Are these books worth the grade? ASM 361 / Iron Man 282 0

[Hamlet]

Just now, KryptoSpidey said:

Well it kinda all does. If he paid cover price for it, it's all profit beyond cost of grading basically vs if he paid $100 for the book and then grading and ate it in the end. What he paid is completely relevant

It’s relevant to whether he makes a profit, but it isn’t relevant to what the right decision is to maximize that profit ( or lack there of ).

The best way to maximize what he is able to sell the book for doesn’t change based on what he bought it for.  
 

There are two ways to sell the book.  If he sells it raw he gets $X.  If he sells it slabbed, he gets $Y - grading costs.  He should get it slabbed if (Y - grading costs) is greater than X.  None of those values depend on what he paid for it.

Are people really not getting this?

 

[Hamlet]

2 hours ago, revat said:

For pure economics it shouldn’t matter what he paid for them, BUT to some people the ROI is a stronger factor than the pure dollar amount.

 

if I bought for $3 and can sell now for $51, that’s 1600% profit.  Sounds appealing? I might just sell it here and save the trouble and risk.

but if you put in another $47 for grading, maybe you sell for $150, which is only 200% profit, but an extra $50 profit

but if You paid $50 already, there’s no profit at all unless you get it graded.

when mental justifications and preferences come in, pure economics doesn’t always apply

Sure, but in your example it is pretty clearly worth getting graded either way, isn’t it?  A person might choose to take the quick money if they didn’t feel like doing the work and taking the time of getting it graded, but wouldn’t you tell someone who is asking whether it is worth getting graded that it is worth it, since they are going to make an extra $50 regardless of what they paid for the book?  
 

The ROI for the $47 spent on grading is over 100%, which is a deal almost every investor is going to want to take, unless they just don’t want to deal with the work of getting it graded.  

[Randall Dowling]

This is an exceptionally amusing thread.  

The idea that anybody thinks how much one has as a cost basis for a book influences the selling equation is pretty funny.  It’s just math- the initial investment is a constant between the equations, therefore, it can be disregarded (or algebraically, crossed off).

[divad]

27 minutes ago, Randall Dowling said:

This is an exceptionally amusing thread.  

The idea that anybody thinks how much one has as a cost basis for a book influences the selling equation is pretty funny.  It’s just math- the initial investment is a constant between the equations, therefore, it can be disregarded (or algebraically, crossed off).

Thank you for the lesson . . .

Let's see, I paid $0.35 for one of my Hulk #181s and sold it raw for $2,200.

I paid the same for the second copy, then cut the MVS stamp out of it and (much) later had it slabbed - about $75 in costs at the time. Even still, I sold it for $550.

Please give me your selling "equations" on these two puppies. Skip the algebra though. 

[Ryan.]

5 hours ago, Randall Dowling said:

This is an exceptionally amusing thread.  

The idea that anybody thinks how much one has as a cost basis for a book influences the selling equation is pretty funny.  It’s just math- the initial investment is a constant between the equations, therefore, it can be disregarded (or algebraically, crossed off).

Sunk costs 

[Ryan.]

6 hours ago, divad said:

Thank you for the lesson . . .

Let's see, I paid $0.35 for one of my Hulk #181s and sold it raw for $2,200.

I paid the same for the second copy, then cut the MVS stamp out of it and (much) later had it slabbed - about $75 in costs at the time. Even still, I sold it for $550.

Please give me your selling "equations" on these two puppies. Skip the algebra though. 

What you paid for those copies had zero impact on the final selling prices. There, no algebra. 

[Randall Dowling]

6 hours ago, divad said:

Thank you for the lesson . . .

Let's see, I paid $0.35 for one of my Hulk #181s and sold it raw for $2,200.

I paid the same for the second copy, then cut the MVS stamp out of it and (much) later had it slabbed - about $75 in costs at the time. Even still, I sold it for $550.

Please give me your selling "equations" on these two puppies. Skip the algebra though. 

This is an “apples and oranges” question.  The other posters were arguing that somehow initial cost influenced how much one made on the same book, slabbed or raw.  
 

What Hamlet was saying is initial cost doesn’t factor between the profit calculation when deciding to slab or not.  You already own the book.  From that point on, the only purely financial consideration is selling price less additional costs.

So, in the second example (missing MVS), the only consideration is what you sold it for slabbed ($550 - $75 = $475 net profit) vs. what you could have sold it for raw.  My guess is you did better slabbed, but for many, many books this is not the case.  For example, if I had a 4.5 copy of Marvel Tales 176, I can probably sell it raw for 25 cents.  Slabbed- maybe $2.00.   Costs of slabbing are at least $25 so I can sell it for a loss of $23 slabbed or I can make 25 cents selling it raw.  How much I paid for the book initially doesn’t factor in.

[KryptoSpidey]

On 2/8/2020 at 12:10 AM, Hamlet said:

It’s relevant to whether he makes a profit, but it isn’t relevant to what the right decision is to maximize that profit ( or lack there of ).

The best way to maximize what he is able to sell the book for doesn’t change based on what he bought it for.  
 

There are two ways to sell the book.  If he sells it raw he gets $X.  If he sells it slabbed, he gets $Y - grading costs.  He should get it slabbed if (Y - grading costs) is greater than X.  None of those values depend on what he paid for it.

Are people really not getting this?

