ComicLink's next Featured Auction Has Started Posting Books 17 17

[Gotham Kid]

Don't think I have EVER noticed that Bid History button

Good to know. Do CC or HA have something similar ?

I knew what was going on with the 38 as I was doing a routine check.

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Gotham Kid

[LDarkseid1]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

Is this a copy of Bat 232 that you brought and it came already with the CVA or is this a copy that you were planning to sell and they asked if you wanted a CVA sticker applied to it.  

Either way, it definitely sounds like a pretty sweet book to me and certainly one that I would never kick out of my personal collection.     

No brought to auction and they did the “do you want CVA thing”. I had previously got it pressed with CCS and graded and it came back the 9.6. Some things you got to sell to pursue more important ventures 😁. But it was a nice book indeed.

[lou_fine]

3 hours ago, Gotham Kid said:

Actually, it was set to 90K with (Reserve not yet met) à la what Heritage does with items not doing as expected. Bidding was

in the 60s and there was no reserve.

So 95K should clear reserve.

Makes me wonder if they will also end up doing this with the Tomb of Dracula 10 since it's still kind of stuck sitting there at $57K for now?  

Looks like it took a big jump from $50K to $70K in the last go round before this move put the wheels in motion to have pull in a few more bids to get it up to $85K:  

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/history.asp?item=1099710&back=%2Fauctions%2Fitem.asp%3Fid%3D1099710

They might just be hoping this same strategy works for the 'Tec 38 and be able to pull in a few more bids.  

[manofsteel]

Anyone know what the asterisks before the bid amounts mean?

[Professor K]

1 hour ago, manofsteel said:

Anyone know what the asterisks before the bid amounts mean?

I believe that means that is the amount you must bid to satisfy the reserve. If you look at bid history the high bid is actually 8,107 as of this moment.

[manofsteel]

19 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

I believe that means that is the amount you must bid to satisfy the reserve. If you look at bid history the high bid is actually 8,107 as of this moment.

Gotcha. Thanks. 

[lou_fine]

On 2/20/2021 at 5:10 PM, Professor Chaos said:

On 2/20/2021 at 2:02 PM, lou_fine said:

To tell you the honest truth though, with my obvious failing eyes, I really can't see that much of a difference between the 2 scans to warrant a 3-step incremental difference in the grading of the book here.    

Well, my bad as this copy here should probably have come with one of those stickers as I clearly must be blind since this CGC 9.6 graded copy has now been removed from the CGC Population Report and the census count for a CGC 9.8 graded copy has now increased by one.  Go figure that as I guess it's kind of hard to tell the difference between a CGC 9.0 graded book from a CGC 9.8 graded copy sometimes by just looking at a scan, as opposed to having the actual slab or raw book in hand, although I personally wouldn't pay that much more for either a sticker or a higher grade while others surely would.    

I just find it kind of sad how much grading has changed from when CGC first opened their doors and it has now reached the point that if you don't play by their rules, you will clearly be punished when it comes to grading on your book. 

 

Expand  

Wow. I thought it looked good for a 9.0 but 9.6? 9.2 ok, 9.4 yeah maybe. So you think that actual book might be sitting in a 9.8 holder now? Do you think it went from a 9.6 to a 9.8? There are no 9.6's, 9.4's or 9.2's in the census so it does seem to look like its currently a 9.8. 

Like you said, since there is no longer a 9.6 copy listed in the census, I am pretty much 100% sure that it is now residing in a CGC 9.8 holder since the census count for 9.8's had increased by one after the 9.6 had been deleted.  Unlike you though, I tend to look at it from the other angle and if the book is now sitting in a CGC 9.8 holder and we cannot tell any significant differences (if any?) between the CGC 9.0 scan and the CGC 9.6 scan, than just maybe it should never have been in a CGC 9.0 holder in the first place.   

Interesting story about this book personally for me if you don't falling asleep  while reading.  Flash back to the early 90's and I responded to an ad in CBG for some Poughkeepsie File Copy books in which I ended up picking up over a dozen of these books including several of these Crackajack Funnies along with some random Four Color issues of Flash Gordon, Don Winslow, King of the Royal Mounted, and the likes.  Super nice dealer from Michigan who had just recently retired by then and was helping a former long time customer of his dispose of some of his books.  Gave me a great deal at a big big discount off the top of guide prices due to the number of books that I was ordering.  

