Vietnam PX Comic Book Inventory Question 0

[James J Johnson]

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2020 at 12:23 AM, JTLarsen said:

Ask the Pentagon and/or National Archives. You can also file FOIA requests!

This is actually quite easily done. All the information for making requests is given on line.

[wardevil0]

Marvel comics were not broadly banned from all PXs, as demonstrated by the "Mark Jewelers" inserts and "star stamped" covers from throughout the 70s. If Marvel Comics were intentionally banned from Viet Nam for some political purpose, I suggest they would have also been banned more widely at all PXs around the world. Not conclusive, of course, just an assessment. If I had to speculate, I'd say it was more of a logistics problem where the freight into Viet Nam was limited and the guy making the decision on what got to go in was more familiar with Batman and Superman so green-lit DC.

I'm not aware of any designated historian for either Marvel or DC (especially since everyone expected the comic companies to go broke at any moment), but AAFES (Army and Air Force Exchange Service, the office that runs the PX (Army) and BX (Air Force)) should have a unit historian at some level who may have a record of the decision.  Also might try the NEX (Navy Exchange) since they are managed by another office and would've been responsible for stores aboard ships.

Otherwise, I find this a fascinating topic.  My master's thesis was on the Cold War and included portions on how the Cold War was depicted in popular culture of the time. One of the books I bought but didn't use was "The End of Victory Culture" by Tom Englehardt; from the back cover: "This book is a compelling account of how a national narrative of triumph through which Americans had always sustained themselves as a people underwent a vertiginous decomposition from Hiroshima to Vietnam." If I had anything on-hand that directly related, it'd be here. I'll check the index this weekend.

I've read a few comic book histories (Slugfest, Marvel the Untold Story) and neither referenced anything about this.

I think a lot of current social issues were thinly veiled in Marvel Comics, such as the ethnic diversity of Sgt Fury's Howlers, that would've been anachronistic in WWII.

[shadroch]

If it's worth knowing, Pete Sanderson will know it. Probably true for a whole lot that isn't worth knowing, as well.

[wilbil]

On 2/12/2020 at 6:30 PM, cncapks said:

Thank you for that information davidtere. I'll see if I can find out anything from George Olshevsky, if I can get in touch with him.

Have you by any chance read the Loyola PHD dissertation submitted by Cord Scott, or possibly talked with him?

[cncapks]

Again, thank you for all of your responses. There's nothing quite like the comic book community. Please forgive me for being offline this weekend; I was busy celebrating by 40th birthday.

 

@thunsicker: I have contacted Peter Sanderson through Facebook (couldn't on twitter) and I'm waiting on his response. I would like to write Roy Thomas but I'm not sure of a definitive way of getting in contact with him. There are multiple fan pages dedicated to him on Facebook but I'm not sure if this is the best route.

 

@AJLewandoski: I have met and talked with Sternako before at a Baltimore Con. He was extremely nice but was not able to give me any information behind the curtain at Marvel. When he was not busy hitting on my wife, he only seemed interested in discussing his material.

 

@James J Johnson: you are correct and thank you

 

@wardevil0: first, thank you for a very interesting post as I have never heard of "Mark Jewelers" inserts or "star stamped" covers. I can't wait to investigate this further. Second, I'm not exactly sure about banning Marvel comic books from all PXs, its just that I've only seen this mentioned in one letter. The reason why I HAVE to know why this happened is because I can find no mention of it ever again. As far as finding official PX records, there is a trove at the National Archives at College Park, MD that I plan on visiting ASAP. I have found so far through other contacts (Dr. Gregory A. Daddis at Chapman University) information on how to ban offensive material on PXs and the exact number of comic books purchased by Star Publishing and shipped to VN in 1969. I found these numbers for Iron Man (12,000), Spider-Man (30,000), Captain Marvel (14,400), X-Men (21,600), Captain Savage (14,400), Marvel Tales (7,200), Dennis the Menace (17,600), Adventure Comics (24,000), Detective Comics (12,000), Our Army at War (18,000), Lois Lane (18, 400), Superman (20,000), Jimmy Olsen (12,000), Batman (14,400), Showcase (9,600), Worlds Finest (16,000), Challengers of the Unknown (10,800), GI Combat (6,000), House of Secrets (9,000), Metal Men (10,800), Star Spangled War Stories (7,800), House of Mystery (12,000), Our Fighting Heroes (9,000), and Strange Adventure (9,000). I also found Bugs Bunny (1,800), Flintstones (4,800), Dr Solar, Man of the Atom (3,600), Little Lulu (3,200), Korak, Son of Tarzan (9,000), Star Trek (4,000), Tarzan (8,000), Tom and Jerry (4,800), Turok, Son of Stone (4,000), and Woody Woodpecker (4,800). What's interesting to me wardevil0 is that there is no mention of Sgt Fury, the main series I'm working on, although Captain Savage is being sold. Lastly, thank you suggesting "The End of Victory Culture" by Tom Englehardt. I will absolutely check that out.

