Signatures from artist websites.
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Hello. I recently finished reading the thread on getting signed comics graded and had a question. With CGC's tough grading policy on signed comics. Why do artist sell signed versions without the CGC grading option? While sometimes this is about $100 cheaper than the graded option. Shouldn't there be an option for artist selling signed comics on their website to to have it verified for CGC to have it graded later on? It seems strange that artist will sell signed versions knowing that the top grading company wouldn't accurately represent what the collector had purchased. Rendering their purchase sub-par to its counterpart witnessed by CGC while coming from the same source? As its set up now. It resembles a money grab which deviates from the true spirit of comic collecting. Yes, there are bad apples out there who forge signatures. But a system set up that does not take in account authentic signatures from a artists website who also does business with CGC appears to have unthought elements that result in unethical business practices. I can buy a signed comic for $30 or graded one at $130. Only one of these are deemed valuable by industry standards. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Off the top of my head. It would appear that an itemized receipt with an official number corresponding to the artist website and signed item would be possible. Sort of like how CGC creates registry numbers. Sort of like an unforgeable CoA.

 

Food for thought.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Xadus24 said:

Hello. I recently finished reading the thread on getting signed comics graded and had a question. With CGC's tough grading policy on signed comics. Why do artist sell signed versions without the CGC grading option? While sometimes this is about $100 cheaper than the graded option. Shouldn't there be an option for artist selling signed comics on their website to to have it verified for CGC to have it graded later on? It seems strange that artist will sell signed versions knowing that the top grading company wouldn't accurately represent what the collector had purchased. Rendering their purchase sub-par to its counterpart witnessed by CGC while coming from the same source? As its set up now. It resembles a money grab which deviates from the true spirit of comic collecting. Yes, there are bad apples out there who forge signatures. But a system set up that does not take in account authentic signatures from a artists website who also does business with CGC appears to have unthought elements that result in unethical business practices. I can buy a signed comic for $30 or graded one at $130. Only one of these are deemed valuable by industry standards. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Off the top of my head. It would appear that an itemized receipt with an official number corresponding to the artist website and signed item would be possible. Sort of like how CGC creates registry numbers. Sort of like an unforgeable CoA.

Food for thought.

  1. CGC-graded comics occupy a tiny percentage of products that comic collectors are interested in.
  2. No, because the SS program has stringent standards. Signatures can be forged.
  3. Non-witnessed signed comics are in no way "inferior" to CGC-witnessed products (at the macro level - each person may have individual perceptions of value regarding witnessed, 'authenticated', and other signatures).
  4. How is what a "money grab"? Isn't technically anything that inflates financial value a "money grab"?
  5. How is strictly following their own business practices "unethical"...?
  6. This isn't correct.

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1 hour ago, TT44ly said:

There's so much wrong with this post that it'd take too long to go point by point. Suffice it to say you are way off on most everything here.

Thank you for your detailed response. Do you have a suggestion on what to do with:

1. Old signed comics from the 90's and older that you would like to have preserved and or graded?

2. How to preserve and grade comics that come from artist sites such as Jeehyung, J Scott and others that offer ungraded signed comics?

3. Do you feel that CGC's hard grading processes for signed comics raises the value of said comic?  

When you venture into something new, systems and processes might not make sense. Thats why it's important to rely on ethical experts within the field and always ask questions. No matter how nonsensical they might seem. Accepting status quo is dangerous in a world of loose capitalistic morals. And sadly. If that wasn't the world we live in. I would of never thought to ask.

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2 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:
  1. CGC-graded comics occupy a tiny percentage of products that comic collectors are interested in.
  2. No, because the SS program has stringent standards. Signatures can be forged.
  3. Non-witnessed signed comics are in no way "inferior" to CGC-witnessed products (at the macro level - each person may have individual perceptions of value regarding witnessed, 'authenticated', and other signatures).
  4. How is what a "money grab"? Isn't technically anything that inflates financial value a "money grab"?
  5. How is strictly following their own business practices "unethical"...?
  6. This isn't correct.

Thank you for your detailed response. Do you have a suggestion on what to do with:

1. Old signed comics from the 90's and older that you would like to have preserved and or graded?

2. How to preserve and grade comics that come from artist sites such as Jeehyung, J Scott and others that offer ungraded signed comics?