 

Well sure it absolutely does because if the cost of purchase originally is Z and Z is more than X or Y then X or Y is completely irrelevant. RIGHT? Also if Z is anywhere close to the cost of X then Y is completely dependent on the +/- .2 of a 9.8 or 9.6 Correct? And if Z is close to Y then it's a wash likely or a loss. I play the game every day, i'm not a dealer but CGC has 100 +/- books of mine right now and if ALL of X,Y and Z didn't make sense then they don't go-to CGC.

Edited February 13, 2020 by KryptoSpidey

[Hamlet]

28 minutes ago, KryptoSpidey said:

Well sure it absolutely does because if the cost of purchase originally is Z and Z is more than X or Y then X or Y is completely irrelevant. RIGHT? Also if Z is anywhere close to the cost of X then Y is completely dependent on the +/- .2 of a 9.8 or 9.6 Correct? And if Z is close to Y then it's a wash likely or a loss. I play the game every day, i'm not a dealer but CGC has 100 +/- books of mine right now and if ALL of X,Y and Z didn't make sense then i'd be selling them RAW. 

Do you understand that sometimes if a person overpaid for a book it is still the correct decision to slab it so they lose less money than selling it raw?
 

Say you have a book that you mistakenly paid $175 for thinking it would be a lock 9.8, but you notice an issue with it that will make it grade out as a lock 9.4 instead.  If the book will sell for $75 dollars raw or $150 graded as a 9.4, and grading costs $25,  isn’t it still right to get it graded, even though you will still lose money? 
 

Isn’t getting it graded to net $50 more from the sale the right financial decision to make whether you paid $1, $100, or $1000 for the book?

I’d rather get it graded and lose only $50 ( 200 - 150 ) rather than sell it raw and lose $100 ( 175 - 75 ).  Wouldn’t you?
 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Hamlet
Typo

[Randall Dowling]

1 hour ago, KryptoSpidey said:

Well sure it absolutely does because if the cost of purchase originally is Z and Z is more than X or Y then X or Y is completely irrelevant. RIGHT? Also if Z is anywhere close to the cost of X then Y is completely dependent on the +/- .2 of a 9.8 or 9.6 Correct? And if Z is close to Y then it's a wash likely or a loss. I play the game every day, i'm not a dealer but CGC has 100 +/- books of mine right now and if ALL of X,Y and Z didn't make sense then they don't go-to CGC.

I can’t understand what you’re trying to say.

[Von Cichlid]

32 minutes ago, Randall Dowling said:

I can’t understand what you’re trying to say.

I think he is saying that he would only slab a book to sell if it would make him a net profit with the price he paid factored into the situation.  If he would lose money in the slabbed or raw scenario, then he would opt not to sell at all, thereby not losing money.

You and Hamlet are approaching this from the mindset that the book must be sold, and are deciding that slabbing is worth it when the increase in sale price is more than the cost of slabbing.

Krypto is approaching this from the mindset that it is better not to sell at all if even when slabbed it would result in him getting less than he paid for it.

 

 

 

[Randall Dowling]

2 minutes ago, Von Cichlid said:

I think he is saying that he would only slab a book to sell if it would make him a net profit with the price he paid factored into the situation.  If he would lose money in the slabbed or raw scenario, then he would opt not to sell at all, thereby not losing money.

You and Hamlet are approaching this from the mindset that the book must be sold, and are deciding that slabbing is worth it when the increase in sale price is more than the cost of slabbing.

Krypto is approaching this from the mindset that it is better not to sell at all if even when slabbed it would result in him getting less than he paid for it.

That makes some sense.  It's "option 3- don't sell".  But the question by the OP was sell it raw or grade and then sell it.  They weren't asking whether to sell or not.

[KryptoSpidey]

2 hours ago, Hamlet said:

Do you understand that sometimes if a person overpaid for a book it is still the correct decision to slab it so they lose less money than selling it raw?
 

Say you have a book that you mistakenly paid $175 for thinking it would be a lock 9.8, but you notice an issue with it that will make it grade out as a lock 9.4 instead.  If the book will sell for $75 dollars raw or $150 graded as a 9.4, and grading costs $25,  isn’t it still right to get it graded, even though you will still lose money? 
 

Isn’t getting it graded to net $50 more from the sale the right financial decision to make whether you paid $1, $100, or $1000 for the book?

I’d rather get it graded and lose only $50 ( 200 - 150 ) rather than sell it raw and lose $100 ( 175 - 75 ).  Wouldn’t you?
 

In your scenero you are correct. 

I personally don't have any books I'd sell in that description of a quagmire. I'd sit on the book as is and decide down the road as the market value and/or demand changed.

But again I'm back to the OP bought the book we are discussing at Cover Price...

[revat]

2 minutes ago, rasita said:

Thanks for the responses, I have cover price invested.  My overall goal is to downsize my collection and purchase a book or two to keep longterm (another poll for later :-).  So, that being said, I want to maximize what I can sell them for so I can give myself the best opportunity to buy the most book for my money. Obviously if I can invest a little and sell for exponentially more that would be great.  I know there comes a point where the cost to slab isn't worthwhile.  These 2 books seemed to have some upside and I have them in high grades so that's why I just keyed in on these two.

I'm not sure if it was already mentioned, but you can consider 'pressing' too, which would take additional cost and time, but MIGHT raise the grade of one or both books.  But possibly something to research.

[divad]

On 2/8/2020 at 6:53 AM, Ryan. said:

What you paid for those copies had zero impact on the final selling prices. There, no algebra. 

"Impact" was not part of my question.