ComicLink's next Featured Auction Has Started Posting Books 17 17

[lou_fine]

On 2/15/2021 at 8:00 PM, Professor Chaos said:

I'm still trying to figure out who these people bidding like mad on everything are. I know I'm a broken record about it but I'm truly baffled. And its not even heavy last minute action in most auctions, its mostly right out of the gate bidding frenzies. I just don't get it. 

 

Yes, I took a quick look at this auction and there did indeed seem like a lot of rather aggressive bidding in the first few days.  

Looks like it has mostly slowed right back down the past few days though, with most of the lots sitting somewhere around 60% to 65% or thereabouts to where they will most likely end up finishing at.  I guess we will have to wait for the last few days to see more action on most of these books here, although I guess we won't have to wait right until the end of the auction like we have to with CC where a lot of their action takes place in the extended bidding on the hot books.     

Edited February 18, 2021 by lou_fine

[manofsteel]

5 hours ago, lou_fine said:

 

Since it's all in fun for us then, what's your best guess as to the final price for this gorgeous looking copy of AA 61 then?  

 

5 hours ago, bpc3qh said:

I'd say somewhere between $42-48k, so approximately 3.5-4x guide.

Any speculation on what the single 9.8 would fetch at auction? 

[bpc3qh]

1 hour ago, manofsteel said:

 

Any speculation on what the single 9.8 would fetch at auction? 

I would think six figures, because it's the single highest graded of the first appearance of a premier villain (and a classic cover to boot). But nothing higher than a 7.5 has been recorded by GPA, which I find remarkable.

[lou_fine]

6 minutes ago, bpc3qh said:

2 hours ago, manofsteel said:

 

Any speculation on what the single 9.8 would fetch at auction? 

I would think six figures, because it's the single highest graded of the first appearance of a premier villain (and a classic cover to boot).

I would tend to agree with you although it should be pointed out that the same kind of multiples don't seem to be paid for graded GA labels, as opposed to more recent books such as Bat 181, 'Tec 359, etc. where it all seems to be about the label since there are already so many copies in similar high grade.  

 

18 minutes ago, bpc3qh said:

But nothing higher than a 7.5 has been recorded by GPA, which I find remarkable.

Not really since this is such a classic and one of the best GA covers out there, that for most collectors it's a keeper if they have anything close to a half decent copy.      

[bpc3qh]

12 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

I would tend to agree with you although it should be pointed out that the same kind of multiples don't seem to be paid for graded GA labels, as opposed to more recent books such as Bat 181, 'Tec 359, etc. where it all seems to be about the label since there are already so many copies in similar high grade.  

This is an excellent comparison; if anything, I would expect it to go for more, just because it's the *single highest graded copy*, combined with the same number on the label as those SA Bats. I would agree if it were, say, an 8.0 or an 8.5 (or even a 9.2/9.4), but when it's the 9.8 I think we're gonna get the same benefits to it.

 

14 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

for most collectors it's a keeper if they have anything close to a half decent copy.      

That's a very fair point; I buy more in SA where there isn't *this* level of rarity, and you have owners cashing out because they can always get a lower-graded copy while using the rest of the proceeds to pick up another grail book as well.

[lou_fine]

On 2/12/2021 at 3:04 AM, Professor Chaos said:

On 2/11/2021 at 11:17 PM, lou_fine said:

Yes, if I compare the CVA sticker to the QES sticker, I would prefer the latter since the CVA sticker is pretty much generic while the QES sticker at least makes some sort of an attempt to list the specific factors as to why the book in question qualified for the sticker.  

If I may ask, as a potential bidder on a particular book, why would the presence of a sticker on the slab tend to bother you since you are not paying directly for the sticker itself?   Especially since it's really there to impart a bit more information to you as a potential bidder that the assigned technical CGC grade itself might not be taking into account.     

Well......I'll give you an example as to one reason I am not a fan of those shiny little silver badges. In the January CL auction was a book that sold for 2,600 without the cva. I noticed before it ended that there was the same book with the same grade/page color coming in the Winter auction. Both looked very much the same. I got outbid in January. Ok, I'll bid ridiculously, with reckless abandonment, with no regard to recent sales prices (which seems to be the norm in comic collecting the past 6 months or so) in the Winter auction. But suddenly out of nowhere the book in the Winter auction magically grew a cva sticker and on the opening day it is already up to 2600. 

