When buying comics at a convention... 2 2

[RCheli]

...do you take into consideration what you're paying compared with other means?

For example, if you're buying on eBay, you need to add in shipping and taxes. If you're buying at an auction house (Heritage, ComicLink), you have those plus a (not insignificant) buyer's premium.

I often have to compete (as do others selling at shows) with a price that is not actually the real price. So a $60 graded comic on eBay may actually turn out to be closer to $80 after taxes and shipping are added in. And that same cost consideration is not included in the GPA price either. ("You're asking $120, and I only pay 90-day GPA when I buy, which is $100." "Yeah, well, good luck actually paying only $100 for that comic when you complete the sale." Customer walks away.)

And while I don't really deal in big-ticket books, that price differential can get pretty considerable with the hefty priced keys.

Thoughts?

 

[Deadpoolica]

You won't like this but, my 

If you have a book for $60 on eBay & tax/shipping brings it to $80(which really that shouldn't ever be the case) fine, the buyer has to be ok with paying shipping cost

 BUT, I'm not paying you $80 at a convention for it you don't have those additional shipping expenses(don't say booth fees, gas, employees...you do not have to be at the convention, you chose to come)

 

As far as what you said about GPA, they shouldn't add those additional costs into their pricing. The book is selling for $100, shipping, eBay fees, paypal fees, tax...none of that is the cost of the book.

AND yes, that person will buy that book for GPA somewhere for $100. The more likely scenario  from another dealer at the same show you're at 

 

On 1/27/2020 at 4:24 PM, RCheli said:

("You're asking $120, and I only pay 90-day GPA when I buy, which is $100." "Yeah, well, good luck actually paying only $100 for that comic when you complete the sale." Customer walks away.)

This whole thing is ridiculous, for you as a seller to say that to a potential buyer is crazy. You're not making that sale regardless now or future sales to that customer, they will avoid you like the plague at any show they see you it 

I could really go on & on about this but, I'll stop 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Deadpoolica

[RCheli]

14 minutes ago, Deadpoolica said:

This whole thing is ridiculous, for you as a seller to say that to a potential buyer is crazy. You're not making that sell regardless now or future sells to that customer, they will avoid you like the plague at any show they see you it & tell their comic friends to avoid you too

I could really go on & on about this but, I'll stop 

I can tell you that when people pull out their phones to show me a similar book on eBay for $5 less than what I'm charging (and it's happened A LOT), I will then point to the shipping (and mention tax) to explain to them why my price is still a bargain. Why would you think it matters to a person that they're getting X-Fellas #1 9.8 from me for $50 when it would be shipped to them for the same amount?

[Lazyboy]

1 hour ago, RCheli said:

...do you take into consideration what you're paying compared with other means?

For example, if you're buying on eBay, you need to add in shipping and taxes. If you're buying at an auction house (Heritage, ComicLink), you have those plus a (not insignificant) buyer's premium.

I often have to compete (as do others selling at shows) with a price that is not actually the real price. So a $60 graded comic on eBay may actually turn out to be closer to $80 after taxes and shipping are added in. And that same cost consideration is not included in the GPA price either. ("You're asking $120, and I only pay 90-day GPA when I buy, which is $100." "Yeah, well, good luck actually paying only $100 for that comic when you complete the sale." Customer walks away.)

And while I don't really deal in big-ticket books, that price differential can get pretty considerable with the hefty priced keys.

Thoughts?

 

As a buyer, I always consider all costs of acquisition because I'm not an insufficiently_thoughtful_person.

As a seller, I've never really had anybody try to negotiate by arguing that the book they want is nominally cheaper elsewhere before factoring in additional costs.

[Lazyboy]

30 minutes ago, Deadpoolica said:

If you have a book for $60 on eBay & tax/shipping brings it to $80(which really that shouldn't ever be the case) fine, the buyer has to be ok with paying shipping cost

 BUT, I'm not paying you $80 at a convention for it you don't have those additional shipping expenses(don't say booth fees, gas, employees...you do not have to be at the convention, you chose to come)

That's nice, but you haven't explained how or where the buyer gets the book for less than $80.

32 minutes ago, Deadpoolica said:

for you as a seller to say that to a potential buyer is crazy. You're not making that sell regardless now or future sells to that customer, they will avoid you like the plague at any show they see you it & tell their comic friends to avoid you too

Wow, you have an even lower opinion of the average person's intelligence than I do!

[NoMan]

you know why I'll never "win" in this hobby? "Winning" defined as making a buck or two when I go to sell. When i see a book I want, I pull out my money and give it to the dealer who has the book I want. I really don't check anything or spend all day dicking with the phone.

Now this only goes for the couple of dealers around here who have good reputations that I've dealt with before or  two stores here in LA that I like or some in Houston when I go there. Heck I don't even bother "making an offer" when it says "make an offer." 

