New CGC collector with a few questions about some purchases and damage 3 3

[MetalPSI]

Nice hook with the title. Not surprised at the actual discussion. 

Newb thinks he's cheated, presented with facts, cant or wont admit to jumping the gun. Local toxic crew PM to influence that the issue is with seller. Newb looks like a donkey.

Rinse and repeat. How happy was I to not post for a year since landing here.

However, discussion of books with manufacturer flaws is extremely informative 

[MR SigS]

On 2/4/2020 at 6:54 PM, BmoGreen said:

 I really am trying to learn here, 

Several people are trying to teach

 

On 2/4/2020 at 6:54 PM, BmoGreen said:

I find it hard to believe you or anyone else on this forum would receive the book with the dented and chopped corner binary chip and not be disappointed. 

Sellers aren't required to educate new buyers, and especially not with their inventory. It's the responsibility of the buyer to understand what they're buying- In this case, studying what is acceptable on 9.8s.

Learning about collecting can get expensive, but it shouldn't be at the seller's expense.

[Lazyboy]

On 2/4/2020 at 9:45 PM, BmoGreen said:

The graded comic world is completely different from the graded card world.

Yes. This is the most important thing that you need to (and apparently do ) understand.

You should do some more research on comic grading and grading companies to hopefully save yourself from future disappointment. I'm not sure if you know about pressing, but it is a huge thing in the graded comic world that, from my understanding, is not accepted in the card world.

Quote

From what I gather the cover not being square with the book would be a downgrade on a more recent book, am I correct on that?

Do you mean the cover and pages being (near) perfectly aligned? Not likely, at least from CGC. Though it's less likely to be an issue both because of how most newer comics are made and because it's partially an aging issue on older books.

Quote

In the graded card world anything that would downgrade a new card would downgrade an old card equally.

You would think this should be true in comics, but there are some legitimate reasons (and some more questionable ones) why it's not.

[porcupine48]

Sounds to me someone wants a 9.9 or a 10.0.

[Semicentennial]

If CGC doesn't list grading notes on a 9.8 then why should the seller create notes?  

[ThothAmon]

Sad that it took the seller to post why the first book is a 9.8 (production defect) when a good number of posts were enabling the OP’s unfounded concerns. I’ve noticed that the boards are a little quick to throw sellers under the bus. 

[BmoGreen]

10 hours ago, ThothAmon said:

Sad that it took the seller to post why the first book is a 9.8 (production defect) when a good number of posts were enabling the OP’s unfounded concerns. I’ve noticed that the boards are a little quick to throw sellers under the bus. 

I think the posters were not trying to throw anyone under the bus. Universally everyone told me not to worry about the other book I posted photos of. However, there seems to be some genuine disagreement among CGC buyers about "bindery chipping". The 4 other boards I posted this on were similar to this, the majority of people seem to think that the ebay seller should have mentioned the chip at the minimum. Clear photos of the ding would have been appropriate.

I did not open my dispute on ebay with RMA until the majority of posters on multiple boards agreed that I should. And when I did open the dispute RMA told me to come here and ask you guys. I already had, which is why I opened the dispute. As someone who sells collectibles online for a living and supports 2 well paid full time employees also. I did not feel comfortable opening a dispute with such a highly rated seller without asking around first. 

I have decided not to send the book back on RMA's dime. I still feel like I got the short end of a stick, but RMA's 5 star across the board feedback is incredibly hard to earn on ebay and I have decided I am not experienced enough with CGC books to let my opinion about whether or not he should have disclosed this damage. And honestly, he has a great selection of books which I would like access to in the future. 

Obviously bindery chipping is acceptable on a 9.8 according to CGC. RMA's post earlier in the thread was enlightening and I appreciate him taking the time to gather all this evidence. I have a question for everyone, since I am still learning and would like to not repeat this mistake in the future. Are there any other flaws that are as visually obvious and unappealing as a bindery chip that I should look out for and ask about before purchasing high grade CGC books?

I have purchased 30 other 9.8 books from this era now and luckily no others had any incredibly obvious defects like this one I got from RMA. So either I have been lucky or this particular defect is not incredibly common. 