 

@wilbil: Yes I am familiar with the many works of Cord Scott but have not contacted him yet as I am trying to do as much work as I can before approaching him. I'm sure he will be extremely helpful but I do not want bother him just yet.

 

THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!

[wilbil]

Some info that may or may not be helpful, and possibly you already know.

Exchange operations in RVN transferred from Navy Exchange Saigon to Pacific Exchange system in Dec. 65, Christmas day to be exact. that decision was made by JCS in July 65. This was known as PACEX-VN Regional Exchange. At the time of the turnover in 65, the VN Regional Exchange was granted permission by HQ AAFES to enter into a non-standard contract for purchasing and distributing all periodicals. The non-standard contract was with Star Distributing Co.the contract was signed by LTC Goodlet for VRE and Joe DeMarco for Star. This contract ended in 70, because Star engaged in illegal currency manipulation, per the findings of the Ribicoff Committee. At that point VRE took total control of Periodicals. In 69 MACV Command, having already initiated PSYOPS, most notably 4th Group, received input from PSYOPS that previously authorized publications were in conflict with VRE distribution.

[wilbil]

1 hour ago, cncapks said:

When he was not busy hitting on my wife, he only seemed interested in discussing his material.

That is funny. Compliments to your wife. 

[cncapks]

20 hours ago, wilbil said:

Exchange operations in RVN transferred from Navy Exchange Saigon to Pacific Exchange system in Dec. 65, Christmas day to be exact. that decision was made by JCS in July 65. This was known as PACEX-VN Regional Exchange. At the time of the turnover in 65, the VN Regional Exchange was granted permission by HQ AAFES to enter into a non-standard contract for purchasing and distributing all periodicals. The non-standard contract was with Star Distributing Co.the contract was signed by LTC Goodlet for VRE and Joe DeMarco for Star. This contract ended in 70, because Star engaged in illegal currency manipulation, per the findings of the Ribicoff Committee. At that point VRE took total control of Periodicals. In 69 MACV Command, having already initiated PSYOPS, most notably 4th Group, received input from PSYOPS that previously authorized publications were in conflict with VRE distribution.

@wilbil: Do you have, or know of, any publication that states this exact information that I could use as a secondary source, or is this just something you know off the top of your head? Thanks!

[wilbil]

1 hour ago, cncapks said:

@wilbil: Do you have, or know of, any publication that states this exact information that I could use as a secondary source, or is this just something you know off the top of your head? Thanks!

I have excerpts and some Ops Orders on most of it because of a secondary MOS of 76Y50. Someone  mentioned the Star stamped covers selling throughout the 70s. This was holdover stock. Star was terminated in 70. Also remember there was a huge periodicals black market. There was also a mention of logistics/freight issue. This is true if discussing time for shipment from CONUS. There were some specific Pacific theater problems from time to time because of popularity, because local Pacific items being out of stock, such as Japan porcelain, which is to be expected when talking about a logistics system dealing with over 36,000 line items+, but not with periodicals. Even the Stars and Stripes was on time in all Pacific locations after PACEX took over distribution.

If I was to point to a publication that has not already been discussed in this very interesting thread, it would be the Ribicoff Committee hearings. I was sort of surprised it was not mentioned.

[cncapks]

2 hours ago, wilbil said:

If I was to point to a publication that has not already been discussed in this very interesting thread, it would be the Ribicoff Committee hearings. I was sort of surprised it was not mentioned

First off, thank you for your service, wilbil. I myself am a veteran (Operation Iraqi Freedom) but still had to google MOS 76Y. I'm sure with that MOS you would definitely be familiar with the publication and distribution of periodicals in VN. I've just found on Google Books the Review of Military Exchanges and Commissaries and Related Activities held by the House of Representatives, Committee of Armed Services, Subcommittee of Exchanges and Commissaries held in Washington D.C. on June 16th 1970.  Its rather lengthy, as you would expect, but it lays it all out.

 

In my original post, I showed the letter written by the soldier explaining that Marvel Comics could not be found in an PX in VN. I did not post the staff's response:

Amen to that, Brother Keith — and we hope you're out of exile soon. That name tape you found sort of worried us, until we realized that it had to be a plant. Guess the Cong don't know how to spell "America." [paragraph break] But, seriously, we've got a stack of letters from Nam complaining that our books disappeared. We don't know what's happened yet, but we've got a guy checking it out with the distributor, and when we know something, we’ll pass it on to you guys soonest.

I have since checked other letter columns, Marvel Bullpen Bulletins, and Stan's Soapboxes but I can't find any mention of it ever again. I guess the search continues.

Thank you all for your interest and comments. 