3. Do you feel that CGC's hard grading processes for signed comics raises the value of said comic?  

When you venture into something new, systems and processes might not make sense. Thats why it's important to rely on ethical experts within the field and always ask questions. No matter how nonsensical they might seem. Accepting status quo is dangerous in a world of loose capitalistic morals. And sadly. If that wasn't the world we live in. I would of never thought to ask.

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2 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:
  1. CGC-graded comics occupy a tiny percentage of products that comic collectors are interested in.
  2. No, because the SS program has stringent standards. Signatures can be forged.
  3. Non-witnessed signed comics are in no way "inferior" to CGC-witnessed products (at the macro level - each person may have individual perceptions of value regarding witnessed, 'authenticated', and other signatures).
  4. How is what a "money grab"? Isn't technically anything that inflates financial value a "money grab"?
  5. How is strictly following their own business practices "unethical"...?
  6. This isn't correct.

I know you're the type of guy that reads halfway before he posts. So let me straighten something out.

5. It's not that strictly following their own business practices that is unethical. I believe there might be some unethical behavior by the artist website selling non graded. Its not CGC. And it was more of a question than an accusation. I recommend you try reading things first....or at least clarifying before you put words into someone else's mouth.

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2 minutes ago, TT44ly said:

No because there is no "hard grading" for SS. They're graded like any other comic (ignoring the sig of course).

 

Mylar2 and Fullbacks available at EGerber.com

That was a stupid reply. Any baby collecting comics knows you can put a comic in a mylar bag with backing as all comics get. My questions was meant for a more official level of preservation that doesn't have the pit falls of putting a comic in a bag and board...

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Just now, TT44ly said:

A Mylar2 and Fullback will protect your comic just as well as a slab will.

I'd love to see a test putting both under heavy stress tests. I doubt a mylar would do just as fine with liquids and other sharp objects. Anyway. Your response derails the post. I wish it was more helpful. 

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26 minutes ago, Xadus24 said:

Thank you for your detailed response. Do you have a suggestion on what to do with:

1. Old signed comics from the 90's and older that you would like to have preserved and or graded?

2. How to preserve and grade comics that come from artist sites such as Jeehyung, J Scott and others that offer ungraded signed comics?

3. Do you feel that CGC's hard grading processes for signed comics raises the value of said comic?  

When you venture into something new, systems and processes might not make sense. Thats why it's important to rely on ethical experts within the field and always ask questions. No matter how nonsensical they might seem. Accepting status quo is dangerous in a world of loose capitalistic morals. And sadly. If that wasn't the world we live in. I would of never thought to ask.

1 & 2: "Voldy" offers a service that can certify signatures after the fact from what I know and encapsulate them.
3: It is no different than the standard grading process (other than the fact that the signature has been witnessed by somebody CGC trusts). So in that sense, I would say the impact to the value would be no different than any book they grade. 

Hope that helps!

Edited by 707comics

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45 minutes ago, Xadus24 said:

I believe there might be some unethical behavior by the artist website selling non graded

Not everyone wants their books graded :eyeroll:

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41 minutes ago, TT44ly said:

You think a slab is waterproof don't you? lol

 :roflmao:

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11 minutes ago, TT44ly said:

Some of us know how to grade already too.

Lets not derail the OP thread with that talk.... 

  :insane: :roflmao:

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2 hours ago, Xadus24 said:

I believe there might be some unethical behavior by the artist website selling non graded.

You must be :censored: joking.

How the hell is it unethical for somebody to not consider another for-profit business when going about their own business?

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2 hours ago, Xadus24 said:

That was a stupid reply. Any baby collecting comics knows you can put a comic in a mylar bag with backing as all comics get. My questions was meant for a more official level of preservation that doesn't have the pit falls of putting a comic in a bag and board...

:roflmao:

Since you clearly know nothing everything, please tell us more about how to "officially" preserve comics.

Do damaged corners, edges and staple areas qualify as pitfalls? How about impressions made by defective, improperly-formed holders (that, officially, aren't a problem meh)?

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8 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

You must be :censored: joking.

How the hell is it unethical for somebody to not consider another for-profit business when going about their own business?

RIGHT! 

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14 hours ago, Xadus24 said:

Thank you for your detailed response. Do you have a suggestion on what to do with:

1. Old signed comics from the 90's and older that you would like to have preserved and or graded?

2. How to preserve and grade comics that come from artist sites such as Jeehyung, J Scott and others that offer ungraded signed comics?

