Bad experience with Brett/Fantasy Comics Unlimited, book came back qualified 6 6

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

Im a lover not a fighter, but here goes . . . I’m shocked any of the high post count boardies are putting the blame on you. I guess it’s your fault you didn’t bring and hook the seller to a polygraph

[shadroch]

A little personal responsibility goes a long way. Was the seller wrong? Yes, but he offered a refund which was declined, and offered $200 which was accepted.

[comicwiz]

13 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

Interesting that Brett couldn't tell that the centerfold was married; the detachment would be the first clue.

With all due respect, including the OP and all parties involved, why wouldn't this apply to the buyer also?

I see both sides of this situation, and understand the buyers grievance, but given a partial refund pathway was sought as a form of resolution, the chargeback scenario seems too punitive.

The part I'm trying to reconcile is submitting a book known to have a detached centerfold would garner a green label anyway. If it being a married centerfold is a deal-breaker, then I would sooner work with the seller to refund the book minus the partial refund received.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

11 minutes ago, shadroch said:

A little personal responsibility goes a long way. Was the seller wrong? Yes, but he offered a refund which was declined, and offered $200 which was accepted.

At the time the buyer declined the full refund, he didn’t know the centerfold was married. Not the same thing 

[Grendel72]

Why would it be a green label if the centerfold did belong to the book. Thought it would be a blue label though the grade drop would be significant I.e. at least 1.5 drop 

[comicdonna]

13 minutes ago, Grendel72 said:

Why would it be a green label if the centerfold did belong to the book. Thought it would be a blue label though the grade drop would be significant I.e. at least 1.5 drop 

It would get a blue label.  On a GA book, usually there's no grade drop up to 6.0  

[Ryan.]

Detached centerfold does not mean automatic green label. 

[Pokecollectoramy]

3 hours ago, JollyComics said:

Big Apple Con - December 14th 2019 - he purchased the book.

This post - February 8th 2020 - after he disagreed with the dealer.

That is 56 days.  It is over 30 days of purchase.  Probably, the dispute will not be made.

Young Allies #2 is 79 years old book - not a new product.  I don't think it is a guarantee to get the money back.  It's a risk purchase.

You get 60 days from the CC statement to file a dispute. I still have a a couple of weeks fortunately. 

[Pokecollectoramy]

40 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

With all due respect, including the OP and all parties involved, why wouldn't this apply to the buyer also?

I see both sides of this situation, and understand the buyers grievance, but given a partial refund pathway was sought as a form of resolution, the chargeback scenario seems too punitive.

The part I'm trying to reconcile is submitting a book known to have a detached centerfold would garner a green label anyway. If it being a married centerfold is a deal-breaker, then I would sooner work with the seller to refund the book minus the partial refund received.

Detached centerfold definitely doesn’t always get a green. In fact this is the first time I’ve had a detached centerfold/wrap come back green. The other times they were blue with a corresponding grade drop

[The Lions Den]

52 minutes ago, Pokecollectoramy said:

Detached centerfold definitely doesn’t always get a green. In fact this is the first time I’ve had a detached centerfold/wrap come back green. The other times they were blue with a corresponding grade drop

I would venture to say that the book received a Qualified label because the centerfold was married, not because it was detached. As has been pointed out, most of the time a book with a detached centerfold will still be given a blue label by CGC and the grade will be adjusted accordingly. 

I do think this thread has been very educational, with good points being raised by everyone. And to be perfectly honest, if I'm buying an expensive raw book, I wouldn't just take the seller's word that the book is complete and restoration free. Maybe having that loupe in your pocket isn't such a bad idea...  

[Pokecollectoramy]

2 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

I would venture to say that the book received a Qualified label because the centerfold was married, not because it was detached. As has been pointed out, most of the time a book with a detached centerfold will still be given a blue label by CGC and the grade will be adjusted accordingly. 

I do think this thread has been very educational, with good points being raised by everyone. And to be perfectly honest, if I'm buying an expensive raw book, I wouldn't just take the seller's word that the book is complete and restoration free. Maybe having that loupe in your pocket isn't such a bad idea...  

Correct. This has soured me, as there are clearly sellers that will not stand by their books post-sale and others that will blame the victim

[The Lions Den]

1 minute ago, Pokecollectoramy said:

Correct. This has soured me, as there are clearly sellers that will not stand by their books post-sale and others that will blame the victim

I suppose everyone here has gotten burned a time or two...I know I have.  

