When buying comics at a convention... 2 2

[october]

1 hour ago, LordRahl said:

This is never my experience at shows. It's more like 2-3x what I can get a book at on ebay. If it were $5 bucks, yes I'd take all factors into account. But when the starting price is literally more than double and sometimes triple what I know I can buy it for online, why would I bother? Just went to a show in Stockton where this was exactly the case with both raw and graded books. I know I can negotiate but when I'd literally have to offer 1/3 of the asking price, I just don't bother. I had one dealer tell me everything was negotiable, especially the more I buy... that guys was charging $250 for a CGC graded 9.4 copy of Moon Knight 1. They sell for less than a $100 on a regular basis and it's not like the shipping and taxes on top of that is going to make up the difference. That one book wasn't the exception either, everything I looked at was grossly overpriced. I'm not really sure who's buying this stuff at anything even close to what was being asked. 

The last three or four shows I went to resulted in such sticker shock I literally stopped going. It's completely pointless.

At the final show, I played a game with a dealer's stock, a person known for being a "dealer's dealer" or at least a guy with reasonable prices. I evaluated the comic, mentally figured what I could SELL it for, then compared. His prices were triple what I felt was retail. 

Unless the show is in my back yard, it's not worth it. Amazing how much things have shifted in the last few years.

[Ryan.]

3 hours ago, Deadpoolica said:

You're not making that sell regardless now or future sells to that customer

 

 

Is saying "sell" instead of "sale" a regional thing? 

[Ryan.]

41 minutes ago, Djrodunchained said:

You can find pretty much any book you want, at any time. 

Not true for GA collectors. 

[dupont2005]

Plenty of items ship free. Which means not only are you paying $60 on eBay for a slab you might have listed for $80, but the seller is eating shipping, eBay, and PayPal costs on the deal. Haven’t paid much attention to how often I pay taxes on eBay, but I know it’s more frequent than it used to be. The advantage you have is they can inspect the book in person and walk home with it that day knowing it won’t be lost or damaged in the mail. Play up your advantages and cater to those who value them. You don’t necessarily have to meet eBay prices if you are a great salesman, but it would be beneficial if you could also remain competitive in pricing too. At a convention you don’t have to set GPA lows, just be cheaper than the next vendor 

[Old_Man_Adam]

IMO-I think what a seller has as his “ wall books” is indicative of what kind of sale is going to happen - guys that tend to have just all star killer stuff are usually overpriced , guys that have $20 books marked up as “ keys” are generally overpriced . I try to do business with guys that love comics - they collect , they buy , the sell to offshoot some expenses and normally have other jobs . Going to conventions for me is more about potentially getting a book signed , filling gaps in my runs and having excellent conversation than for scoring a FF#1 which is way outta my price range anyway .

Edited January 28, 2020 by Old_Man_Adam
Further ranting

[Foolkiller]

I guess I'm an old dinosaur who loves buying in person from collectors or dealers.  I like the face to face nature of the transaction.  I think you can still acquire big books at or even below market at a show.  I bought an Albedo 2 CGC 9.8 from a major national dealer this year and a beautiful Mask 1 CGC 4.5 from a private collector -- I don't know that there's just one place to buy from that's better than the other.  I find when buying the big books you can wait for auction and get into a war especially on a high end eye appeal book or you can buy it privately from a major dealer who sources it for you and makes it an easy transaction.  Often time payments and other flexibility makes dealing with the national dealer just so much easier.  the TOS 39 CGC 9.0 and JIM 83 CGC 8.0 were a breeze and I paid right on market. 

[JollyComics]

Some comic book dealers offer time payment.  One time, I made the offer to him for one particular book and did the time payment - I sent him one check per month for next two months before the show.  I made final payment in cash at his booth. It saved me about 14%.  You can do negotiations with the sellers before or during the shows.  I have done few times without any problems.

[alexgross.com]

@Bunky Brian and @blazingbob are two of the best in the biz. their prices are reasonable, they negotiate fairly and in good faith, and they've got great stuff. missed bob at the cali comic con this weekend. i scored a few real nice books there for market price and way under market ( thanks bunky!) it really just depends on the dealers and the books in question. i've learned which dealers i like to do business with, and which ones i don't. i still love comic cons and am grateful that there are still some class acts out there. (kudos to gator too)

[jokiing]

4 hours ago, dupont2005 said:

Plenty of items ship free. Which means not only are you paying $60 on eBay for a slab you might have listed for $80, but the seller is eating shipping, eBay, and PayPal costs on the deal. Haven’t paid much attention to how often I pay taxes on eBay, but I know it’s more frequent than it used to be. The advantage you have is they can inspect the book in person and walk home with it that day knowing it won’t be lost or damaged in the mail. Play up your advantages and cater to those who value them. You don’t necessarily have to meet eBay prices if you are a great salesman, but it would be beneficial if you could also remain competitive in pricing too. At a convention you don’t have to set GPA lows, just be cheaper than the next vendor 

I like what you said about inspecting a comic in person... big advantage with raw... but as for ebay dealers eating shipping and fees, unless they're not the brightest bulb in the draw, those cost are figured into their asking price.