[BmoGreen]

On 2/7/2020 at 1:31 PM, Lazyboy said:

You would think this should be true in comics, but there are some legitimate reasons (and some more questionable ones) why it's not.

I am interested to hear your opinion on what this legitimate reasons are and what these more questionable ones are. 

 

[BmoGreen]

11 hours ago, 50 Fiddy said:

If CGC doesn't list grading notes on a 9.8 then why should the seller create notes?  

because CGC is not the one selling the book. 

[BmoGreen]

On 2/7/2020 at 11:51 AM, Avi said:

Sorry, sometimes I just type, read, and submit at the same time.

I meant to say "you just WONT find an issue without it"

It; being a defect in the corner.

I haven't seen another issue with it. There are dozens on ebay right now with photos that you can actually see the corners and none of them have the issue. So....I can say without a doubt you are wrong about that. 

[Semicentennial]

20 minutes ago, BmoGreen said:

because CGC is not the one selling the book. 

But they're the one that graded the book so obviously they didn't think that tiny chip was an issue for a 9.8 copy. 

31 minutes ago, BmoGreen said:

Are there any other flaws that are as visually obvious and unappealing as a bindery chip that I should look out for and ask about before purchasing high grade CGC books?

I think this is something you need to answer yourself.  Visually, an off-centered 9.8 is a no-go for me. 

[BmoGreen]

3 hours ago, 50 Fiddy said:

I think this is something you need to answer yourself.  Visually, an off-centered 9.8 is a no-go for me. 

Yes, that is a no go for me also, but luckily that is obvious from even the worst photos. But what I am asking is if there is any other defect which could appear on a 9.8 that would be so obvious and unappealing, as you noted, off centered books is a good example. This is not something I could answer myself because I am too green to know of these things. If I had not received this book from RMA I would not even know about bindery chips yet. 

Edited February 9, 2020 by BmoGreen

[Bob Troub]

Interesting thread....this new "buyer" needs to find another hobby to invest in.....I would not want him or his "2 full time employees" , as he keeps stating, to buy anything from me...there is just no way to make him happy.....

[BmoGreen]

11 minutes ago, Bob Troub said:

Interesting thread....this new "buyer" needs to find another hobby to invest in.....I would not want him or his "2 full time employees" , as he keeps stating, to buy anything from me...there is just no way to make him happy.....

Wow.....some of you guys are pretty whiny.... dude it has been years since I even thought of returning something.

I point out my credentials to say that I am not just a newbie comic collector but a seasoned veteran in a vast swath of the world of collectibles... vinyl records, vintage clothing, rare books, vintage and antique toys, modern sneakers. I have also collected but not sold cards for years. Yes, not comics, but a wide enough range of collectables that my skills are applicable. 

Not sure why a few of you think I have been unreasonable here. I came here for advice before taking any actions. Got advice and took action based on that advice. Got more advice and decided not to follow through. Some of yall are just real jerks....

[ThothAmon]

47 minutes ago, BmoGreen said:

Wow.....some of you guys are pretty whiny.... dude it has been years since I even thought of returning something.

I point out my credentials to say that I am not just a newbie comic collector but a seasoned veteran in a vast swath of the world of collectibles... vinyl records, vintage clothing, rare books, vintage and antique toys, modern sneakers. I have also collected but not sold cards for years. Yes, not comics, but a wide enough range of collectables that my skills are applicable. 

Not sure why a few of you think I have been unreasonable here. I came here for advice before taking any actions. Got advice and took action based on that advice. Got more advice and decided not to follow through. Some of yall are just real jerks....

My response to you was not meant to criticize you in any way. Your question is certainly legitimate. My criticism was actually of those who advised you that this in fact was a defect that precludes a 9.8. Which it isn’t. As far as buying graded books go I’ve come up with a saying-Buy the book not the grade.  

[BmoGreen]

14 minutes ago, ThothAmon said:

My response to you was not meant to criticize you in any way. Your question is certainly legitimate. My criticism was actually of those who advised you that this in fact was a defect that precludes a 9.8. Which it isn’t. As far as buying graded books go I’ve come up with a saying-Buy the book not the grade.  

