any theories on why prices seem to be dropping with a lot of books? 5 5

[Glassman10]

1 hour ago, Jeffro. said:

That doesn't necessarily translate into more comic collectors though

not to mention tons more copies hitting the market. Once people figure out something may have value, it's too late to get into the baseline of the market.  I tend to think that anything newer than 15 cent comics is getting a bit late although there are always a few outliers. They really have to be near mint to hold value. That's not true of older SA books. It's certainly good for CGC though. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Glassman10

[HuddyBee]

I think its pretty obvious the comic market just isn't focusing on DC for better or for worse.

Case in point: How many New CGC labels were released with DC Characters on 'em?

Edited January 29, 2020 by HuddyBee

[Xenosmilus]

1 hour ago, Jeffro. said:

That doesn't necessarily translate into more comic collectors though

True, but it's something to consider.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Xenosmilus

[NoMan]

2 hours ago, Glassman10 said:

I went to the pricing at Mycomics, Metropolitan Comics and High Grade Comics ultimately . I started with Overstreet which got me in the ballpark. The most difficult part was and is grading. None of my comics were slabbed. None were on boards with bags. At the time I acquired my comics, all from the news stand that wasn't really a prevalent mentality. I took them out on rare occasions and did take note of price changes, always considering selling them but I never did until 2017 when the price of a 5.0 AF 15 found in a box of comics in an abandoned school bus began to take hold. Initially, I thought I might be able to get a few thousand for it but Bob Storms of High Grade disabused me of that notion. I had the AF15 and about five others cleaned  pressed and slabbed.  It took me about ten months researching before the AF15 went to market. He came to my house for two days and we just sat grading. I learned a ton.  I don't think a 5.0 has sold for more than what Bob got for it. 

I only kept my Journey into mystery/ thor collections and a bunch of Dr Strange. They don't have much value compared to FF4 or ASM and I really like them up until that unfortunate wardrobe selection  in Dr Strange. I'll give them to my son eventually.  Dreckcheck is an interesting site for comparison pricing. 

 Those of us who have hung around the AF15 threads long enough know the story about your AF15, Bob Storms drove to you to look at it, he sold it for 55K and all is good and you're son put a down payment on a house with the Spiderman money. I'm happy things worked out for you and your family and Bob Storms. But I want more information. I want to know about this abandoned school bus. Where was it? Why were you in an abandoned school bus to begin with? Do you often frequent abandoned vehicles? If you had to speculate, why do you think there were a box of comics in an abandoned school bus? Do you think the abandoned school bus, if restored, could bring even more money than the AF15? I mean, was it one of those cool old school buses from the 50s? I'm seriously wondering these things re: your AF15 story because, I dunno, I'm tired of AF15 and the abandoned school bus has really captured my imagination.

I wonder about stuff like that. Who was the last person to drive it? How did it end up where it ended up? Did anyone die in the school bus?

Edited January 29, 2020 by NoMan

[Dick Pontoon]

I don't collect DCs except for the oddball issue here and there. I haven't seen prices dropping on any of the Marvel titles I collect, which is most of them.

[Mmehdy]

4 hours ago, zosocane said:

I think all of us were expecting this correction phase that we’re in, which began around last half of last year and will continue all of 2020.  The rates of growth had become unsustainable.  I attribute most of the cause to the end of Phase 3 and the “break” Marvel Studios has taken with its big properties.  The rise in vintage video games has also drawn the purchasing power of younger GenX speculators away.  That said, when Fantastic Four and Namor, a New Avengers line-up, and later a fresh X-Men/Wolverine come out on screen (guys, we WILL see Galactus fighting the FF), prices will be on the rise again. And a rebooted Batman franchise in 2021. The decade will be good for the hobby.

I will second that...look for strong price growth in the roaring 20's

[1Cool]

Couple factors but I do believe the sales tax made people really look at their purchases a bit more closely and some people are cutting back due to the cost increase.  I also think a lot of the huge spike was due to long time collectors selling off collections in the effort of buying a select few mega keys books which pushed up demand sky high.  Now that a lot of the collectors have downsized we may see a bit of a downturn.  Sales in general seemed much lower in November - January 2020 compared to the previous years so I'd not say it was all seasonal effect.

[kimik]

Looking at the books I was bidding on in the Clink auction last night, the GA good girl and better horror books are still strong and running up. Those are the areas to look at now, with SA having outpaced GA gains the past two years. 

