside insert is part of the book.

it wouldn't get a purple label... 

also its collectors that think green labels like this are bad.... :facepalm: the problem is people don't read the green labels and just assume if its not blue or yellow its a lower value.. this is not always the case for green labels.

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14 minutes ago, Krismusic said:

it wouldn't get a purple label... 

also its collectors that think green labels like this are bad.... :facepalm: the problem is people don't read the green labels and just assume if its not blue or yellow its a lower value.. this is not always the case for green labels.

If they detected a married insert, meaning the book was taken apart to alter it, I think they would give it a purple. I agree with you on the green label, I don't consider it to be dreaded, but to people hoping to profit off speculation and flipping, it sure as heck is.

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14 minutes ago, agamoto said:

If they detected a married insert, meaning the book was taken apart to alter it, I think they would give it a purple. I agree with you on the green label, I don't consider it to be dreaded, but to people hoping to profit off speculation and flipping, it sure as heck is.

it would still get a green label with notation married insert. Purple is for restoration work such as Tears sealed, Colour touch, cleaned staples, re glossing, pieces added, etc... 

Image result for CGC green label married

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For me, I like the tatooz there. Once upon a time, the Overstreet said the grades did not matter if the tats were there or not. But I think that has obviously changed. I just like the gimmick of it. 

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1 hour ago, Krismusic said:

it wouldn't get a purple label... 

also its collectors that think green labels like this are bad.... :facepalm: the problem is people don't read the green labels and just assume if its not blue or yellow its a lower value.. this is not always the case for green labels.

I think there is a reason to have a Green label for graded books. However, I think it should only apply to the books condition, construction, missing pages, staple issues, coupons cut out of pages, etc.

Missing marketing add-ins like Tattooz, Pizzazz inserts, Trading cards, Posters, etc. shouldn’t make the book incomplete since it is not missing anything that would otherwise make the BOOK complete. I also don’t think a green label should apply to uncertified signatures on a book. I think both examples should get the Blue label with notation about what inserts ARE included and that there is an uncertified signature on/in the book.

As far as I can find, CGC has no way to know that there AREN’T newsstand or direct market versions of ASM 238 that were assembled/printed without the Tattooz inserts, regardless of whether or not it’s printed on the cover. CGC can ask it’s sister company NGC about manufacturing variants of collectibles :smirk:

I think this would go a long way to reduce the negative image of a Green label and let the market determine the value of the BOOK and nothing else.

In the end, it is what it is...

 

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16 minutes ago, ChrispyC66 said:

I think there is a reason to have a Green label for graded books. However, I think it should only apply to the books condition, construction, missing pages, staple issues, coupons cut out of pages, etc.

Missing marketing add-ins like Tattooz, Pizzazz inserts, Trading cards, Posters, etc. shouldn’t make the book incomplete since it is not missing anything that would otherwise make the BOOK complete. I also don’t think a green label should apply to uncertified signatures on a book. I think both examples should get the Blue label with notation about what inserts ARE included and that there is an uncertified signature on/in the book.

As far as I can find, CGC has no way to know that there AREN’T newsstand or direct market versions of ASM 238 that were assembled/printed without the Tattooz inserts, regardless of whether or not it’s printed on the cover. CGC can ask it’s sister company NGC about manufacturing variants of collectibles :smirk:

I think this would go a long way to reduce the negative image of a Green label and let the market determine the value of the BOOK and nothing else.

In the end, it is what it is...

 

yup and unfortunately the missing inserts or unwitness signatures get green labels.. t'is life.

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8 minutes ago, Krismusic said:

yup and unfortunately the missing inserts or unwitness signatures get green labels.. t'is life.

So do you think a 9.2 Green label without the insert will be worth more or less than a raw NM- version without the insert?

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2 minutes ago, ChrispyC66 said:

So do you think a 9.2 Green label without the insert will be worth more or less than a raw NM- version without the insert?

I would pay for the slab as it costs money to get a book slabbed and it protects it which is one of the reasons I slab my book.. raw is always cheaper than a slab book though in general.. I mean the raw's though are more risky buying so I offer less or bid less than a slab with a slab majority of the time you know what your getting with a raw like what happened to the OP you don't know what is missing... 

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22 hours ago, ChrispyC66 said:

So do you think a 9.2 Green label without the insert will be worth more or less than a raw NM- version without the insert?

This is a pretty simple equation for me.  Add up the cost of shipping, certification and any other costs of encapsulation.  Look what you can realistically sell the book for afterward, less costs and compare to price selling raw.  After doing so, the answer should be obvious.  
 

However, it’s worth dispelling any notion that books are more protected in CGC cases when in fact, the book is most likely to be damaged either in the process of slabbing or shaking around in shipping while in the slab.  In addition, CGC cases are not archival.  They won’t disclose what the case is made of but it’s definitely not inert materials.  My recommendation is to sell the book raw without tattoos.  Unfortunately, it’s going to get hit hard on price without tattoos, slabbed or raw.

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I have a Marvel Team Up 65 (the Captain Britain one) that has a Pizzazz  magazine insert. I have checked ebay cgcs and don't see any with a notation.  Apparently an insert isn't necessarily an insert. 

20200127_133025.thumb.jpg.026774c1a65014e63677989a498f28d6.jpg

Edited by Spidey 62

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4 hours ago, Spidey 62 said:

I have a Marvel Team Up 65 (the Captain Britain one) that has a Pizzazz  magazine insert. I have checked ebay cgcs and don't see any with a notation.  Apparently an insert isn't necessarily an insert. 

20200127_133025.thumb.jpg.026774c1a65014e63677989a498f28d6.jpg

The only reason ASM 238 gets the Green label when missing the Tattooz is because it says on the cover it’s in the book. Which is sad.

Edited by ChrispyC66

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The book came back with Qualified Green label and 9.2 w/OW to W pages. 
Thanks for everyone’s responses.

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