High end book fractional ownership 1 1

[valiantman]

Just now, Krismusic said:

2 hours ago, BlowUpTheMoon said:

You made me google "vichyssoise".

what is it I was just about to google it as well..

I learned the term when I watched Jim Carrey as The Mask in 1994.  You don't need Google, you just need to watch more comic book movies. 

 vichyssoise at 0:28 

[Krismusic]

7 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Does anyone wanna go-in 50/50 on my collection?

Caveat: The collection will remain at my home. You can handle and view any co-owned property at my permission.

who wants Batman Damned shares... 

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, Krismusic said:

who wants Batman Damned shares... 

I remember when #1 in Gem Mint sold for $8k on eBay.

Probably a drek spec buy. That guy lost 90% of that 'investment' by all accounts of the market today.

[Krismusic]

3 minutes ago, valiantman said:

I learned the term when I watched Jim Carrey as The Mask in 1994.  You don't need Google, you just need to watch more comic book movies. 

 vichyssoise at 0:28 

i loved that movie back then... the second mask movie sucked with that Jamie kennedy guy.

[Krismusic]

1 minute ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

I remember when #1 in Gem Mint sold for $8k on eBay.

Probably a drek spec buy. That guy lost 90% of that 'investment' by all accounts of the market today.

ouch..

[revat]

I think it can be done actually quite easily, if you actually treat it like a million dollar partnership.  Which almost certainly means actually filing a partnership agreement (full of terms), getting a business license, getting lawyers, etc.  At which point perhaps it becomes not worth it probably.  But maybe....

Otherwise the comic is too easily moved or lost, and there's no way to get a legal 'title' to it the way you could a car or a building or land. 

HOWEVER, I do think there's some room for a short-term investment/improvement/flip opportunity for someone like Joeypost (or some other pressing/cpr/resto expert). 

1.  He identifies a book that will benefit from a press/cpr/conservation/resto.

2.  He allows and investor to front some or all of the money for the book. 

3.  Joey purchases the book, does the work or press/resto/cpr, has it graded.

4.  Then the book is sold, and profits are shared.  It can be a set percentage of profit, or a set return on investment, or whatever is negotiated.

5.  This is essentially like short term loans for comic improve/flip (like flipping houses that you fix up), with the comic as collateral.

Of course you'd have to trust the person, both their eye for investment, their 'improvement' skills, and their honesty (although of course full records should be kept and shared the whole way).

In the event that this endeavor was successful on an individual basis, THEN they could put together a whole investment group (similar to a real estate investment group that specializes in house construction/flip).

 

 

[Action252Kid]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this one yet, but this is already being done on Rally Rd, isn't it?  Or I think they're about to have a few comics go live on there.

It sounds dumb, but they had a Honus Wagner card on there a few weeks back and I bought "10 shares" of it (each share is worth 1/10,000th of the card) for $52 each.  So they were valuing the card at $520,000.  I think they lay out the rules for how they'd actually sell the underlying asset, but I think they idea is more so that you are just trading shares back & forth, more like a stock.

It's kind of a cool idea.  They seem to mostly have sports items (cards, game worn jerseys, etc.), but I've seen cars, watches, and there's a ASM #1 CGC 6.5 (valuing it at $22k) coming up for trading soon.  And a Batman #3 CGC 9.4 (valuing at $78k) coming up soon.

[WolverineX]

So if You own 51% of the shares. Can you take control? Just like DMG did with Valiant?

[LordRahl]

53 minutes ago, revat said:

I think it can be done actually quite easily, if you actually treat it like a million dollar partnership.  Which almost certainly means actually filing a partnership agreement (full of terms), getting a business license, getting lawyers, etc.  At which point perhaps it becomes not worth it probably.  But maybe....

Otherwise the comic is too easily moved or lost, and there's no way to get a legal 'title' to it the way you could a car or a building or land. 

HOWEVER, I do think there's some room for a short-term investment/improvement/flip opportunity for someone like Joeypost (or some other pressing/cpr/resto expert). 

1.  He identifies a book that will benefit from a press/cpr/conservation/resto.

2.  He allows and investor to front some or all of the money for the book. 

3.  Joey purchases the book, does the work or press/resto/cpr, has it graded.

4.  Then the book is sold, and profits are shared.  It can be a set percentage of profit, or a set return on investment, or whatever is negotiated.

5.  This is essentially like short term loans for comic improve/flip (like flipping houses that you fix up), with the comic as collateral.