Professor;

Have you ever considered the possibility that in this very grade-centric marketplace of ours, that speculators or flippers might be looking at the CVA or QES stickers as books with a much much higher probability of being bumped up to a higher grade upon a resub, wherther it be through the usual CPR play or simply through a straight resub?   As such, these types of potential buyers might just be willing to bid a bit higher on these books than they would the ones without the stickers.   

Not sure about the CVA stickers since they appear to be a generic sticker for any book that's deemed to be exceptional relative to the assigned CGC grade.  The QES sticker at least seems to impart a bit more information since I assume if you find one that denotes the usual strong colors along with perfect edges and spine placement, etc. (all relative to assigned CGC grade again), then should this book not stand a better chance for a potential upgrade upon a resub?  Especially if the only major item left are probably certain grade killing defects like tiny near invisible NCB ticks which although cannot be seen in a scan sometimes, but can be if held in hand at a certain angle to the light and shall we say "easily fixable".    

[Professor K]

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Professor;

Have you ever considered the possibility that in this very grade-centric marketplace of ours, that speculators or flippers might be looking at the CVA or QES stickers as books with a much much higher probability of being bumped up to a higher grade upon a resub, wherther it be through the usual CPR play or simply through a straight resub?   As such, these types of potential buyers might just be willing to bid a bit higher on these books than they would the ones without the stickers.   

Not sure about the CVA stickers since they appear to be a generic sticker for any book that's deemed to be exceptional relative to the assigned CGC grade.  The QES sticker at least seems to impart a bit more information since I assume if you find one that denotes the usual strong colors along with perfect edges and spine placement, etc. (all relative to assigned CGC grade again), then should this book not stand a better chance for a potential upgrade upon a resub?  Especially if the only major item left are probably certain grade killing defects like tiny near invisible NCB ticks which although cannot be seen in a scan sometimes, but can be if held in hand at a certain angle to the light and shall we say "easily fixable".    

I'm sure there are people seeking and bidding on the CVA and QES books with the intention of getting them resubbed. But I don't think many. I mean whats better a 9.0 CVA or a 9.2 non CVA? From what I've seen the majority of us don't care much for the stickers but its sure not going to cause anybody to not go after one because it has the sticker. And yes the sticker will create incentive for some people to bid more and raise the end price of the book. 

Do the QES stickers come with some sort of documentation of the reasons the sticker was given? If so I guess thats a good thing. Then again they are not cracking the slab so its not like they can see things we can't (except for like you said some things aren't noticeable in scans and pics). 

So are the stickers a good tool for collectors to have? I suppose so. But personally I could take them or leave them. Not against them but not a big fan. I do agree with the good points/examples you mentioned. 

 

[Professor K]

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FSEARCH.ASP%3FFocusedOnly%3D1%26where%3Dauctions%26title%3Ddetective%2Bcomics%26ItemType%3DCA%23Item_1458113&id=1458113&itemType=1#detail

Edited February 20, 2021 by Professor Chaos

[lou_fine]

15 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

I'm sure there are people seeking and bidding on the CVA and QES books with the intention of getting them resubbed. But I don't think many. I mean whats better a 9.0 CVA or a 9.2 non CVA?

I would imagine that's the whole purpose of the CVA or the QES stickers as it's simply indicating from their point of view that the CGC 9.0 book with the sticker presents better than its assigned grade.  Since potential bidders only get to see a scan of the book and don't have the advantage of seeing the slab or raw book in hand, I assume this is simply trying to provide them with a bit more information in terms of their subjective opinion on the grade assigned to the book in question.  

Personally, I also don't care much for the stickers and probably wouldn't bid that much more for a book that has one on them.  But then again, I am not that much of a grade conscious bidder in the first place as I also wouldn't pay that much more for a book that's one or two grade increments higher, as it's really more about the book to me and whether I want that book in my personal collection, as opposed to that big number on the top left corner.  Clearly the reason why I don't win very many books at auction though.    

