When buying comics at a convention... 2 2

[1Cool]

2 minutes ago, KEY ISSUES Comics said:

 

I'm not ashamed to say that I'm one of those dealers, at least with relatively inexpensive books, such as the example quoted above. I strongly believe the raw vs graded price discrepancies should be reserved for high grade copies and expensive books, say four figure and higher. I really don't see why a slab should fetch significantly more than it's raw counterpart in such a grade and price point. 

The slab has value to it.  The security, ease of selling and a defined grade is part of what you are paying for in my opinion and should be factored into the price.  Now if you are that confident in your grading that you are willing to guarantee a grade and charge more then I think you should knock off the $20 it cost to get the book graded since the book is only that price because its in the case and CGC says its a 9.2 copy (even in lower price books).  There does come a threshold where I would agree with you because some books shouldn't be in a case and I'm not paying $30 for a New Mutants 100 in a CGC 8.5 case - you shouldn't have graded it if it was a 8.5 contender.

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

12 minutes ago, Deadpoolica said:

...because the slab has already been paid to be graded. 

I understand, but I don't add the cost of the certification to a comic. I wouldn't charge at least $20USD for UNCANNY X-MEN #348 CGC 2.0 because someone paid to have it graded. It should be in the recycling bin.

Edited January 28, 2020 by KEY ISSUES Comics

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

1 minute ago, 1Cool said:

The slab has value to it.  The security, ease of selling and a defined grade is part of what you are paying for in my opinion and should be factored into the price.  Now if you are that confident in your grading that you are willing to guarantee a grade and charge more then I think you should knock off the $20 it cost to get the book graded since the book is only that price because its in the case and CGC says its a 9.2 copy (even in lower price books).  There does come a threshold where I would agree with you because some books shouldn't be in a case and I'm not paying $30 for a New Mutants 100 in a CGC 8.5 case - you shouldn't have graded it if it was a 8.5 contender.

I agree in an online environment, but I'm not going to sell my raw for less in person where the person can inspect it themselves. Plus, how many times do we hear folks complain that they do not agree with a slabbed book's grade? It's not the end all be all, especially not for the type of books I'm referring to.

[1Cool]

13 minutes ago, KEY ISSUES Comics said:

I agree in an online environment, but I'm not going to sell my raw for less in person where the person can inspect it themselves. Plus, how many times do we hear folks complain that they do not agree with a slabbed book's grade? It's not the end all be all, especially not for the type of books I'm referring to.

Give me an example?  The New Mutants 100 in CGC 8.5 and the Uncanny X-Men #348 CGC 2.0 are extremes but what kind of book are you using CGC prices for raw books?

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

5 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

Give me an example?  The New Mutants 100 in CGC 8.5 and the Uncanny X-Men #348 CGC 2.0 are extremes but what kind of book are you using CGC prices for raw books?

Any lower end Bronze/Copper/Silver Age book that's in the $30-100CAD range in the 3.0-8.0 range to give a rough idea. There are exceptions of course. The price spread is so low on these types of books that raw or graded makes no difference to me.

But, I'm different that way I guess. 

I think we can agree that the market is all over the place though.

[blazingbob]

4 minutes ago, KEY ISSUES Comics said:

Any lower end Bronze/Copper/Silver Age book that's in the $30-100CAD range in the 3.0-8.0 range to give a rough idea. There are exceptions of course. The price spread is so low on these types of books that raw or graded makes no difference to me.

But, I'm different that way I guess. 

I think we can agree that the market is all over the place though.

For me to use GPA pricing on a raw book it would have to be a key or a movie book.  I would not use GPA to price raw books that fell outside of those parameters.

[Krismusic]

1 hour ago, blazingbob said:

Now the other thing I caution is if you as a buyer do make an substantial offer less then the sticker and the dealer accepts it you better not come back with "I'll think about it".  I had a customer do that on a Superman #14 and believe me I wasn't happy with that response.  

I agree with that if you come to a price honor it! dont offer if your not willing to pay. 

