Systemic print error identified by CGC board members
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In the past month or so, several different posters on these boards have identified the same print error in three different Silver-Age comics.  So far, no one seems to know anything about this error.  In each case, the comic has been what I am calling “reverse wrapped” at the printer.  Basically, the pages are assembled in reverse order so that the wrap that contains the first and last page of the comic is placed in the centerfold. 

Question for the board is:  If this is indeed a systemic printing error how do we get it acknowledged as such by the comic gods at CGC, Overstreet, etc.?   We comic people love our anomalies and screw ups but we like to have them documented by some “authority”.  Lends them authenticity I suppose.  This board has uncovered three of these “reverse wrap” errors in a very short time.  Might be a bunch of them out there.  People just don’t know what they heck they are.

Just below are links to the three error comics (two on CGC boards and one on eBay). Below that (if you are interested) I have outlined my theory on how this happens at the printer. 

Strange Tales #113

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/blogs/entry/5014-strange-tales-v1-113-oct-1963-extremely-rare-bindery-error/

Thor #150

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/463832-my-thor-150-is-bound-backwards/

Fantastic Four #63

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fantastic-Four-1961-63-Manufacturing-ERROR-Title-Page-At-Centerfold-Fine/402037837291?hash=item5d9b528deb:g:aZAAAOSwEaJeHgfd

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Looking at the three examples of this error unearthed by this board, I think I see how the error occurs and how it could be repeated.  See what you think.

There are eight page-wraps in a standard comic.  Each wrap contains four pages, two on each side.  At some point in the assembly process the eight wraps are stacked in order.  The top wrap will have the first page of the comic printed on the right side and the last page printed on the left, facing up.

At that point the cover (which is also a four-page wrap) is added to the stack face up, with the front cover on the right and the back cover on the left.  It is then stapled and folded down and the comic is correctly assembled.

Now, if those page wraps are initially inserted into the process upside down by error, then the wraps will be stacked in reverse order with the first wrap (the one with the first and last page) face down on the bottom of the stack.  Then, when the cover is added and the comic is stapled and folded, the wrap with the first and last page will now be the centerfold - which is exactly the case in the three examples we have seen.

I assume that someone checks the comics after a handful are run, so this error is likely caught most of the time.  However, if quality control is having a bad day or the printer is short-handed, some of them may make it through to distribution and out the door.  Probably not often and probably not many.

My guess is this error was far more likely in the earlier days of comics because the printing process would have involved more manual steps back then and more chances for screw ups.  The process no doubt became more automated and less susceptible to error over time.

So, what do you think?  Sound plausible?

If so, this board may have identified a systemic print error.  (Yaay us!)  And, if so, I think it merits a name.  My vote is for, “Reverse wrap” just because it rolls trippingly off the tongue. 

 

 

 

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Nice job on coming up with a plausible explanation for this anomaly.  

If any of these books are submitted for encapsulation, CGC will likely acknowledge them as a manufacturing error, which should be noted on the label. They should also note what the error consists of, such as "Interior wraps inserted in reverse order" or something to that effect.

I hope this helps...

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ASM 6 has 2 little colour breaks by the Lizard's lower hand.  I've seen exactly the same issue on loads of them.

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6 hours ago, mike devon said:

ASM 6 has 2 little colour breaks by the Lizard's lower hand.  I've seen exactly the same issue on loads of them.

The more you see, the more you know...

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7 hours ago, mike devon said:

ASM 6 has 2 little colour breaks by the Lizard's lower hand.  I've seen exactly the same issue on loads of them.

Are you referring to this issue where all of the internal wraps are reversed or something else? Have you seen a lot of reversed wrapped books or is this a color variation on a cover? 

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1 minute ago, Dan'el said:

Are you referring to this issue where all of the internal wraps are reversed or something else? Have you seen a lot of reversed wrapped books or is this a color variation on a cover? 

Hi - it looks like 2 little scratches on the front cover but I've seen exactly the same marks on at least 20 copies of the same book.

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25 minutes ago, mike devon said:

Hi - it looks like 2 little scratches on the front cover but I've seen exactly the same marks on at least 20 copies of the same book.

Okay, so this a different print error.  One that is on the cover.  This post is referring to comics that have the internal pages reversed.  So far, we have only identified three of those, all on Silver Age Marvel comics.  

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On 2/8/2020 at 9:27 PM, Dan'el said:

I think I see how the error occurs and how it could be repeated.  See what you think.

 

There are eight page-wraps in a standard comic.  Each wrap contains four pages, two on each side.  At some point in the assembly process the eight wraps are stacked in order.  The top wrap will have the first page of the comic printed on the right side and the last page printed on the left, facing up.

 

At that point the cover (which is also a four-page wrap) is added to the stack face up, with the front cover on the right and the back cover on the left.  It is then stapled and folded down and the comic is correctly assembled.