Thats fair, I did not take your comment badly. And I agree about buying the book and not the grade and have since before I bought my first slab.

Guys can say 9.8 is 9.8 is 9.8 and it doesnt matter, but I sure notice a bunch of them note how great the color or centering is on their 9.8's. They just dont think mentioning flaws is needed....

I did a close inspection of the provided photo on the book I bought on the ebay listing, the issue just did not register on this not so good image which had glare and grain along the top edge.  If it would have been visable I would have never bought this book. I know in the future that if I cant see the edge of a book I will ask about bindery chipping before buying. 

[MetalPSI]

1 hour ago, BmoGreen said:

Wow.....some of you guys are pretty whiny.... dude it has been years since I even thought of returning something.

I point out my credentials to say that I am not just a newbie comic collector but a seasoned veteran in a vast swath of the world of collectibles... vinyl records, vintage clothing, rare books, vintage and antique toys, modern sneakers. I have also collected but not sold cards for years. Yes, not comics, but a wide enough range of collectables that my skills are applicable. 

Not sure why a few of you think I have been unreasonable here. I came here for advice before taking any actions. Got advice and took action based on that advice. Got more advice and decided not to follow through. Some of yall are just real jerks....

The internet is littered with opinions, actually rather hard to find a space where facts are displayed and discussed, rationally, scrutinized and agreed upon.

Now, seems to me, this being my opinion, you didn't hear what you wanted to, and that makes people jerks.

:shrug:

[BmoGreen]

8 minutes ago, IkewithMike said:

The internet is littered with opinions, actually rather hard to find a space where facts are displayed and discussed, rationally, scrutinized and agreed upon.

Now, seems to me, this being my opinion, you didn't hear what you wanted to, and that makes people jerks.

:shrug:

Or....ya know....ya just might be jerks

[MetalPSI]

2 minutes ago, BmoGreen said:

Or....ya know....ya just might be jerks

Ya ok. As someone who's spent way too much time on Facebook and dealing with the misinformation there, this site is a breath of fresh air.

But as the story goes, everyone takes away something different. Wish you had a better experience, I really enjoy the space

[RockMyAmadeus]

6 minutes ago, BmoGreen said:

Thats fair, I did not take your comment badly. And I agree about buying the book and not the grade and have since before I bought my first slab.

Guys can say 9.8 is 9.8 is 9.8 and it doesnt matter, but I sure notice a bunch of them note how great the color or centering is on their 9.8's. They just dont think mentioning flaws is needed....

I did a close inspection of the provided photo on the book I bought on the ebay listing, the issue just did not register on this not so good image which had glare and grain along the top edge.  If it would have been visable I would have never bought this book. I know in the future that if I cant see the edge of a book I will ask about bindery chipping before buying. 

It was visible, as I pointed out: 

The absence of the glare would not have made it any more visible. I'll point out here that if the glare from my scanner was troublesome, why didn't you ask for other/better pictures before you made your first offer? If the photo was, as you point out, "not so good"...shouldn't that have given you pause? Isn't, then, the onus on you for not doing your due diligence...?

That you didn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't visible. It also goes to show how very small it actually is, when seen in context.

You didn't answer my question: where did you post your giant, zoomed-in pictures, and what were the credentials of the people giving you their opinions? Because I know, having seen it here hundreds, if not thousands, of times, that flaws that are shown only in zoomed-in, blown up pictures always look much worse than they look in hand, and people always say so. Then, when they see it in context, they say "oh. Well that doesn't look as bad as I thought." Did you show the chip in its proper context, or did you just show the giant, zoomed-in picture?

Because...and let's be honest, here...if you only showed the giant, zoomed-in pictures, it looks like you'd already made up your mind, and were just looking for people to agree with you, rather than honestly soliciting neutral opinions.

That said...even though you closed the return, I am still more than happy to take the book back. Bindery chips are, in fact, common from this era and type of book, whether you believe that or not, and don't bother me in the slightest. It clearly bothers you, so why keep a book you're not happy with? I'm happy to refund you, minus shipping costs. 

Or, you could keep the book, since it's a very nice 9.8 double signed copy of a rather key X-Men book, and trade it for something you like better somewhere down the line.