[Krismusic]

1 hour ago, F For Fake said:

Before I go to a show, if I'm looking for a specific book(s), I'll do a little research on GPA and eBay and get an idea of the general range that a book might sell for in a given condition. I think it's good to be informed. But I'd never, ever bring up other sales to a dealer as a means of haggling. Just seems rude. It's their book, they can charge whatever they want to charge, and I assume they have their reasons for asking what they're asking. If I like the book at their price, I'll buy it. If I don't, I won't. If I feel like what I want to pay is within a reasonable distance of what they're asking, I may ask if they'd consider meeting me halfway. But I certainly wouldn't make a scene of pointing out to them that they're overcharging, complete with GPA/eBay sales data. Seems tacky. I dunno, maybe it's not a big deal, but the very idea makes me wince. 

I am almost kind of the same way but I would sometimes say well GPA 90 day is at this I would be comfortable at "x" price.. if a deal can be made then great if not and the counter is not what I am comfortable with given the many other factors that goes into buying a book.. then it is what it is and on to the next thing... I won't sit and argue with someone and want a book at a price they don't want to sell.

[Krismusic]

1 hour ago, Deadpoolica said:

Completely get that, I really think people have forgotten(or never learned) how to have a normal discussion with anyone these days 

When will people learn that Cash is King? Never understand people not bringing cash to conventions

kind of hard to walk in a large city with a few thousand in your pocket if your going to make some large purchases... just saying.. your heart tends to beat a bit fast and your constantly looking around and thinking fast... 

[manetteska]

1 hour ago, blazingbob said:

I appreciate the examples and was just giving my dealer guess on why he might be pricing the way he does.

Besides the Us versus them mentality is the "Nobody wants to leave any money on the table" mindset that is out there.  And that is from both sides of the table.

 

Will you be setup at C2E2 this year?

[LordRahl]

27 minutes ago, KEY ISSUES Comics said:

Any lower end Bronze/Copper/Silver Age book that's in the $30-100CAD range in the 3.0-8.0 range to give a rough idea. There are exceptions of course. The price spread is so low on these types of books that raw or graded makes no difference to me.

But, I'm different that way I guess. 

I think we can agree that the market is all over the place though.

It should make a difference to you. Leave out the potential grading discrepancy that what you grade a 9.0 might come back from CGC as an 8/8.5. This is of course a potential problem but I'm going to ignore this just to make the argument simpler. Take a bronze book that sells for $100 in CGC 9.2, let's say ASM 103 for example. You charge $100 for it slabbed and you charge $100 for it raw as a 9.2. You are ignoring that the slab itself costs money. As a buyer, if I bought your raw 9.2 and then wanted to get it slabbed, I would have to pay around $30 to get it graded. But I can buy it already graded for $100. Why in the world would I pay an extra $30 for your raw copy just to have to do the work myself, and take the risk of a lower grade to boot? You can look at it as the book itself is only worth $70 and the slab literally adds $30 in value.

[blazingbob]

8 minutes ago, manetteska said:

Will you be setup at C2E2 this year?

I will be there

[Deadpoolica]

3 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

It should make a difference to you. Leave out the potential grading discrepancy that what you grade a 9.0 might come back from CGC as an 8/8.5. This is of course a potential problem but I'm going to ignore this just to make the argument simpler. Take a bronze book that sells for $100 in CGC 9.2, let's say ASM 103 for example. You charge $100 for it slabbed and you charge $100 for it raw as a 9.2. You are ignoring that the slab itself costs money. As a buyer, if I bought your raw 9.2 and then wanted to get it slabbed, I would have to pay around $30 to get it graded. But I can buy it already graded for $100. Why in the world would I pay an extra $30 for your raw copy just to have to do the work myself, and take the risk of a lower grade to boot? You can look at it as the book itself is only worth $70 and the slab literally adds $30 in value.

Exactly! The slab itself adds value

Edited January 28, 2020 by Deadpoolica

[blazingbob]

31 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

It should make a difference to you. Leave out the potential grading discrepancy that what you grade a 9.0 might come back from CGC as an 8/8.5. This is of course a potential problem but I'm going to ignore this just to make the argument simpler. Take a bronze book that sells for $100 in CGC 9.2, let's say ASM 103 for example. You charge $100 for it slabbed and you charge $100 for it raw as a 9.2. You are ignoring that the slab itself costs money. As a buyer, if I bought your raw 9.2 and then wanted to get it slabbed, I would have to pay around $30 to get it graded. But I can buy it already graded for $100. Why in the world would I pay an extra $30 for your raw copy just to have to do the work myself, and take the risk of a lower grade to boot? You can look at it as the book itself is only worth $70 and the slab literally adds $30 in value.