Not expecting much in terms of grade like your typical CBG ads, I was astounded when I received the books in the mail since they looked minty fresh with strong colors like they had just come off the printing press.  Called the dealer back right away and asked him if he had other copies such as Crackajack Funnies 9 since I knew this was the first appearance of Red Ryder and he responded that he would be receiving more books from this customer and would be sure to give me a call once he got them because he was quite sure that there were more Crackajack's in the collection.  Fast forward about another 6 months or so and I see another ad in the CBG with the Poughkeepsie File copy of Crackajack Funnies 9 in there along with a whole bunch of other file copy issues.  Called the dealer right away who informed me that all of the books were already sold and that he had wanted to call me, but had apparently misplaced my phone number and contact information.    

Fast forward several more years to when CGC first opened their doors and I decided to send in about a dozen of my books, including a couple of these File Copy books, to test this so-called new grading system in advance of the big Greg Manning Auction that was scheduled to take place later that year in 2000.  Was actually quite happy when all of them came back in the grade range of CGC 9.2 to CGC 9.6, with both of the file copies coming in at CGC 9.6 even though the Crackajack that I had sent in was not the best of the bunch from a condition point of view.  As a result, I am not too surprised that the Crackajack Funnies 9 posted above would manage to get a CGC 9.8 grade in the end.  

My own takeaway is that it shows how much their undisclosed grading standards have changed over time.  My bet is that when I got my books graded way back in 2000, they were graded based upon the traditional grading standards that had historically been in place prior to CGC and before Heritage entered onto the scene in 2002.  Sadly, over the years I believe there have been some subtle but significant changes made to their undisclosed grading standards to facilitate the CPR game which is now clearly in full swing.  My bet is that if I send in these books for grading today, they would get no more than a CGC 8.5 or CGC 9.0 because although they look minty fresh and near perfect like some of the few Church books which I have, if you hold them up and bend them at a certain angle to the light, you can see a few barely imperceptible tiny NCB tick marks on the spines of most of them.  

I hate it when they take these barely visible defects and seemingly move them to the top of their grading hit parade while letting more obvious and fugly defects go without much of a drop in grade.  Makes total and complete sense business wise though, since these are clearly low hanging additional revenue generating defects and since CCG is a business after all, and whatever helps CCS and CGC (and HA through their overlapping ownership) will certainly help both their own corporate top and bottom lines.  I guess it also doesn't hurt that you now have the former "King of Pressing" in place as your head grader.   

Bottom-line though, regardless of whether it's in a CGC 9.0 holder, a CGC 9.6 holder, or a CGC 9.8 holder, all I know is that particular File Copy of Crackajack Funnies 9 should actually be locked away raw and ungraded in my personal collection right next to my other file copies. 

[lou_fine]

On 2/20/2021 at 9:18 PM, Gotham Kid said:

Don't think I have EVER noticed that Bid History button

Good to know. Do CC or HA have something similar ?

Yeah, go figure that as CL is actually providing some useful historical information that both HA and CC don't provide.    

Best not to mention this though, otherwise they might get wind of it and take this useful feature away from us.  

[Professor K]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

Like you said, since there is no longer a 9.6 copy listed in the census, I am pretty much 100% sure that it is now residing in a CGC 9.8 holder since the census count for 9.8's had increased by one after the 9.6 had been deleted.  Unlike you though, I tend to look at it from the other angle and if the book is now sitting in a CGC 9.8 holder and we cannot tell any significant differences (if any?) between the CGC 9.0 scan and the CGC 9.6 scan, than just maybe it should never have been in a CGC 9.0 holder in the first place.   

Interesting story about this book personally for me if you don't falling asleep  while reading.  Flash back to the early 90's and I responded to an ad in CBG for some Poughkeepsie File Copy books in which I ended up picking up over a dozen of these books including several of these Crackajack Funnies along with some random Four Color issues of Flash Gordon, Don Winslow, King of the Royal Mounted, and the likes.  Super nice dealer from Michigan who had just recently retired by then and was helping a former long time customer of his dispose of some of his books.  Gave me a great deal at a big big discount off the top of guide prices due to the number of books that I was ordering.  

Not expecting much in terms of grade like your typical CBG ads, I was astounded when I received the books in the mail since they looked minty fresh with strong colors like they had just come off the printing press.  Called the dealer back right away and asked him if he had other copies such as Crackajack Funnies 9 since I knew this was the first appearance of Red Ryder and he responded that he would be receiving more books from this customer and would be sure to give me a call once he got them because he was quite sure that there were more Crackajack's in the collection.  Fast forward about another 6 months or so and I see another ad in the CBG with the Poughkeepsie File copy of Crackajack Funnies 9 in there along with a whole bunch of other file copy issues.  Called the dealer right away who informed me that all of the books were already sold and that he had wanted to call me, but had apparently misplaced my phone number and contact information.    