Of course you'd have to trust the person, both their eye for investment, their 'improvement' skills, and their honesty (although of course full records should be kept and shared the whole way).

In the event that this endeavor was successful on an individual basis, THEN they could put together a whole investment group (similar to a real estate investment group that specializes in house construction/flip).

 

 

What you're talking about already happens and yes it works. What everyone else is talking about is completely different and, at least in my opinion, will never work. 

[fishpaul]

So when you think about all the possibilities, it can really be interesting. My thought was if you put together a legitimate LLC, or LLP. Have a managing partner/curator who oversees the purchase, and maintains the collectibles, comics, signed guitars, baseball cards, etc.... and the collectibles are held in a small office suite, with high end security. Any of the limited partners can make an appointment during certain hours to visit and view the collection behind  glass cased displays. The office suite would have high end cameras, and security. Also the temperature and humidity would always be controlled for optimum conditions. The partners would be able to divest at certain times, similar to a hedge fund. 

[Deadpoolica]

[musicmeta]

There would have be an ironclad contract setup that states, where the book is held and how long to hold it before trying to selling it and for the lowest agreeable price
.  i.e.  sell the book on a <insert date to sell here>  with all buyers in agreement at which time, "IF" all parties want to extend the 
selling date make amendments to the contract before that date happens.  I can only seeing this "might" work if this is done.  
You bought it as group, You listed it for sell as a group on a stated datetime  like July 10, 2022 at noon.  I'm probably missing a few variables here but this should be the gist of it.

[LordRahl]

23 minutes ago, fishpaul said:

So when you think about all the possibilities, it can really be interesting. My thought was if you put together a legitimate LLC, or LLP. Have a managing partner/curator who oversees the purchase, and maintains the collectibles, comics, signed guitars, baseball cards, etc.... and the collectibles are held in a small office suite, with high end security. Any of the limited partners can make an appointment during certain hours to visit and view the collection behind  glass cased displays. The office suite would have high end cameras, and security. Also the temperature and humidity would always be controlled for optimum conditions. The partners would be able to divest at certain times, similar to a hedge fund. 

How would you handle this situation? 10 guys bought into a Tec 27 in 6.5 based on the last price that a 6.5 sold for, let's say $500K for simple math (I know that's not what it would go for). A year later, a new 6.5 comes to market and it looks extremely nice for the grade, possible upgrade potential. It sells for $1M. 4 of the 10 guys now want to get out, how do they get paid out and by whom and at what rate? 

[jjonahjameson11]

1 hour ago, Krismusic said:

oh man I was looking for that clip we need part 6 the ending where it lands on the wet dirty ground and lightning hits it..  

wow that was season 2 only damn... I thought it was much later.

In this clip, BART is waaaaaay too reminiscent of  Bogart as Fred C. Dobbs in ‘Treasure of the Sierra Madre’

[theCapraAegagrus]

4 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

How would you handle this situation? 10 guys bought into a Tec 27 in 6.5 based on the last price that a 6.5 sold for, let's say $500K for simple math (I know that's not what it would go for). A year later, a new 6.5 comes to market and it looks extremely nice for the grade, possible upgrade potential. It sells for $1M. 4 of the 10 guys now want to get out, how do they get paid out and by whom and at what rate? 

They rip it into 10 pieces, duh.

[revat]

9 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

35 minutes ago, fishpaul said:

So when you think about all the possibilities, it can really be interesting. My thought was if you put together a legitimate LLC, or LLP. Have a managing partner/curator who oversees the purchase, and maintains the collectibles, comics, signed guitars, baseball cards, etc.... and the collectibles are held in a small office suite, with high end security. Any of the limited partners can make an appointment during certain hours to visit and view the collection behind  glass cased displays. The office suite would have high end cameras, and security. Also the temperature and humidity would always be controlled for optimum conditions. The partners would be able to divest at certain times, similar to a hedge fund. 

How would you handle this situation? 10 guys bought into a Tec 27 in 6.5 based on the last price that a 6.5 sold for, let's say $500K for simple math (I know that's not what it would go for). A year later, a new 6.5 comes to market and it looks extremely nice for the grade, possible upgrade potential. It sells for $1M. 4 of the 10 guys now want to get out, how do they get paid out and by whom and at what rate? 

"getting out" would simply involve whatever terms are agreed upon before hand.  In the event that you can 'sell' your stake, you just get whatever money you can and transfer your % ownership to the new buyer. 

There might be some mechanism to 'trigger' a sale.  Maybe every month there's an email sent to all the owners, and when the majority (or 70% or whatever %) want to sell, its sent to Heritage in the next month.