AS #103 guides for $110 which means I would price it at $120/discount to a $100.  

If you are paying $100 for a CGC 9.2 you are buying it for less then guide.  

I tell a lot of customers that a majority of those books in slabs started out with raw pricing. 

Lastly when you are grading books you really should be figuring out if CGC is MAKING YOU MONEY or COSTING YOU MONEY.

Price out the submission at your prices with discounting,  when the books come back graded price them again.

Is the invoice PLUS OR MINUS when factoring in grading costs? 

If you are consistently getting NEGATIVE results CGC isn't adding any value at all.  

If your grades are consistently lower then CGC's maybe you need a grading check.  Or GLASSES

Edited January 28, 2020 by blazingbob

[blazingbob]

10 minutes ago, Deadpoolica said:

Exactly! The slab itself adds value

Getting a book graded doesn't always add value.

If you got a AS #103 graded you are looking at around $30-$35.

If you paid 1/2 guide for it $55 your cost basis is $90.

You sell it for $100 and made $10,  if you sold it raw for $100 you made $45.  

Did the slab add value in this case?  No.  Only people making the most money is the seller of the book,  the grading company and the shipping company.  You made 10% if cash,  7% if paypal or CC.

Edited January 28, 2020 by blazingbob

[1Cool]

45 minutes ago, KEY ISSUES Comics said:

Any lower end Bronze/Copper/Silver Age book that's in the $30-100CAD range in the 3.0-8.0 range to give a rough idea. There are exceptions of course. The price spread is so low on these types of books that raw or graded makes no difference to me.

But, I'm different that way I guess. 

I think we can agree that the market is all over the place though.

It almost sounds like people are paying raw prices for non key slabbed books in lower grades rather the you pricing your books the same as graded copies.  The end result is the same but is a big distinction since I doubt you are pulling up GPA and looking up X-Men 300 and seeing a slabbed CGC 9.2 sold to some crazy for $20 and them pricing all your X-Men 300s at $20.

[LordRahl]

9 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

Getting a book graded doesn't always add value.

If you got a AS #103 graded you are looking at around $30-$35.

If you paid 1/2 guide for it $55 your cost basis is $90.

You sell it for $100 and made $10,  if you sold it raw for $100 you made $45.  

Did the slab add value in this case?  No.  Only people making the most money is the seller of the book,  the grading company and the shipping company.  You made 10% if cash,  7% if paypal or CC.

That is correct but that assumes you can sell it raw for $100. YOU might be able to... MIGHT. Most people can't.

[blazingbob]

2 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

That is correct but that assumes you can sell it raw for $100. YOU might be able to... MIGHT. Most people can't.

I can even sell it to the OSPG buyer.  

 

[revat]

1 minute ago, LordRahl said:

11 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

Getting a book graded doesn't always add value.

If you got a AS #103 graded you are looking at around $30-$35.

If you paid 1/2 guide for it $55 your cost basis is $90.

You sell it for $100 and made $10,  if you sold it raw for $100 you made $45.  

Did the slab add value in this case?  No.  Only people making the most money is the seller of the book,  the grading company and the shipping company.  You made 10% if cash,  7% if paypal or CC.

That is correct but that assumes you can sell it raw for $100. YOU might be able to... MIGHT. Most people can't.

Just like most other things, the answer lies somewhere in the middle.  An old book isn't automatically worth $40 more slabbed than raw, nor a raw book automatically worth $40 less than the GPA value in that grade.  Obviously in some books the restoration check is more valuable than in other books, and obviously some newer books have almost literally zero value slabbed if they're not 9.6-9.8. 

[dupont2005]

15 hours ago, jokiing said:

I like what you said about inspecting a comic in person... big advantage with raw... but as for ebay dealers eating shipping and fees, unless they're not the brightest bulb in the draw, those cost are figured into their asking price.

The implication is that they actually do factor those costs into their price and still beat convention dealer prices by a significant amount