 

[wardevil0]

@cncapks In summary, there is a subset of advertising inserts targeted specifically at servicemen from companies like National Diamond Sales, Mark Jewelers, Mennen personal grooming, Alka Seltzer, and Bose speakers that were included in some issues distributed through military newsstand channels. In most cases, the newsstand was located inside the PX but ran as a separate entity, so if you paid for your comics at the newsstand inside the PX they would use an ink stamp (usually blue/indigo, usually six-pointed, usually over the cover price) to prove that you had paid your 20 cents or whatever. Most of this information is anecdotal/apocryphal, but @awe4one had an exceptional website outlining all known variations. So, at a glance, you can tell with pretty high confidence if a book was sold through the military system. I have several star-stamped issues in the 1979-1981 era. Of course, even a star-stamped Sgt Fury 80 (September 1970) wouldn't guarantee it was available in Vietnam, just the military system somewhere worldwide.

[wilbil]

Just a few things, the newsstand did not operate as a separate entity. There were separate contractors that were still controlled by PACEX, but periodicals were completely controlled by PACEX. Mark Jewelers was a contractor and did a big sweetheart jewelry business and had their own advertising operation, as did other entities, yet were completely controlled by PACEX contract terms. It was just not rented space. Periodical racks were specifically under the control of PACEX, and this was a major factor in having PACEX take over Stars and Stripes distribution. The Mark Jewelers and other entity stamps were also used as an identifier counter-black market method. Some of the stamps by these entities were by the contracted salesperson as a a shoplifting deterrent and periodical count, because there were occasions when the contracted salesperson was responsible for x number of copies. The Star copies were strictly a distribution identifier.

There were no star stamped issues in 79-81 in RVN, except black market copies and/or left behind stock when the U.S. evacuated. That I am very sure of. There were Mark Jewelers/other private entity stamps used in South Korea and Philippines and other Pacific theater commands, but all were issued and controlled by PACEX, until the realignment in late 78.

I hope this helps.

1 hour ago, cncapks said:

First off, thank you for your service, wilbil. I myself am a veteran (Operation Iraqi Freedom) but still had to google MOS 76Y. I'm sure with that MOS you would definitely be familiar with the publication and distribution of periodicals in VN. I've just found on Google Books the Review of Military Exchanges and Commissaries and Related Activities held by the House of Representatives, Committee of Armed Services, Subcommittee of Exchanges and Commissaries held in Washington D.C. on June 16th 1970.  Its rather lengthy, as you would expect, but it lays it all out.

That is the one. Everyone, all the way up to MACV HQ were nervous about that investigation. There were a lot of star busting and career busting issues that made a lot of people nervous. The size and scope and graft and $ of the military exchange business was enormous.

Thank you for your service. In some ways your theater was a hell of a lot more dangerous. Glad you came thru. 

[wardevil0]

The End of Victory Culture doesn't address the issue of PX bans specifically, but does say this about comics of the era: "Take Sgt Rock, that heroic World War II noncom of DC Comics' Our Army at War series. Each issue of his adventures now sported a new seal that proclaimed, "make WAR no more," while his resolutely World War II-bound adventures were being undermined by a new enemylike consciousness. The cover of a June 1971 issue, for instance, showed the intrepid but shaken sergeant stuttering, "B-but they were civilians!" and pointing at the bodies of five men, none in uniform, who seemed to have been lined up against a wall and executed. Next to him, a GI, his submachine gun still smoking, exclaims, "I stopped the enemy, Rock! None of 'em got away!" (page 178)

Englehardt, Tom. The End of Victory Culture, Revised Ed. University of Massachusetts Press, 2007. 

[JollyComics]

Both Vietnam veterans Doug Murray and Don Lomax wrote war stories in Marvel 'Nam series based on their experiences.

Don Lomax did his own publisher Apple Comics and did his artworks/stories in Vietnam Journals.

Maybe you can try them and share with their insights and may know the PX incidents on your thesis.

Edited February 20, 2020 by JollyComics

[wilbil]

2 hours ago, wardevil0 said:

The End of Victory Culture doesn't address the issue of PX bans specifically, but does say this about comics of the era: "Take Sgt Rock, that heroic World War II noncom of DC Comics' Our Army at War series. Each issue of his adventures now sported a new seal that proclaimed, "make WAR no more," while his resolutely World War II-bound adventures were being undermined by a new enemylike consciousness. The cover of a June 1971 issue, for instance, showed the intrepid but shaken sergeant stuttering, "B-but they were civilians!" and pointing at the bodies of five men, none in uniform, who seemed to have been lined up against a wall and executed. Next to him, a GI, his submachine gun still smoking, exclaims, "I stopped the enemy, Rock! None of 'em got away!" (page 178)

Englehardt, Tom. The End of Victory Culture, Revised Ed. University of Massachusetts Press, 2007. 

This was a direct reference to My Lai.