Fast forward several more years to when CGC first opened their doors and I decided to send in about a dozen of my books, including a couple of these File Copy books, to test this so-called new grading system in advance of the big Greg Manning Auction that was scheduled to take place later that year in 2000.  Was actually quite happy when all of them came back in the grade range of CGC 9.2 to CGC 9.6, with both of the file copies coming in at CGC 9.6 even though the Crackajack that I had sent in was not the best of the bunch from a condition point of view.  As a result, I am not too surprised that the Crackajack Funnies 9 posted above would manage to get a CGC 9.8 grade in the end.  

My own takeaway is that it shows how much their undisclosed grading standards have changed over time.  My bet is that when I got my books graded way back in 2000, they were graded based upon the traditional grading standards that had historically been in place prior to CGC and before Heritage entered onto the scene in 2002.  Sadly, over the years I believe there have been some subtle but significant changes made to their undisclosed grading standards to facilitate the CPR game which is now clearly in full swing.  My bet is that if I send in these books for grading today, they would get no more than a CGC 8.5 or CGC 9.0 because although they look minty fresh and near perfect like some of the few Church books which I have, if you hold them up and bend them at a certain angle to the light, you can see a few barely imperceptible tiny NCB tick marks on the spines of most of them.  

I hate it when they take these barely visible defects and seemingly move them to the top of their grading hit parade while letting more obvious and fugly defects go without much of a drop in grade.  Makes total and complete sense business wise though, since these are clearly low hanging additional revenue generating defects and since CCG is a business after all, and whatever helps CCS and CGC (and HA through their overlapping ownership) will certainly help both their own corporate top and bottom lines.  I guess it also doesn't hurt that you now have the former "King of Pressing" in place as your head grader.   

Bottom-line though, regardless of whether it's in a CGC 9.0 holder, a CGC 9.6 holder, or a CGC 9.8 holder, all I know is that particular File Copy of Crackajack Funnies 9 should actually be locked away raw and ungraded in my personal collection right next to my other file copies. 

That was a great story. I'm glad you shared that. One thing, so the Crackajack 9 now 9.8 would have been your book had the man not lost your phone number? 

And let me get this straight - you think CGC is tougher on grading now than when they first began? Personally I can't figure it out. Some say they were stricter at the beginning, some say now, and I've heard people say that they have gone through strict and not so strict phases over the past 20 years.  And I think your right, the book should probably never have been a 9.0. Not sure if its worthy of 9.8 but from what I can see now its better than a 9.0.

I guess you cant really see everything in a scan which  is a good argument  for the usefulness of the cvs and qes stickers.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Professor Chaos

[lou_fine]

58 minutes ago, Professor Chaos said:

And let me get this straight - you think CGC is tougher on grading now than when they first began?

Most assurdly not, just that their undisclosed grading standards have definitely changed over time.  

Like all changes, some for the better and some for the worse, and I guess something to be expected when you have major changes to your grading teams over time, especially since grading is still sometimes more of an art than an actual science.  It's rather unfortunate that they have avoided disclosing their grading standards on the rather flimsy excuse of proprietary knowledge because it certainly gives them a big leeway when you see inconsistencies in their grading over time. 

From my point of view, definitely not good when their grading standards were "fine tuned" or "evolved" over time to target defects which would encourage submittors to use some of their additional services or to resubmit their books for regrading, all for additional fees of course.  I remember back in the day before CGC, that most collectors would pay much more attention to defects like misaligned spines on books that could be seen from across the convention floor, as opposed to tiny (but easily fixable for a fee of course  ) defects in some cases that can only be seen by holding a book at a certain angle to the light.  And yet here we are today, at the point where many submittors will not even think to get a book graded unless it has been shall we say "properly prepped" or at the very least pre-screened prior to being graded.    

Being a long-time collector and more of a purist at heart, I wish we could just simply send a book straight in for grading instead of having to play this whole game.  But then again, I guess it means more money going into everybody's pockets as long as everybody's aware of the rules and plays accordingly, because if you don't, there's most likely some punishment grading heading your way.    

And yes, a book cannot be accurately graded based upon just a scan, as you most definitely need to have it in hand in order to have any chance of grading it properly.  