3. Do you feel that CGC's hard grading processes for signed comics raises the value of said comic?  

When you venture into something new, systems and processes might not make sense. Thats why it's important to rely on ethical experts within the field and always ask questions. No matter how nonsensical they might seem. Accepting status quo is dangerous in a world of loose capitalistic morals. And sadly. If that wasn't the world we live in. I would of never thought to ask.

Bags and boards work fine in preserving the condition of any comic.

CGC doesn't grade SS comics any "harder" than other labels. I consider SS comics to be more financially valuable. That's a personal preference, though.

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14 hours ago, Xadus24 said:

I know you're the type of guy that reads halfway before he posts. So let me straighten something out.

5. It's not that strictly following their own business practices that is unethical. I believe there might be some unethical behavior by the artist website selling non graded. Its not CGC. And it was more of a question than an accusation. I recommend you try reading things first....or at least clarifying before you put words into someone else's mouth.

That's a dangerously incorrect assumption.

There's is literally no ethical dilemma for an artist selling comics they designed on their website. lol

Holy hyperbole, Batman!

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This is the 2nd time this particular OP has created a thread to 'ask questions' only to become blisteringly hostile without good reason. Seems like s/he's only here to troll IMO.

I'll give the OP an opportunity to correct course, though. "Fool me once..."

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18 hours ago, Xadus24 said:

Thank you for your detailed response. Do you have a suggestion on what to do with:

1. Old signed comics from the 90's and older that you would like to have preserved and or graded?

2. How to preserve and grade comics that come from artist sites such as Jeehyung, J Scott and others that offer ungraded signed comics?

3. Do you feel that CGC's hard grading processes for signed comics raises the value of said comic?  

When you venture into something new, systems and processes might not make sense. Thats why it's important to rely on ethical experts within the field and always ask questions. No matter how nonsensical they might seem. Accepting status quo is dangerous in a world of loose capitalistic morals. And sadly. If that wasn't the world we live in. I would of never thought to ask.

going to try to help again hopefully I wont get a hate message oh well... 

1. for older comics there are many venues to preserve your comic, there are other grading services out there and there's also the option of taking a CGC green qualified label with notations for sketches or signatures. Also the Mylar and Boards, DIY slab, etc.. so many things available to preserve your books. Google can help.

2. I think the problem for you to understand is that many collectors like Raw ungraded books so they buy these sketch/signature books without caring about the SS labels. Grading a book is very useful when selling or buying as one of the many purposes for grading and slabbing books is to protect but also to give a professional opinion on condition of the book by assigning a numerical grade to help facilitate a transaction between buyer and seller with fewer arguments or hidden issues; such a restoration, which is common on SA, GA, older books, etc... so many collectors who keep books don't grade as they are keeping their books raw so they can reading and enjoying them how they want to.

3. CGC grading process is their standard they dont grade books harder or softer.

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4 minutes ago, Krismusic said:

going to try to help again hopefully I wont get a hate message oh well... 

1. for older comics there are many venues to preserve your comic, there are other grading services out there and there's also the option of taking a CGC green qualified label with notations for sketches or signatures. Also the Mylar and Boards, DIY slab, etc.. so many things available to preserve your books. Google can help.

2. I think the problem for you to understand is that many collectors like Raw ungraded books so they buy these sketch/signature books without caring about the SS labels. Grading a book is very useful when selling or buying as one of the many purposes for grading and slabbing books is to protect but also to give a professional opinion on condition of the book by assigning a numerical grade to help facilitate a transaction between buyer and seller with fewer arguments or hidden issues; such a restoration, which is common on SA, GA, older books, etc... so many collectors who keep books don't grade as they are keeping their books raw so they can reading and enjoying them how they want to.

3. CGC grading process is their standard they dont grade books harder or softer.

Don't hold your breath...

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I'm not too sure what's going on in this thread, but to the OP, I would say these two things might answer the majority of the questions.

1.  Apply a basic devil's advocate position to most of your queries, and try to think through why parties do or don't do things, taking into account the other responses that have already been provided in this thread.

2.  Don't assume that CGC or any of the artists have any larger duty or responsibility to the comic collecting world at large, especially very specific collectors. 

3.  It's a stretch to think that all or even a majority of artists/creators have fully developed business /skills/sensibilities, or that even a few are in a popularity/market position to maximize their position in the same way that say...JSC can.

Which is not to say new ideas can't improve business/revenue streams for creators and/or CGC. 

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