 

Now, if those page wraps are initially inserted into the process upside down by error, then the wraps will be stacked in reverse order with the first wrap (the one with the first and last page) face down on the bottom of the stack.  Then, when the cover is added and the comic is stapled and folded, the wrap with the first and last page will now be the centerfold - which is exactly the case in the three examples we have seen.

 

...

 

So, what do you think?  Sound plausible?

Yes, that is correct and literally the only way it could happen.

On 2/8/2020 at 9:27 PM, Dan'el said:

If so, this board may have identified a systemic print error.  (Yaay us!)  And, if so, I think it merits a name.  My vote is for, “Reverse wrap” just because it rolls trippingly off the tongue.

Do you have any idea how many different kinds of production errors exist? They really don't need special names.

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3 hours ago, Dan'el said:

So far, we have only identified three of those, all on Silver Age Marvel comics.

We've seen this before on other issues in at least one of the manufacturing error threads. It's not super common, but it happens.

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2 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Yes, that is correct and literally the only way it could happen.

Do you have any idea how many different kinds of production errors exist? They really don't need special names.

Glad to hear that others like this have popped up in the past.  Can't agree with you on the name issue though.  Giving a known defect a name, regardless of rarity, allows us to talk about it and be on the same page.  It makes the process more precise and objective. Names are good.  

Actually, I do not think there are that many possible printing defects and most of those already have names. Miswrapped cover, mistrimmed cover, Marvel chipping, missing or off-center staple, are all used consistently in grading.

Three of these particular issues surfaced in the past month (and you mentioned others have surfaced in the past), so it is apparently not that uncommon.  In this case, three different people described the phenomenon in three different ways and Lions Den suggested another way CGC might describe it.  Far better to give it a simple name (reversed wrapped or whatever) so we can discuss it and everyone will know exactly what we are talking about.

Another common flaw I would like to see named is those cover wrinkles or ridges or folds or whatever the heck they are called that show up fairly often – mostly on Bronze-Age comics it seems.  There does not seem to be a consistent way to discuss those either.  

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42 minutes ago, Dan'el said:

 

 

Another common flaw I would like to see named is those cover wrinkles or ridges or folds or whatever the heck they are called that show up fairly often – mostly on Bronze-Age comics it seems.  There does not seem to be a consistent way to discuss those either.  

 

We have that covered. Pleats. That's exactly what they are. Tight folds in the actual manufacturing of the paper. The paper is produced with a pleat (quality control issue), this goes to the printer, and the plate inks over the pleat, giving it the same effect as a wrinkle or crease, except that technically, if patient, you can unfold that tight pleat (not that you'd want to other than for experimenting to see the nature of exactly what it is) and in the center of it, the ink didn't take because the paper was tightly folded over. It's a paper production anomaly. Lots of books have that, front and back cover.

Edited by James J Johnson

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1 hour ago, James J Johnson said:

We have that covered. Pleats. That's exactly what they are. Tight folds in the actual manufacturing of the paper. The paper is produced with a pleat (quality control issue), this goes to the printer, and the plate inks over the pleat, giving it the same effect as a wrinkle or crease, except that technically, if patient, you can unfold that tight pleat (not that you'd want to other than for experimenting to see the nature of exactly what it is) and in the center of it, the ink didn't take because the paper was tightly folded over. It's a paper production anomaly. Lots of books have that, front and back cover.

Excellent!  Did not know that.  I do some selling on eBay and have never had the right words for that flaw.  Have heard that CGC tends to give it a pass, even on higher grade books.  Maybe because it lies outside the comic production process.  Still, I have seen some that are pretty ugly.

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40 minutes ago, Dan'el said:

Excellent!  Did not know that.  I do some selling on eBay and have never had the right words for that flaw.  Have heard that CGC tends to give it a pass, even on higher grade books.  Maybe because it lies outside the comic production process.  Still, I have seen some that are pretty ugly.

There's a thread here where at first it was being confused for a crease or printer's crease (incurred in the printing). And the truth of it is that it precedes the printing phase. It's already there, on the ream of paper that was delivered to the printer, a paper production flaw rather than a printing flaw most likely, as I suppose the same type of pleat (pre-print fold) in the paper might be able to be caused by a misalignment of the rails that feed the paper to under the plate; some type of misalignment of the paper that the press itself stamps and creates the pleat.

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45 minutes ago, Dan'el said:

Excellent!  Did not know that.  I do some selling on eBay and have never had the right words for that flaw.  Have heard that CGC tends to give it a pass, even on higher grade books.  Maybe because it lies outside the comic production process.  Still, I have seen some that are pretty ugly.

I think we had all voiced our observations that while seen commonly on CGC 9.2s, pleats weren't seen as much on 9.4s, rarely on a 9.6, and if I remember correctly, very scarce, if ever, on a 9.8. My personal observation is that I do't recall ever seeing one on a 9.8, maybe once on a 9.6, several on 9.4s, and many times on 9.0 and 9.2.

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