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

Was scanning through an email from CL earlier this evening and noticed a book which I have never been able to figure out the valuation on:  

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FSEARCH.ASP%3FFocusedOnly%3D1%26where%3Dauctions%26title%3Dadventure%2Bcomics%26ItemType%3DCB%26CGC%3DYES%26CBCS%3DYES%23Item_1460553&id=1460553&itemType=0

This book reminds me of the first time I was in New York City in the mid-90's and was in the Metro offices when I mentioned to Fishler that I couldn't understand why collectors would pay so much for this book here.  Fishler said it was no surprise to him since he was the one that was personally responsible for making it such a high dollar value book.  I guess he must have found enough dog lovers willing to dig extra deep into their pockets for this doggy doo doo of a book that Overstreet ended up breaking it out and jacking it way up above all of its other surrounding issues.    

Anyways, took a quick look at it and noticed that it's already way over guide at $9,100 but probably still got quite a bit more to go since Heritage had sold a similar graded copy for $16,800 less than a year ago in the Spring of 2020.  Took a closer look and I gues it must be the CONSIGNOR themselves who must be wishing that this book is going to go higher since it's the very exact same copy that sold for $16,800.  Simply find it amazing and rather crazy that flippers think they can make fast money on a comic book which they have just finished paying an astronomical record price for.  I guess we'll just have to wait   and see, but I am starting to lean this way.     

Actually, if I was bidding I would much rather go for one of those earlier GA Adventure's which are not only higher in grade, but also harder to find, and still well under condition guide at a tiny fraction of the price of this book here which tends to show up relatively often.  

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by lou_fine

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

3 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Was scanning through an email from CL earlier this evening and noticed a book which I have never been able to figure out the valuation on:  

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FSEARCH.ASP%3FFocusedOnly%3D1%26where%3Dauctions%26title%3Dadventure%2Bcomics%26ItemType%3DCB%26CGC%3DYES%26CBCS%3DYES%23Item_1460553&id=1460553&itemType=0

This book reminds me of the first time I was in New York City in the mid-90's and was in the Metro offices when I mentioned to Fishler that I couldn't understand why collectors would pay so much for this book here.  Fishler said it was no surprise to him since he was the one that was personally responsible for making it such a high dollar value book.  I guess he must have found enough dog lovers willing to dig extra deep into their pockets for this doggy doo doo of a book that Overstreet ended up breaking it out and jacking it way up above all of its other surrounding issues.    

Anyways, took a quick look at it and noticed that it's already way over guide at $9,100 but probably still got quite a bit more to go since Heritage had sold a similar graded copy for $16,800 less than a year ago in the Spring of 2020.  Took a closer look and I gues it must be the CONSIGNOR themselves who must be wishing that this book is going to go higher since it's the very exact same copy that sold for $16,800.  Simply find it amazing and rather crazy that flippers think they can make fast money on a comic book which they have just finished paying an astronomical record price for.  I guess we'll just have to wait   and see, but I am starting to lean this way.     

Actually, if I was bidding I would much rather go for one of those earlier GA Adventure's which are not only higher in grade, but also harder to find, and still well under condition guide at a tiny fraction of the price of this book here which tends to show up relatively often.  

 

I remember too when this book broke out. It confounded me then and it confounds me now. (It’s only Krypto, for goodness sake!)

The guy who paid the crazy money initially was supposedly Bill Mumy of “Lost In Space” and “Twilight Zone” fame

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Mumy

Edited February 23, 2021 by GreatCaesarsGhost

[buttock]

8 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Most assurdly not, just that their undisclosed grading standards have definitely changed over time.  

Like all changes, some for the better and some for the worse, and I guess something to be expected when you have major changes to your grading teams over time, especially since grading is still sometimes more of an art than an actual science.  It's rather unfortunate that they have avoided disclosing their grading standards on the rather flimsy excuse of proprietary knowledge because it certainly gives them a big leeway when you see inconsistencies in their grading over time. 

From my point of view, definitely not good when their grading standards were "fine tuned" or "evolved" over time to target defects which would encourage submittors to use some of their additional services or to resubmit their books for regrading, all for additional fees of course.  I remember back in the day before CGC, that most collectors would pay much more attention to defects like misaligned spines on books that could be seen from across the convention floor, as opposed to tiny (but easily fixable for a fee of course  ) defects in some cases that can only be seen by holding a book at a certain angle to the light.  And yet here we are today, at the point where many submittors will not even think to get a book graded unless it has been shall we say "properly prepped" or at the very least pre-screened prior to being graded.    