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Well, for lower end books, say under $100, I do add the partial cost of shipping to my sticker prices, especially for slabs, as that's what people are willing to pay online. Also, the convenience of being able to obtain a book in person has a certain value. No wait, no risk of loss/damage in transit, no customs fees, etc. That's how I approach it and no one gives me a hard time.

Edited January 28, 2020 by KEY ISSUES Comics

[theCapraAegagrus]

I would be conscious of prices elsewhere, but I may pay around or very slightly above other venue prices just for the "have it now" factor.

Let's say I'm looking to upgrade my Action Comics #684. It's on eBay for $120 all-in. I'd pay $125 at a show just because I don't have to wait for it. If I can haggle it down below eBay, then awesome! If there's no wiggle room; I'll suck it up.

I have a fluid budget, though, and everyone's MMV. Some people need to fill their collection with a strict budget, and I have nothing against that.

So, personally conscious of other prices, but not afraid to pull the trigger if it's at/above and it fits my budget.

[1Cool]

Great discussion.  This is one of the major reasons I stopped setting up at shows.  Why would I go thru the back breaking work of setting up at a weekend show and then have all buyers of books over $20 quote E-Bay prices and try to get the book for less then the lowest price on e-bay.  Never mind grade - never mind shipping and taxes - never mind the benefit of seeing it in person.  I don't mind people being cheap with their money - it's theirs but I'd rather deal with cheap people on E-Bay where the work is a ton less.

I've not heard the usual counter argument from buyers where they compare the price they paid to get in and the gas to drive there which is why they only pay GPA or lowest e-bay prices.  Why should they eat all those expenses and still pay over E-Bay prices when they could stay at home and get books delivered to them.  My response is going to cons should be fun and exciting and worth the price of admittance regardless of the books.  Try setting up at a weekend con as a dealer and tell me the experience was all fun.  I do agree with Bob that the market has morphed into a us vs them attitude where we all seem to be losing.

Edited January 28, 2020 by 1Cool

[MetalPSI]

12 hours ago, october said:

The last three or four shows I went to resulted in such sticker shock I literally stopped going. It's completely pointless.

At the final show, I played a game with a dealer's stock, a person known for being a "dealer's dealer" or at least a guy with reasonable prices. I evaluated the comic, mentally figured what I could SELL it for, then compared. His prices were triple what I felt was retail. 

Unless the show is in my back yard, it's not worth it. Amazing how much things have shifted in the last few years.

Very well said. We have one show a year here and I buy from one booth each year because of "sticker shock". A lot of guys travel from across canada to be here and it seems to me such a waste because their prices are extraordinary high. I imagine they do that to pay for going to the show, but how is it I always gravitate to a particular booth from Montreal each show? The prices they have rival and even destroy local back issue stores. It's really really sad actually. 

Then again, every year it gets less about comics and more about "pop" culture. 

[Turtle]

12 hours ago, Ryan. said:

Is saying "sell" instead of "sale" a regional thing? 

It's not.  But it does drive me up the wall when I see it. 

[musicmeta]

One of these days, I was going to try setting up a local convention for the "fun" of it.  I'm not trying to make a bunch of money but if I can recover my cost of setting up like convention fees for the space, food and other expenses which I can't think of right now, I'll be more than fine with that.  Main reason is to talk, meet and interact with collectors and dealers and if possible, buy a few books that are on my want list.  Just try to enjoy the experience as much as possible.  I know there is a lot of work and effort to setting up in which a lot of it is physical.
I think it would be a real learning experience being on the other side for a change...in not being a buyer walking the convention floor.   I know you have to do a lot of organizing and planning on how to setup to attract folks.
It would be just comic books and comic magazines for me. 
I hope I can make this happen some day. 
 

Edited January 28, 2020 by musicmeta

[1Cool]

13 minutes ago, musicmeta said:

One of these days, I was going to try setting up a local convention for the "fun" of it.  I'm not trying to make a bunch of money but if I can recover my cost of setting up like convention fees for the space, food and other expenses which I can't think of right now, I'll be more than fine with that.  Main reason is to talk, meet and interact with collectors and dealers and if possible, buy a few books that are on my want list.  Just try to enjoy the experience as much as possible.  I know there is a lot of work and effort to setting up in which a lot of it is physical.
I think it would be a real learning experience being on the other side for a change...in not being a buyer walking the convention floor.   I know you have to do a lot of organizing and planning on how to setup to attract folks.
It would be just comic books and comic magazines for me. 
I hope I can make this happen some day. 
 

Definitely do this.  It is an eye opening experience to say the least.  It may be wise to start off by helping a dealer you know at his booth and get your feet wet before jumping in.  There is so much to think about like load in procedure, theft and bathroom breaks that you don't really think about when walking around a con.  But remember a break even is still a loss if you have money invested in your books and if all that sells is hot books that would have sold easily online.  But give it a shot and let us know how it goes.