[jeffreyk]

I recently won my first book in a  heritage auction..it was approximately 1425.  That is the price that reflected in gpa.  However, there was 100 sales tax on the book as well as shipping and a credit card fee.  By the time all was said and done, the.book was about 1570.  I did consider the credit card fee in my bid.

If the market has taken about a 10 percent hit on prices over the past few months with sales taxes ranging around 7 to 10 percent, the addition of sales tax is, at least in my eyes, the main factor in the softening of prices recently.

Ebay still does not charge sales tax in my state.  There is no fair playing field right now.

[piper]

55 minutes ago, kimik said:

Looking at the books I was bidding on in the Clink auction last night, the GA good girl and better horror books are still strong and running up. Those are the areas to look at now, with SA having outpaced GA gains the past two years. 

Win anything?

[Glassman10]

6 hours ago, NoMan said:

 Those of us who have hung around the AF15 threads long enough know the story about your AF15, Bob Storms drove to you to look at it, he sold it for 55K and all is good and you're son put a down payment on a house with the Spiderman money. I'm happy things worked out for you and your family and Bob Storms. But I want more information. I want to know about this abandoned school bus. Where was it? Why were you in an abandoned school bus to begin with? Do you often frequent abandoned vehicles? If you had to speculate, why do you think there were a box of comics in an abandoned school bus? Do you think the abandoned school bus, if restored, could bring even more money than the AF15? I mean, was it one of those cool old school buses from the 50s? I'm seriously wondering these things re: your AF15 story because, I dunno, I'm tired of AF15 and the abandoned school bus has really captured my imagination.

I wonder about stuff like that. Who was the last person to drive it? How did it end up where it ended up? Did anyone die in the school bus?

I simply answered a question from someone about how I pursued the pricing  of the comic. I didn't mention the price.   I mention Bob because he did a great job.  There were lots of comics in that box. I gave away an avengers 4 to someone on this board from that box . I bet you wish it had been you.  The bus is sitting where it was fifty years ago. 

[NoMan]

2 hours ago, Glassman10 said:

I simply answered a question from someone about how I pursued the pricing  of the comic. I didn't mention the price.   I mention Bob because he did a great job.  There were lots of comics in that box. I gave away an avengers 4 to someone on this board from that box . I bet you wish it had been you.  The bus is sitting where it was fifty years ago. 

I figured there was a chance it could go like this. Having a brain that dwells on details like the school bus in your AF15 story and not the AF15 is a blessing and a curse, but mostly a blessing, I guess.

I was not being sarcastic or whatever, I truly was interested in the details of the school bus. I guess you could double down and say, "The school bus is none of your business" and it wouldn't be that big of a bigee. No harm, no foul. You be you. I'll be me. That sort of thing. But I think about stuff like that, "Who was the last person to drive the school bus?" "How did it get there." Some people take their photographs at the Official Kodak Picture Taking Spot and some wander off, like Everett Ruess, never to return. Get what I mean, Mr. Glassman?

I figured it might go down like this because social media is a foul sewer and all that so of course I'm on a social media site so I must be being an a-hole. I'm old, you know. But, really it's just how I am. I want to know about the school bus. I already know about the AF15.

I brought up the facts of your AF15 story (Bob Storms, price, etc) not as a put down but just to get that part of the school bus story out of the way. Are there not enough AF15 threads? 

Friends?

 

[KCOComics]

36 minutes ago, NoMan said:

I figured there was a chance it could go like this. Having a brain that dwells on details like the school bus in your AF15 story and not the AF15 is a blessing and a curse, but mostly a blessing, I guess.

I was not being sarcastic or whatever, I truly was interested in the details of the school bus. I guess you could double down and say, "The school bus is none of your business" and it wouldn't be that big of a bigee. No harm, no foul. You be you. I'll be me. That sort of thing. But I think about stuff like that, "Who was the last person to drive the school bus?" "How did it get there." Some people take their photographs at the Official Kodak Picture Taking Spot and some wander off, like Everett Ruess, never to return. Get what I mean, Mr. Glassman?

I figured it might go down like this because social media is a foul sewer and all that so of course I'm on a social media site so I must be being an a-hole. I'm old, you know. But, really it's just how I am. I want to know about the school bus. I already know about the AF15.

I brought up the facts of your AF15 story (Bob Storms, price, etc) not as a put down but just to get that part of the school bus story out of the way. Are there not enough AF15 threads? 

Friends?

 

In defense of NoMan, I'm also terribly fascinated by this story.  

To the dismay of my wife and bewilderment of my therapist,  most of my fantasies end with "and then I found AF15 in a box!"  