As people have stated, the key is considering for contingencies in the legal documentation.  But at some point, its a lot of trouble and cost for some fairly uncertain profit in a totally unregulated industry (compared to say real estate or stocks), with extremely liquid and somewhat interchangeable inventory. 

I think this is the kind of thing you go in with your brother or best friend, and even then with heavy reservations.

 

Too many moving parts to make this profitable, unless you're just doing it with a few family or close friends.

 

[William-James88]

4 hours ago, BlowUpTheMoon said:

You made me google "vichyssoise".

"It's supposed to be cold."

 

Jokes aside, this sounds like a terrible idea. But hey, if anyone's game, I would gladly pitch in 1000$ with you all for a Detective 27 and keep it in my house. You can come visit anytime to look at it.

[valiantman]

Forget comics for a minute...

Imagine you're at a museum and you see an amazing piece of art on the wall.  The wealthy owner's estate has loaned the painting to the museum and has put 49% of the ownership in the painting onto the "digital art market".  You can buy (or check your) shares right from your phone while you're standing in the museum or after you get home that night, whenever.  You buy a lithograph of the painting in the gift shop on the way out, show the clerk your ownership on the phone and the clerk puts a stamp on the edge of your lithograph (certified owner).  You hang the lithograph at home and know you're also part owner in the real thing.

Now, considering the value of the bitcoin market is currently $10.2 $186 billion, which is ownership in literally a few digital ones and zeroes somewhere... which scenario sounds reasonable and which one is the bitcoin market already worth ten billion?

Edited February 13, 2020 by valiantman
updated: Bitcoin is actually a $186 billion idea

[valiantman]

2 hours ago, Action252Kid said:

Not sure if anyone mentioned this one yet, but this is already being done on Rally Rd, isn't it?  Or I think they're about to have a few comics go live on there.

It sounds dumb, but they had a Honus Wagner card on there a few weeks back and I bought "10 shares" of it (each share is worth 1/10,000th of the card) for $52 each.  So they were valuing the card at $520,000.  I think they lay out the rules for how they'd actually sell the underlying asset, but I think they idea is more so that you are just trading shares back & forth, more like a stock.

It's kind of a cool idea.  They seem to mostly have sports items (cards, game worn jerseys, etc.), but I've seen cars, watches, and there's a ASM #1 CGC 6.5 (valuing it at $22k) coming up for trading soon.  And a Batman #3 CGC 9.4 (valuing at $78k) coming up soon.

That's definitely the kind of thing being discussed.  

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/02/28/investing-shares-of-collector-cars-rally-road

It doesn't look like Rally Rd has a market for shares to be bought and sold yet, so they have offerings of ownership shares, then those owners are set.

[Krismusic]

16 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Forget comics for a minute...

Imagine you're at a museum and you see an amazing piece of art on the wall.  The wealthy owner's estate has loaned the painting to the museum and has put 49% of the ownership in the painting onto the "digital art market".  You can buy (or check your) shares right from your phone while you're standing in the museum or after you get home that night, whenever.  You buy a lithograph of the painting in the gift shop on the way out, show the clerk your ownership on the phone and the clerk puts a stamp on the edge of your lithograph (certified owner).  You hang the lithograph at home and know you're also part owner in the real thing.

Now, considering the value of the bitcoin market is currently $10.2 billion, which is ownership in literally a few digital ones and zeroes somewhere... which scenario sounds reasonable and which one is the bitcoin market already worth ten billion?

uh oh bit coin analogies....

Bit coin worth is largely tied to illegal activity as well and through illegal venture capitalist (mafia, gangs, high crime) organizations... it was a decentralized currency that is also being used to transfer funds and host/house illegal activity.. Not quite the same thing here if you have a security exchange commission involved with the shares to property. 

I went back and read what HipComic Investments plan was and I am starting to see if being viable to a certain degree so long as what they say is truthful. 

They say it will be a share of the comic kind of that would be regulated through the SEC and we become shareholders for the asset that HipComic maintains for us... they say they will open a marketplace where you can trade the shares/stock and if the property is sold because it has gained in value and demand the profits will be distributed to the shareholders. otherwise you could make a profit off of buying and sell the shares and a profit off kind of like a dividend on the sale of the book. Which then I believe they will bring another book into the available pool. If they can limit the potential for corruption and prevent watering down of the shares I think it could be viable and I hope with the SEC regulating it they wouldn't be able to water down the shares to increase their own gains over shareholders. Not that this "doesn't" happen in real life...