Then again, it's really a case of to each, their own as to a lot of bidders, it's all about that number, especially when it comes to the more recent books which are readily available in uber high grade and the grade is the only differentiation between them.  For those bidders, the CVA or QES stickers do possibly matter to them a bit more.  

 

On 2/12/2021 at 3:04 AM, Professor Chaos said:

And besides I don't need no stinking badge to tell me what a nice example for the grade looks like. You probably agree for the most part right? 

 

Professor;

I remember seeing this line from you in a previous post from a few days ago and then I thought of this example here and being almost blind as a bat when it comes to these things , I would love to hear your opinion on this particular book here.  

If all you've got to go is this scan before you decide to bid on this File Copy book or not, would you simply bid based upon the CGC 9.0 grade that's been assigned by CGC, or bid slightly higher even though it's doesn't have one of those stickers on it since you yourself think it's nicer than 9.0, or throw in a lower bid since CGC obviously blew it by overgrading the book based upon what you can see from the scan:    

Edited February 20, 2021 by lou_fine

[Professor K]

Oh boy. First I think I only used that line once, a reference to an old Bogey movie.

Ok now to attempt to answer your question, but I feel I may be walking into a trap. Hope not, but if so that's fine. I wouldn't bid higher because it doesn't have a sticker. It looks pretty good for the grade so I think I'd bid based on that, however with no back cover scan I may not bid at all. I always think if a seller is not showing the back cover they may be either lazy or hiding something.  So final answer I would bid according to the assigned grade because I do trust CGC for the most part. 

I hope I chose the right answer. I really want to win that new car. 

[Dr. Love]

btw HA has changed their policy to include back covers for all books, big and small, except their group lots.  A most welcome and unexpected change from the biggest player in the room.  Now if they could only free up some petty cash to hire somebody to write copy describing the books...unbelievable lack for an outfit that size.  Now that's where CL really shines.  That guy should get an award, he's brilliant.

And as far as "seller is not showing the back cover they may be either lazy or hiding something", that describes the majority of sellers on this board.  I'm not talking on just $5 books either - I've seen mid 5 digit books, mid grade where you really do need to see the back to understand the grade, and no back scan given.  Some think they're being generous when they say back scans on request.  Give me a break.  

 

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

I always think if a seller is not showing the back cover they may be either lazy or hiding something.

I guess I am like you in that I think it's often times easier to see the flaws in a book from the back cover because they don't have all of that artwork and color getting in the way.  Since this was a Heritage auction, here's a copy of the back cover scan for you to peruse at your leisure:  

 

2 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

I hope I chose the right answer. I really want to win that new car. 

Well, by paying only CGC 9.0 prices on this copy here, you are the proud winner of 2 new cars as this File Copy actually turned out to be a CGC 9.6 graded copy:  

To tell you the honest truth though, with my obvious failing eyes, I really can't see that much of a difference between the 2 scans to warrant a 3-step incremental difference in the grading of the book here.    

Well, my bad as this copy here should probably have come with one of those stickers as I clearly must be blind since this CGC 9.6 graded copy has now been removed from the CGC Population Report and the census count for a CGC 9.8 graded copy has now increased by one.  Go figure that as I guess it's kind of hard to tell the difference between a CGC 9.0 graded book from a CGC 9.8 graded copy sometimes by just looking at a scan, as opposed to having the actual slab or raw book in hand, although I personally wouldn't pay that much more for either a sticker or a higher grade while others surely would.    

I just find it kind of sad how much grading has changed from when CGC first opened their doors and it has now reached the point that if you don't play by their rules, you will clearly be punished when it comes to grading on your book. 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by lou_fine

[Professor K]

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I guess I am like you in that I think it's often times easier to see the flaws in a book from the back cover because they don't have all of that artwork and color getting in the way.  Since this was a Heritage auction, here's a copy of the back cover scan for you to peruse at your leisure:  

 

Well, by paying only CGC 9.0 prices on this copy here, you are the proud winner of 2 new cars as this File Copy actually turned out to be a CGC 9.6 graded copy:  

To tell you the honest truth though, with my obvious failing eyes, I really can't see that much of a difference between the 2 scans to warrant a 3-step incremental difference in the grading of the book here.    