When I was a child I fell on a wheelbarrow and smashed my head bad. I got home from the hospital the next day and was then immediately hit in the head with a golf club. I believe this is the cause of me not really caring the costs of things I want

Edited January 27, 2020 by NoMan

[Deadpoolica]

33 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

That's nice, but you haven't explained how or where the buyer gets the book for less than $80.

Wow, you have an even lower opinion of the average person's intelligence than I do!

They'll find someone with free shipping...patience  

[revat]

I'd say just use your best and friendliest logic to negotiate your price as best you can.  If you make a deal, great.  If not, not a ton of choice but to move on.  Either way, don't be rude or take it personally (unless they make it personal).  If possible, try to have other people around so the opposite side can't make obviously disingenuous or illogical arguments so easily.

[Deadpoolica]

51 minutes ago, RCheli said:

I can tell you that when people pull out their phones to show me a similar book on eBay for $5 less than what I'm charging (and it's happened A LOT), I will then point to the shipping (and mention tax) to explain to them why my price is still a bargain. Why would you think it matters to a person that they're getting X-Fellas #1 9.8 from me for $50 when it would be shipped to them for the same amount?

I don't blame you for doing that...if someones going to really do that over $5  I wouldn't want them as a customer either

It may not matter to a lot of people about getting something at a show/store for the same price as eBay...to me it does, rather just stay home & not waste time/money

[blazingbob]

I wish people would realize GPA is not a STORE.  It reflects the last sale and history of the book that sold in that grade.  It is all well and good that the last person sold it for that but that doesn't mean the guy/woman in front of you has to.  GPA also isn't the only "STORE" with pricing/sales information.  Since most of the data in GPA is coming from auction houses/ebay that are collecting sales tax you can basically assume an additional 8-10% on top of the GPA number.  Now the person in front of you may or may not be charging sales tax on your purchase.  That either helps you or doesn't.  I agree with the one poster that it is my choice to set up at a convention and I have costs to do the show.  I also have costs in running my website,  in taking electronic payments and other costs of doing business.  Auction houses and dealers will always have competition issues with weekend warriors who don't pay sales tax or fly under the radar.   To me Ebay is a electronic flea market and if you are looking for common books (like white socks) you will always be able to get the 12 pack for a great deal when paying cash.  But if I'm looking for something a little harder I'm not so sure the flea market is the best representation of what the book is worth.     

Edited January 27, 2020 by blazingbob

[LordRahl]

1 hour ago, RCheli said:

I can tell you that when people pull out their phones to show me a similar book on eBay for $5 less than what I'm charging (and it's happened A LOT), I will then point to the shipping (and mention tax) to explain to them why my price is still a bargain. Why would you think it matters to a person that they're getting X-Fellas #1 9.8 from me for $50 when it would be shipped to them for the same amount?

This is never my experience at shows. It's more like 2-3x what I can get a book at on ebay. If it were $5 bucks, yes I'd take all factors into account. But when the starting price is literally more than double and sometimes triple what I know I can buy it for online, why would I bother? Just went to a show in Stockton where this was exactly the case with both raw and graded books. I know I can negotiate but when I'd literally have to offer 1/3 of the asking price, I just don't bother. I had one dealer tell me everything was negotiable, especially the more I buy... that guys was charging $250 for a CGC graded 9.4 copy of Moon Knight 1. They sell for less than a $100 on a regular basis and it's not like the shipping and taxes on top of that is going to make up the difference. That one book wasn't the exception either, everything I looked at was grossly overpriced. I'm not really sure who's buying this stuff at anything even close to what was being asked. 

Edited January 27, 2020 by LordRahl

[Lazyboy]

20 minutes ago, Deadpoolica said:

They'll find someone with free shipping...patience  

Patience is something else entirely. I'm very patient when buying, but that doesn't (necessarily) get me a specific book for my price right now.

But the guy they find eventually find who's offering free shipping is asking $100 for the book.

[LordRahl]

2 hours ago, RCheli said:

...do you take into consideration what you're paying compared with other means?

For example, if you're buying on eBay, you need to add in shipping and taxes. If you're buying at an auction house (Heritage, ComicLink), you have those plus a (not insignificant) buyer's premium.

I often have to compete (as do others selling at shows) with a price that is not actually the real price. So a $60 graded comic on eBay may actually turn out to be closer to $80 after taxes and shipping are added in. And that same cost consideration is not included in the GPA price either. ("You're asking $120, and I only pay 90-day GPA when I buy, which is $100." "Yeah, well, good luck actually paying only $100 for that comic when you complete the sale." Customer walks away.)

And while I don't really deal in big-ticket books, that price differential can get pretty considerable with the hefty priced keys.

Thoughts?

 

Also, CL doesn't have a buyers premium. Heritage's is atrociously high but I factor it into my bid as I think most do so it's really only impacting the seller.

[Deadpoolica]

4 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Patience is something else entirely. I'm very patient when buying, but that doesn't (necessarily) get me a specific book for my price right now.

But the guy they find eventually find who's offering free shipping is asking $100 for the book.