[october]

25 minutes ago, musicmeta said:

One of these days, I was going to try setting up a local convention for the "fun" of it.  I'm not trying to make a bunch of money but if I can recover my cost of setting up like convention fees for the space, food and other expenses which I can't think of right now, I'll be more than fine with that.  Main reason is to talk, meet and interact with collectors and dealers and if possible, buy a few books that are on my want list.  Just try to enjoy the experience as much as possible.  I know there is a lot of work and effort to setting up in which a lot of it is physical.
I think it would be a real learning experience being on the other side for a change...in not being a buyer walking the convention floor.   I know you have to do a lot of organizing and planning on how to setup to attract folks.
It would be just comic books and comic magazines for me. 
I hope I can make this happen some day. 
 

I've set up at C2E2, Wizard Chicago, and local shows. It's worth just for the new hobby perspective alone. I did the larger shows when I had significant new collections in (which I advertised) and the feeding frenzies during setup were pretty crazy to watch. I had buddies helping me and the experiences shocked/confused them. They still talk about it, and the characters they met, years later. Selling to the public is also an education. People have such a wide spectrum of buying and haggling habits. I am glad I did it when I had the chance, before family and work constraints shut the door on the opportunity. 

[blazingbob]

2 hours ago, 1Cool said:

Great discussion.  This is one of the major reasons I stopped setting up at shows.  Why would I go thru the back breaking work of setting up at a weekend show and then have all buyers of books over $20 quote E-Bay prices and try to get the book for less then the lowest price on e-bay.  Never mind grade - never mind shipping and taxes - never mind the benefit of seeing it in person.  I don't mind people being cheap with their money - it's theirs but I'd rather deal with cheap people on E-Bay where the work is a ton less.

I've not heard the usual counter argument from buyers where they compare the price they paid to get in and the gas to drive there which is why they only pay GPA or lowest e-bay prices.  Why should they eat all those expenses and still pay over E-Bay prices when they could stay at home and get books delivered to them.  My response is going to cons should be fun and exciting and worth the price of admittance regardless of the books.  Try setting up at a weekend con as a dealer and tell me the experience was all fun.  I do agree with Bob that the market has morphed into a us vs them attitude where we all see to be losing.

I agree that if most people truly figured out the real cost of buying a lot of items they would be surprised.

A dealers cost is 

1).  Cost of the inventory,  books aren't free and very few sellers are selling high grade at 1/2 of OSPG

2).  Shiny mylars/mylites, boards.  Adds .50-$1 cost to each book.  

3).  CGC/CBCS or any other graded comic.  Adds up to 25% to the cost of the raw book.  

4).  Booth cost

5).  Hotels

6).  Food

7).  Gas

8).  Insurance

9).  Paying help if applicable

10).  Electronic payment costs 1-4%

For any multiple 3 day show my minimum cost is $3500.  Now while many of you think that dealers profit margins are 50-100% think again.  I have to make $3500 profit to break even,  not $3500 in sales.  If you are telling yourself you did $3500 and made money I suggest a little honesty check with yourself because unless you got that inventory for $0 you LOST money.

A online venue will always have a price advantage since there is no booth cost,  no hotel,  food is whatever you buy at home, gas is only the cost to drive the books to the shipping agent.  Problem when you rely just on online sales is the constant need to have new stuff and driving traffic to your online store or ebay id.  You are also very reliant on third party information when it comes to what is selling and what is not.  Now while some of you would prefer not to do anything face to face sometimes you need to go out to a show to see what sells and what doesn't.  There is just as much mis-information as real information.   

Edited January 28, 2020 by blazingbob

[1Cool]

1 hour ago, IkewithMike said:

Very well said. We have one show a year here and I buy from one booth each year because of "sticker shock". A lot of guys travel from across canada to be here and it seems to me such a waste because their prices are extraordinary high. I imagine they do that to pay for going to the show, but how is it I always gravitate to a particular booth from Montreal each show? The prices they have rival and even destroy local back issue stores. It's really really sad actually. 

Then again, every year it gets less about comics and more about "pop" culture. 

Pop culture is exploding since kids and moms don't price check every $5 button their kids buy where as the comic guys are pulling out e-bay for a $5 book.  Charging 2-3x of FMV seems like a dumb move but I've seen dealers with pretty spot on prices have a terrible show since everyone is looking for a steal.   

[blazingbob]

11 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

Pop culture is exploding since kids and moms don't price check every $5 button their kids buy where as the comic guys are pulling out e-bay for a $5 book.  Charging 2-3x of FMV seems like a dumb move but I've seen dealers with pretty spot on prices have a terrible show since everyone is looking for a steal.   

So what is the bible of Fair Market value?  

I've had buyers use every one of the below

GPA 

 - Last GPA sale

 - 90 day GPA sale

- 12 month GPA sale

Go Collect

I have guys whipping out the Overstreet price guide

Comicpriceguide.com

Comiclink last sale which I can either verify or can't.

Ebay

Each of the above depending on what that particular buyer is using can result in a "No sale" or "2-3X FMV" type comment depending on how your price stacks up.  Most buyers don't wait long enough to even ask when did I price that particular item which may give some insight on why I'm 2-3X FMV.  Comic dealer pricing is NOT Nasdaq Electronic trading quotes updating instantly based on bid/ask spreads.

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by blazingbob