Well, my bad as this copy here should probably have come with one of those stickers as I clearly must be blind since this CGC 9.6 graded copy has now been removed from the CGC Population Report and the census count for a CGC 9.8 graded copy has now increased by one.  Go figure that as I guess it's kind of hard to tell the difference between a CGC 9.0 graded book from a CGC 9.8 graded copy sometimes by just looking at a scan, as opposed to having the actual slab or raw book in hand, although I personally wouldn't pay that much more for either a sticker or a higher grade while others surely would.    

I just find it kind of sad how much grading has changed from when CGC first opened their doors and it has now reached the point that if you don't play by their rules, you will clearly be punished when it comes to grading on your book. 

 

Wow. I thought it looked good for a 9.0 but 9.6? 9.2 ok, 9.4 yeah maybe. So you think that actual book might be sitting in a 9.8 holder now? Do you think it went from a 9.6 to a 9.8? There are no 9.6's, 9.4's or 9.2's in the census so it does seem to look like its currently a 9.8. 

I don't know the process of getting a CVA sticker put on a graded book works. I would hope that whoever makes the decision must at least have the book in hand to make that decision and also have access to any graders notes. I would think that book, which is a pretty cool book by the way, would have gotten a CVA sticker as a 9.0. 

My original gripe here about CVA was that I had noticed a few books from the CL Winter auction didn't have the stickers on them a month ago then right before the auction started they did. That indicates to me that ComicLink was involved with getting the stickers put on because they must have had them in hand before they had the stickers in order to take the scans. All this is why I am not a fan of the stickers. Overcomplicates things. A grade is a grade and as a collector I can decide which books look good for the grade or not.

As far as all the examples of books getting bumped up one, two, three grades over time thats another issue. To me if anything it kind of diminishes credibility of the company. But they are the best we have so I'm not complaining. 

[LDarkseid1]

I’ve always perceived CVA and QES as simply implying the book presents nicer for the grade, but it’s still the grade. So I wouldn’t resub one with either sticker personally. Like a particular book graded at 9.2 maybe has flaws that no matter what it’s staying a 9.2, but looks damn good as a 9.2.  CVA and QES more apply from my perception to a spine being more nicely centered, staples more nicely centered, stuff like that.

Edited February 21, 2021 by LDarkseid1

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, LDarkseid1 said:

I’ve always perceived CVA and QES as simply implying the book presents nicer for the grade, but it’s still the grade. So I wouldn’t resub one with either sticker personally. Like a particular book graded at 9.2 maybe has flaws that no matter what it’s staying a 9.2, but looks damn good as a 9.2.  CVA and QES more apply from my perception to a spine being more nicely centered, staples more nicely centered, stuff like that.

Even though it's the weekend and a Saturday night, it's still not a good idea to be overdosing yourself when it comes to the CGC Kool-Aid.  

Especially if you are leaning towards the thinking that grading is an exact science since you seem to believe that the grade is the grade.  From my own personal point of view, grading is really more of an art and an opinion at a particular point in time, and as such, can be greatly influenced by various factors.  

Some of them might possibly be pre-planned and internal due either to the changing of undisclosed grading standards or shifting between loose grading and tight grading time periods.  Others might be external with submittors proactively performing undisclosed activities to maximize the potential of their books.  Then again, some of them might be purely unintentional because grading is really after all, nothing more than an opinion subject to human error and hence, not the exact science we all wish that it can be. 

After all, as we have seen on many occasions in the past whereby books are being pushed up by multiple grade increments such as an Action 1 going from CGC 8.0 up to CGC 9.0, a Bat 1 going from CGC 9.0 up CGC 9.4, or even the above Crackajack Funnies 9 going from a CGC 9.0 up to a CGC 9.8.  Sadly, in this current marketplace reality of ours whereby flippers and CGC label collectors are trying to get the highest grade for their books, I would resort to common sense and tend to think that books that already present nicer than their assigned CGC grades stands a better chance of getting an upgrade when compared to books that simply presents okay or in line with their assigned CGC grade.    

Well, at least that's my bottom line rationale for why some bidders might be willing to bid higher for books with these CVA and/or QES stickers.  