Ain't that the truth   

[blazingbob]

40 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

Also, CL doesn't have a buyers premium. Heritage's is atrociously high but I factor it into my bid as I think most do so it's really only impacting the seller.

What if I'm the seller?  

Sales tax impacts what I will net for the book since buyers are bidding lower to account for the tax, consignment fee impacts what I get for the book, paypal fees will impact what the seller nets for the book on ebay, buyer premiums will impact what the seller nets for the book if applicable.  Not exactly seeing why the auction houses or ebay are the best places to sell books right now.  

[LordRahl]

7 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

What if I'm the seller?  

Sales tax impacts what I will net for the book since buyers are bidding lower to account for the tax, consignment fee impacts what I get for the book, paypal fees will impact what the seller nets for the book on ebay, buyer premiums will impact what the seller nets for the book if applicable.  Not exactly seeing why the auction houses or ebay are the best places to sell books right now.  

Didn't say they were. I was only speaking from the perspective of a buyer and addressing the OP's post that they have a buyers premium that isn't being figured in when buying. When I'm buying, I figure the buyers premium into my bid on Heritage and CL doesn't have one for me to figure in. 

To address your post, the auction houses and feebay could be the best place to sell depending on what you're selling, how quick you want to sell it etc. They aren't necessarily always the best place to sell though. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by LordRahl

[revat]

2 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

9 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

What if I'm the seller?  

Sales tax impacts what I will net for the book since buyers are bidding lower to account for the tax, consignment fee impacts what I get for the book, paypal fees will impact what the seller nets for the book on ebay, buyer premiums will impact what the seller nets for the book if applicable.  Not exactly seeing why the auction houses or ebay are the best places to sell books right now.  

Didn't say they were. I was only speaking from the perspective of a buyer and addressing the OP's post that they have a buyers premium that isn't being figured in when buying. When I'm buying, I figure the buyers premium into my bid on Heritage and CL doesn't have one for me to figure in. 

To address your post, the auction houses and feebay could be the best place to sell depending on what you're selling, how quick you want to sell it etc. They aren't necessarily always the best place to sell though. 

I think one of the things that can be a double-edged sword to more 'reasonable' dealers at shows/conventions is that the gouging (or misinformed) dealers make buyers disenchanted to the point where people stop physically going to shows to buy.  On the other hand, being the most reasonable seller at a show might also get you more business because your prices are more realistic, and might build your reputation and get you repeat customers. 

One of my local LCS's goes to zillions of shows with his overpriced stock in shiny mylars at "1/2 price", which he normally just has in his shop also at half price which no one buys.  His slabs are ultra overpriced like 2x-3x GPA.  BUT I think he makes a good living with a nice clean friendly shop selling TPB's, gaming trading cards, and new comics.  He uses the shows as advertising, can write off all the expenses, take cash for sales tax free, and call it a day.  It doesn't seem like he has any intention of making money.  But I can see how it would be frustrating for other convention dealers who actually want to sell things.

[Djrodunchained]

If you feel someone's prices are crazy high, go elsewhere or make an offer. You can find pretty much any book you want, at any time. It feels like a sense of entitlement that any buyer feels they deserve a book at a specific price you see at another venue. Go buy it elsewhere and go along your merry way. I'm only a buyer, but if a price is within a range that feels reasonable to me, I'll buy it. If the owner says to make an offer, I'll submit what I feel is not insulting. It usually gets accepted or countered and everyone is happy. I'm also not looking to flip any books for a few bucks, so I may be in the minority.

[blazingbob]

Unfortunately the comic business has a underlying "Us/Dealers vs them" mentality.

Dealers complain about customers,  customers complain about dealers.  

Why this occurs is because there are a lot of dealers/customers who don't or don't know how to communicate with each other.  Rather then a short term hurting of feelings one or the other goes away without knowing why a sale/deal didn't occur.  

[Hamlet]

1 hour ago, LordRahl said:

This is never my experience at shows. It's more like 2-3x what I can get a book at on ebay. If it were $5 bucks, yes I'd take all factors into account. But when the starting price is literally more than double and sometimes triple what I know I can buy it for online, why would I bother? Just went to a show in Stockton where this was exactly the case with both raw and graded books. I know I can negotiate but when I'd literally have to offer 1/3 of the asking price, I just don't bother. I had one dealer tell me everything was negotiable, especially the more I buy... that guys was charging $250 for a CGC graded 9.4 copy of Moon Knight 1. They sell for less than a $100 on a regular basis and it's not like the shipping and taxes on top of that is going to make up the difference. That one book wasn't the exception either, everything I looked at was grossly overpriced. I'm not really sure who's buying this stuff at anything even close to what was being asked. 

I agree that most key books are more expensive at the shows I go to than online.  However, the non-key books are often cheaper, do to the cost of shipping and the fact that books are hiding in boxes.  The bargains online get snapped up fast because they are searchable.  At a small show, someone has to actually dig thru the boxes and find the bargains.  There are rarely bargain wall books, but there are usually some reasonably priced books in the boxes.