 

 

[Pokecollectoramy]

4 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

I suppose everyone here has gotten burned a time or two...I know I have.  

 

 

Sorry to hear it ☹️

[The Lions Den]

15 minutes ago, Pokecollectoramy said:

Sorry to hear it ☹️

No worries, my friend. 

I just look at it as part of the cost of my comic education...  

[gadzukes]

I believe GA comics are the easiest to detect Married CFs because:

1) pages were trimmed wonky during the GA so it's very rare for CF edges to match up exactly on GA comics when marrying them.

2) staple placement can be somewhat wonky on GA comics.  

3) because of the age of the paper for GA comics, you get the biggest variance of PQ for GA comics, which can make it easy to spot married wraps.

4) many interior wraps have "gripper holes" at the bottom margin of the pages.  If the gripper holes line up between the CF and the other interior pages it's a really good indicator that the CF belongs to the interior.

If I were the OP and discovered the CF was detached I would have immediately looked at the staple placement to see if it matched up.

All of us collectors should attempt to educate ourselves at least a little on what to look for when shelling out large sums of money for raw comics.

Having said all of this, once the comic has been to CGC and a "married CF" has been detected, I believe a reputable dealer should offer a full refund (minus the $200 he already refunded).  

Some dealers might even go the extra yard and refund the CGC fee, or give an in-store discount off of merch... after all, if you're dealing high end comics, isn't one of the goals to build trust with your clients?

Edited February 10, 2020 by gadzukes

[The Lions Den]

2 minutes ago, gadzukes said:

I believe GA comics are the easiest to detect Married CFs because:

1) pages were trimmed wonky during the GA so it's very rare for CF edges to match up exactly on GA comics.

2) staple placement can be somewhat wonky on GA comics.  

3) because of the age of the paper for GA comics, you get the biggest variance of PQ for GA comics, which can make it easy to spot married wraps.

If I were the OP and discovered the CF was detached I would have immediately looked at the staple placement to see if it matched up.

All of us collectors should attempt to educate ourselves at least a little on what to look for when shelling out large sums of money for raw comics.

Having said all of this, once the comic has been to CGC and a "married CF" has been detected, I believe a reputable dealer should offer a full refund (minus the $200 he already refunded).

Great information. Thank you!  

[JollyComics]

2 hours ago, Pokecollectoramy said:

You get 60 days from the CC statement to file a dispute. I still have a a couple of weeks fortunately. 

I heard some CC companies can extend to 90 days. I hope it will work it out.

I had two comic related disputes in my lifetime but I sold them with little profits and moved on after the disputes took forever.  I learned something so it won't happen again with my cautious way.

Edited February 9, 2020 by JollyComics

[Pokecollectoramy]

9 minutes ago, gadzukes said:

I believe GA comics are the easiest to detect Married CFs because:

1) pages were trimmed wonky during the GA so it's very rare for CF edges to match up exactly on GA comics.

2) staple placement can be somewhat wonky on GA comics.  

3) because of the age of the paper for GA comics, you get the biggest variance of PQ for GA comics, which can make it easy to spot married wraps.

If I were the OP and discovered the CF was detached I would have immediately looked at the staple placement to see if it matched up.

All of us collectors should attempt to educate ourselves at least a little on what to look for when shelling out large sums of money for raw comics.

Having said all of this, once the comic has been to CGC and a "married CF" has been detected, I believe a reputable dealer should offer a full refund (minus the $200 he already refunded).

These are great tips, thank you. 

[gadzukes]

7 minutes ago, Pokecollectoramy said:

These are great tips, thank you. 

So..... by any chance....... when you saw the CF was detached, did you look at the staple placements of the CF as compared to the rest of the comic?

[comicwiz]

1 hour ago, Pokecollectoramy said:

Detached centerfold definitely doesn’t always get a green. In fact this is the first time I’ve had a detached centerfold/wrap come back green. The other times they were blue with a corresponding grade drop

My experience has been that it almost always get qualified, but my perception of this policy might be more representative of a certain era of comics, and it is very possible that GA gets the same exceptional treatment on this type of defect as they do with glue on the spine getting blue label.

Edited February 9, 2020 by comicwiz