[lou_fine]

On 2/12/2021 at 4:56 AM, Professor Chaos said:

There are some awesome books. A few Detectives from 1937/38 that you hardly ever see. Best auction they've had in a while.

Yes, just took a quick look at my email from CL yesterday and it certainly does look like they have a much better than usual selection of GA books on this particular go round here.    

Looks like this sharp looking copy of 'Tec 38 (save for that fugly looking attenpted erasure on the front cover   ) has already hit $90K, but still hasn't met the reserve yet which makes me kind of curious as to what the Reserve Price has been set at:    

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault.asp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26ItemType%3D0%26f1%3Da.MaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di.Title%2C%2Bi.IssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da.MaxBid%26ODire3%3DDESC%26pg%3D1%23Item_1458560&id=1458560&itemType=0

[LDarkseid1]

40 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Even though it's the weekend and a Saturday night, it's still not a good idea to be overdosing yourself when it comes to the CGC Kool-Aid.  

Especially if you are leaning towards the thinking that grading is an exact science since you seem to believe that the grade is the grade.  From my own personal point of view, grading is really more of an art and an opinion at a particular point in time, and as such, can be greatly influenced by various factors.  

Some of them might possibly be pre-planned and internal due either to the changing of undisclosed grading standards or shifting between loose grading and tight grading time periods.  Others might be external with submittors proactively performing undisclosed activities to maximize the potential of their books.  Then again, some of them might be purely unintentional because grading is really after all, nothing more than an opinion subject to human error and hence, not the exact science we all wish that it can be. 

After all, as we have seen on many occasions in the past whereby books are being pushed up by multiple grade increments such as an Action 1 going from CGC 8.0 up to CGC 9.0, a Bat 1 going from CGC 9.0 up CGC 9.4, or even the above Crackajack Funnies 9 going from a CGC 9.0 up to a CGC 9.8.  Sadly, in this current marketplace reality of ours whereby flippers and CGC label collectors are trying to get the highest grade for their books, I would resort to common sense and tend to think that books that already present nicer than their assigned CGC grades stands a better chance of getting an upgrade when compared to books that simply presents okay or in line with their assigned CGC grade.    

Well, at least that's my bottom line rationale for why some bidders might be willing to bid higher for books with these CVA and/or QES stickers.  

Yeah I mean I got a CVA on my Batman 232 CGC 9.6. It was never going to get a 9.8 because of some subtle spine and edge wear, but it was one SWEET 9.6. White pages, nicely centered flat spine.

[Gotham Kid]

26 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Looks like this sharp looking copy of 'Tec 38 (save for that fugly looking attenpted erasure on the front cover   ) has already hit $90K, but still hasn't met the reserve yet which makes me kind of curious as to what the Reserve Price has been set at:    

Actually, it was set to 90K with (Reserve not yet met) à la what Heritage does with items not doing as expected. Bidding was

in the 60s and there was no reserve.

So 95K should clear reserve.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Gotham Kid

[lou_fine]

8 minutes ago, LDarkseid1 said:

Yeah I mean I got a CVA on my Batman 232 CGC 9.6. It was never going to get a 9.8 because of some subtle spine and edge wear, but it was one SWEET 9.6. White pages, nicely centered flat spine.

Is this a copy of Bat 232 that you brought and it came already with the CVA or is this a copy that you were planning to sell and they asked if you wanted a CVA sticker applied to it.  

Either way, it definitely sounds like a pretty sweet book to me and certainly one that I would never kick out of my personal collection.     

[lou_fine]

5 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

25 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Looks like this sharp looking copy of 'Tec 38 (save for that fugly looking attenpted erasure on the front cover   ) has already hit $90K, but still hasn't met the reserve yet which makes me kind of curious as to what the Reserve Price has been set at:    

Actually, it was set to 90K with (Reserve not yet met) à la what Heritage does with items not doing as expected. Bidding was

in the 60s and there was no reserve.

So 95K should clear reserve.

Definitely don't really care for it when the auction houses uses this strategy with respect to their lots with a reserved price on them.  

Even more so when there's still 3+ days to go and the bid history indicates the highest bid to be only at $65K.  Figure they could have at least waited until the final last morning to bump it up to the reserve price instead of almost a full 4 days in advance.