Joking aside, your story is amazing!  And whatever you used the $$ for,  it's wonderful that your discovery enabled you to better your family! 

  I recently found a beat up FF48 at a strange collectibles store and felt like I hit the lottery. I've been bragging about it for weeks... this also leaves my therapist bewildered. 

[Iceman399]

It's almost the perfect storm to see a pullback in sales: 

End of an "era" with the MCU - almost impossible to refute how much the MCU and for lesser part the DCCU impacted prices. 
Sales tax - I've talked about this with a lot of Canadian collectors and it was like when our dollar was at parity back in 2012/2013 when all of a sudden it tanked and we were hit with a "25%" increase in prices.  Many stopped buying nearly as much.  It took about 6 months for us to realize yup it's here to "stay" so might as well bite the bullet and get to it.
Calendar - as many have said the winter season is typically the slowest, between holidays and commitments a lot of books slip through the cracks and cripple the 90day gpa on the less commonly sold books (get 2 sales for $600 and all of a sudden the 5 sale GPA is almost cut in half if it was trending at $900).  
Video games - I don't think there is that much money leaving the hobby for video games.  We've seen how pumped that market is by "THE" company and their investors pushing the agenda, the same company that auctioned off the big game, is investors of the company and also bought the game.  All they did was take money out of the left pocket and put it in the right pocket.  Several early spenders are getting absolutely hammered the second time a similar copy comes to market.  Video games aren't new and instead we are just being pushed it by a very select to look at me and the price this copy sold for.

All of that said in the last week we've noticed an uptick in sales and inquiries, is that a sign things are turning around?  I can't say yes, but it's a positive sign.  Can't always have positive gains but I don't think it's a downward spiral.
 

[Iceman399]

1 minute ago, Batmanis#1 said:

What do you think Walt Disney's ownership of superhero rights will look like down the road to me they will push and make a ton of new movies and series and keep kids attached to heroes and adults involved as well. No way they investment billions just to sit back and see it all crumble. I say this as a guy that grew up buying and collecting without any movies needed. But things have changed. Big money investors will not let this all fall down.

I agree.  They definitely won't sit idle.  I don't expect them to come out with a MASSIVE 22 movie series that all "ties" into a massive story again per say, but they'll keep pumping out movies and will do more characters that aren't their bread and butter.  Guardians of the Galaxy was a nothing set...the pulled them out and it turned into a loveable trash panda.  Will we see the core again?  Of course but it will be like Batman and or Spidey and get new actors and new stories.

[Ryan.]

I'm also intrigued by the school bus. 

[tth2]

15 hours ago, HuddyBee said:

I think its pretty obvious the comic market just isn't focusing on DC for better or for worse.

You could've made this comment every year since 1961 and been absolutely correct.

But that's okay.  If you're into the titles, why would you want a bunch of Marvel Zombie fanboy equivalents competing with you?  I was really into ultra-HG pre-1964 SA DC for a long time, and loved the fact that I didn't have to compete with all of the Marvel big boy collectors.

[HuddyBee]

5 minutes ago, tth2 said:

If you're into the titles, why would you want a bunch of Marvel Zombie fanboy equivalents competing with you?  I was really into ultra-HG pre-1964 SA DC for a long time, and loved the fact that I didn't have to compete with all of the Marvel big boy collectors.

I'm quite certain one of the reasons I grew so fond of DC comics is because (other than their being better ) of necessity. I could afford DC. So I bought DC and learned to love it. I was only surrounded by DC books. While I would love for DC books to get the love they deserve someday, right now I'm loving the cheap prices, and my being the only guy in the world who wants the books.

[Glassman10]

15 hours ago, NoMan said:

I figCured there was a chance it could go like this. Having a brain that dwells on details like the school bus in your AF15 story and not the AF15 is a blessing and a curse, but mostly a blessing, I guess.

I was not being sarcastic or whatever, I truly was interested in the details of the school bus. I guess you could double down and say, "The school bus is none of your business" and it wouldn't be that big of a bigee. No harm, no foul. You be you. I'll be me. That sort of thing. But I think about stuff like that, "Who was the last person to drive the school bus?" "How did it get there." Some people take their photographs at the Official Kodak Picture Taking Spot and some wander off, like Everett Ruess, never to return. Get what I mean, Mr. Glassman?

I figured it might go down like this because social media is a foul sewer and all that so of course I'm on a social media site so I must be being an a-hole. I'm old, you know. But, really it's just how I am. I want to know about the school bus. I already know about the AF15.