Being a long-time collector and more of a purist at heart, I wish we could just simply send a book straight in for grading instead of having to play this whole game.  But then again, I guess it means more money going into everybody's pockets as long as everybody's aware of the rules and plays accordingly, because if you don't, there's most likely some punishment grading heading your way.    

And yes, a book cannot be accurately graded based upon just a scan, as you most definitely need to have it in hand in order to have any chance of grading it properly.  

 

It is very frustrating that "improvable" defects, which should be taken LESS seriously in grading are now given MORE weight simply to encourage people to utilize CCS.  The very fact that they're improvable implies that they should factor less in the grade.  If you look at books in the first gen holders it appears that this was the tact that CGC took early on.  It's pretty easy to find NCB wear on these books, but it's not factored in nearly as heavily.  I would personally be fine with this wear being ignored instead of encouraged to monkey with the books and risk damage.  

[batman_fan]

1 hour ago, buttock said:

It is very frustrating that "improvable" defects, which should be taken LESS seriously in grading are now given MORE weight simply to encourage people to utilize CCS.  The very fact that they're improvable implies that they should factor less in the grade.  If you look at books in the first gen holders it appears that this was the tact that CGC took early on.  It's pretty easy to find NCB wear on these books, but it's not factored in nearly as heavily.  I would personally be fine with this wear being ignored instead of encouraged to monkey with the books and risk damage.  

My experience with CCS (although fully acknowledged as limited) is that they have a tendency to damage staples (fully popped in some cases).  Not sure if others experience the same tendency or not. 

[buttock]

13 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

My experience with CCS (although fully acknowledged as limited) is that they have a tendency to damage staples (fully popped in some cases).  Not sure if others experience the same tendency or not. 

Yup.  Not uncommonly either.  

[lou_fine]

3 hours ago, buttock said:

4 hours ago, batman_fan said:

My experience with CCS (although fully acknowledged as limited) is that they have a tendency to damage staples (fully popped in some cases).  Not sure if others experience the same tendency or not. 

Yup.  Not uncommonly either.  

Yes, didn't most of these pressing related issues started to occur after Matt left the CCS side of the business and moved over to the CGC grading side of the business?   Not sure if there's any truth to the rumours that CGC usually gave a soft pass to most of these tell tale "pressing errors" at the time because they knew where the books were coming from as they didn't want it to hurt their cprporate business model.     

It apparently became pretty evident that pressing is not as easy as some would tend to believe and the newbies just didn't have the same skills at it as Matt did.  Either that or they simply got too busy with all of the pressing jobs they receive once Matt got into CGC as their head grader and seemingly made NCB creases the most egregious defect on a comic book possible and disproportionately bludgeoned them accordingly with his heaviest hammer when it came to grading.   

[lou_fine]

Received another email from CL and just wondering if we are now heading all the way back to the old heady days of a few years ago when it came to Spidey and AF 15:  

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FSEARCH.ASP%3FFocusedOnly%3D1%26where%3Dauctions%26title%3Damazing%2Bfantasy%2B15%26GO%3DGO%26ItemType%3DCB%23Item_1457476&id=1457476&itemType=0

Already at a whopping $470K with still another 4+ hours to go, although I guess the fact that it is a Curator pedigree copy helps to give it a bump.  

Just reminds me of a couple of years ago when CC was able to sell a CGC 9.0 graded copy for something like $395K and then a CGC 9.2 graded copy for $598K, along with some apprent record setting sales right here on CL that I am too lazy to look up right now.    

[bpc3qh]

There hasn't been a bid on the AF15 in ten days; I wonder if there will be a flurry at the end, or if this is the final number?

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, bpc3qh said:

There hasn't been a bid on the AF15 in ten days; I wonder if there will be a flurry at the end, or if this is the final number?

Well, it looks like you got your answer as there were 4 bids that came in near the end, with 3 of them in the last minute that brought the final price up to $566K. 

Not sure if that is a record for a CGC 9.0 graded copy or not, but either way, that would certainly appear to be a rather strong price from my point of view.  

[bpc3qh]

17 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Well, it looks like you got your answer as there were 4 bids that came in near the end, with 3 of them in the last minute that brought the final price up to $566K. 

Not sure if that is a record for a CGC 9.0 graded copy or not, but either way, that would certainly appear to be a rather strong price from my point of view.  

I'd call that a strong price, for sure. And I suppose I should've assumed that there would be additional bids at the end, especially for a book like that.