I brought up the facts of your AF15 story (Bob Storms, price, etc) not as a put down but just to get that part of the school bus story out of the way. Are there not enough AF15 threads? 

Friends?

 

The Santa Fe area including the surrounding community heading up towards the Glorietta Pass at that time (1967)  was an ocean of dead vehicles. You just weren't anyone unless you had at least 12 dead vehicles in your yard and not just any vehicles, stuff from the golden ages. I happpened to have a Dodge Power wagon that had dropped the drain bolt on the differential and warped the casing and needed a replacement, so I began to search the hills for a power wagon. I did find one, did get the entire differential and installed it. It cost about one hundred dollars as I recall but that search led me to strange places looking for parts. One place was Apodaca Hill in Santa Fe where I encountered "The bus".  The bus was not in good shape. It had broken windows, dents, flat dead paint, a "Bluebird" as I recall but that could be wrong. It had two wheels (Front) windshield wipers still in place! and the door ajar. Pressing and cleaning would not help. Ajar doors have drawn me in since Pre  Zork so I poked about. It could have contained Ken Kesey. He scooted around Santa Fe and Taos in his bus "Further" all the time he was there intereacting with the communes. But this appeared more desolate than Ken's piece, way too old. It was not far into the seating area that the box sat. There was a lot of stuff on all the seats. The owner knew I loved comics as I poked at the top offerings and said I should just take it. He's moved to Ohio now and I long ago lost touch with him. I took it and after establishing that there were no rear ends there for a dodge I left. The box contents were remarkable  but at the time not massively valuable, more archival. As I took them out of the box, it was odd how well preserved they were. The surprising one in there was ASM16 which graded out as a 9.2!, just sitting in this half open box in a stack. It had numerous early ASM's including 14 which I sold to a man in Illinois who expressed interest here. I had scanned it and there was a flaw that was quite difficult to see in the scan and there was transactional disappointment but he said he should have caught it so it was on him. I didn't feel good about that so I gave him the Avengers 4. Happy camper after that.  He went on to purchase two ASM 129's from me in the 9.0-9.4 range at a very happy price for him. There were a bunch of X-men, Strange Tales , early FF4. It was a true time capsule of stuff flung in a box and there perhaps years. But, there it was about fifteen books down  an AF15 worth about $80 dollars at the time, about one month's rent!. Had some gunk on the cover. I bought a plastic bag for it! We didn't preserve anything those days.  I just felt weirdly fortunate and tucked it in with my other comics. I used to walk across Santa Fe from my studio, about three miles and every third thursday the comics rack at the bus depot engorged with new material. I would take a five dollar bill and do what I could at .12 a shot. It went out to my little house where my friend and I would devour what the two of us bought. At that time, dealers were rare. Howard Rogofsky sold comics in NYC, the mile high collection was in the future and we just loved our stupid comics. Years went by and I kept it up. My mom had already thrown out all of my .10 cent books and baseball cards but I had fooled her and moved 1,000 miles away. 

So, when I sold the comics at the age of 70, it was because there was no future good to my having them. As I said, it took over a year to get organized and I met a number of charlatans ready to relieve me of the burden. So, sympathizing with new collectors, I simply told my process here on valuation.  As I look back, it's amazing that I allowed Bob Storms to simply walk out of my house with the AF15 consigned without a scrap of paper indicating the arrangement.  The two days I spent with Bob taught me more about comics than I ever could have learned elsewhere. It was stupid of me to ever mention the sales price and I haven't done that in a long time. I would say that 10K alone went to capital gains, double that to the boy and the rest, I bought Mastercard at about $150 a share and these days it's around $320.  So we all did well.  I get stupid lucky with junk like this. As a nine year old, going through rolls of pennies with my brother, I found a 1909-s VDB with actual mint luster traces. Someone had to have intentionally put that coin back in circulation but I sold it to my brother for $75 bucks and that seemed like all the money in the world. I really only liked Buffalo nickels . Sort of like Thor.  I use to win a lot at black out bingo at the beach club with Blue haired old ladies with doilies on their heads for luck  as well. Blackout always coughed  up about $75 bucks too. Those women could really glare.  What a great childhood. 

I still believe there are boxes of books out there to be found.  Around here, there are all these summer houses byt the lake that still have the contents from 1955.  So, no one went to the dump and now those houses are all being cleaned out. They printed a boatload of AF15's Seek and ye might find. You have to look in odd places. But sharing the story is pretty risky. 

Did I mention the bus had split rims?

Edited January 30, 2020 by Glassman10
juicy details

[KCOComics]

6 hours ago, Glassman10 said:

The Santa Fe area including the surrounding community heading up towards the Glorietta Pass at that time (1967)  was an ocean of dead vehicles. You just weren't anyone unless you had at least 12 dead vehicles in your yard and not just any vehicles, stuff from the golden ages. I happpened to have a Dodge Power wagon that had dropped the drain bolt on the differential and warped the casing and needed a replacement, so I began to search the hills for a power wagon. I did find one, did get the entire differential and installed it. It cost about one hundred dollars as I recall but that search led me to strange places looking for parts. One place was Apodaca Hill in Santa Fe where I encountered "The bus".  The bus was not in good shape. It had broken windows, dents, flat dead paint, a "Bluebird" as I recall but that could be wrong. It had two wheels (Front) windshield wipers still in place! and the door ajar. Pressing and cleaning would not help. Ajar doors have drawn me in since Pre  Zork so I poked about. It could have contained Ken Kesey. He scooted around Santa Fe and Taos in his bus "Further" all the time he was there intereacting with the communes. But this appeared more desolate than Ken's piece, way too old. It was not far into the seating area that the box sat. There was a lot of stuff on all the seats. The owner knew I loved comics as I poked at the top offerings and said I should just take it. He's moved to Ohio now and I long ago lost touch with him. I took it and after establishing that there were no rear ends there for a dodge I left. The box contents were remarkable  but at the time not massively valuable, more archival. As I took them out of the box, it was odd how well preserved they were. The surprising one in there was ASM16 which graded out as a 9.2!, just sitting in this half open box in a stack. It had numerous early ASM's including 14 which I sold to a man in Illinois who expressed interest here. I had scanned it and there was a flaw that was quite difficult to see in the scan and there was transactional disappointment but he said he should have caught it so it was on him. I didn't feel good about that so I gave him the Avengers 4. Happy camper after that.  He went on to purchase two ASM 129's from me in the 9.0-9.4 range at a very happy price for him. There were a bunch of X-men, Strange Tales , early FF4. It was a true time capsule of stuff flung in a box and there perhaps years. But, there it was about fifteen books down  an AF15 worth about $80 dollars at the time, about one month's rent!. Had some gunk on the cover. I bought a plastic bag for it! We didn't preserve anything those days.  I just felt weirdly fortunate and tucked it in with my other comics. I used to walk across Santa Fe from my studio, about three miles and every third thursday the comics rack at the bus depot engorged with new material. I would take a five dollar bill and do what I could at .12 a shot. It went out to my little house where my friend and I would devour what the two of us bought. At that time, dealers were rare. Howard Rogofsky sold comics in NYC, the mile high collection was in the future and we just loved our stupid comics. Years went by and I kept it up. My mom had already thrown out all of my .10 cent books and baseball cards but I had fooled her and moved 1,000 miles away. 

So, when I sold the comics at the age of 70, it was because there was no future good to my having them. As I said, it took over a year to get organized and I met a number of charlatans ready to relieve me of the burden. So, sympathizing with new collectors, I simply told my process here on valuation.  As I look back, it's amazing that I allowed Bob Storms to simply walk out of my house with the AF15 consigned without a scrap of paper indicating the arrangement.  The two days I spent with Bob taught me more about comics than I ever could have learned elsewhere. It was stupid of me to ever mention the sales price and I haven't done that in a long time. I would say that 10K alone went to capital gains, double that to the boy and the rest, I bought Mastercard at about $150 a share and these days it's around $320.  So we all did well.  I get stupid lucky with junk like this. As a nine year old, going through rolls of pennies with my brother, I found a 1909-s VDB with actual mint luster traces. Someone had to have intentionally put that coin back in circulation but I sold it to my brother for $75 bucks and that seemed like all the money in the world. I really only liked Buffalo nickels . Sort of like Thor.  I use to win a lot at black out bingo at the beach club with Blue haired old ladies with doilies on their heads for luck  as well. Blackout always coughed  up about $75 bucks too. Those women could really glare.  What a great childhood. 

I still believe there are boxes of books out there to be found.  Around here, there are all these summer houses byt the lake that still have the contents from 1955.  So, no one went to the dump and now those houses are all being cleaned out. They printed a boatload of AF15's Seek and ye might find. You have to look in odd places. But sharing the story is pretty risky. 

Did I mention the bus had split rims?

I'm yet to figure out how to quote just a section of a story. 

Glassman - thank you for sharing! What an amazing and well told story! 

I'm glad you took care of it for all those years and the value materialized so much. 

I'll be keeping my eyes open for old buses and houses being cleaned out