• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Steve Ditko actually wrote about Spider-man... A LOT
5 5

583 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Mr Sneeze said:

What I always find amazing in the reading of silver age marvel is just how strong Spider-Man and Dr Strange are from right out of the gate. Without meaning any disrespect to Mr Lee, I would give top marks for the quality and strong start of those titles to Steve Ditko. All of the other titles take time to find their respective footings and some start horribly (Thor in particular) but not the Ditko titles. Kirby's cosmic nirvana is around the corner to be sure but it takes a few years to get there. 2c

You knew who Peter was, and what made him tick, by issue...8? Maybe? 

The X-Men, by contrast, remained functionally hollow avatars without personalities for years. It wasn't until Claremont and Byrne got ahold of them that they started acting and sounding like real human beings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Mr Sneeze said:

What I always find amazing in the reading of silver age marvel is just how strong Spider-Man and Dr Strange are from right out of the gate. Without meaning any disrespect to Mr Lee, I would give top marks for the quality and strong start of those titles to Steve Ditko. All of the other titles take time to find their respective footings and some start horribly (Thor in particular) but not the Ditko titles. Kirby's cosmic nirvana is around the corner to be sure but it takes a few years to get there. 2c

That's an interesting observation I hadn't really thought about. 

One of the criticisms of Kirby's 4th World is that it wasn't as cohesive as his Marvel work - but that's because it didn't have the time to come together. Imagine if the Fantastic Four or Thor had been cancelled after 11 issues!

But you're right... Ditko seemed to know exactly where he was going right from the start...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's interesting to note in Ditko's first part of the essay, how Stan talked down the idea of Ditko's writing/project that wasn't Stan's - he did the same thing with Wally Wood on Daredevil. Wood felt he was doing the actual writing and asked to dialogue as well and get credit (and paid) for it.

On the Splash page Stan writes: "Wally Wood has always wanted to try his hand at writing a story as well as drawing it, and big-hearted Stan (who wanted a rest anyway) said okay! So, what follows next is anybody's guess! You may like it or not, but, you can be sure of this... it's gonna be different!"

First of all it ISN'T the first time Wood has written his own material - he wrote of few of his own stories at EC. Here, it's a pretty standard Superhero story, but Stan acts as if he's just humoring the artist in the final blurb at the end: "Now that Wally got the writing out of his system, he left it for poor Stan to finish next issue! Can our Leader do it? That's the Real Mystery! But while you're waiting, see if you can find the clue we planted showing who the organizer is! It'll all come out in the wash next issue when Stan wraps it up!" 

To a 13 year old reading this with no context, it seems all in good fun - everyone is having a blast making comics. But behind the scenes, Wood would later say:

Wood: I enjoyed working with Stan [Lee] on Daredevil but for one thing. I had to make up the whole story. He was being paid for writing, and I was being paid for drawing, but he didn't have any ideas. I'd go in for a plotting session, and we'd just stare at each other until I came up with a storyline. I felt like I was writing the book but not being paid for writing.

Evanier: You did write one issue, as I recall--

Wood: One yes [Daredevil #10]. I persuaded him to let me write one by myself since I was doing 99% of the writing already. I wrote it, handed it in, and he said it was hopeless. He said he'd have to rewrite it all and write the next issue himself. Well, I said I couldn't contribute to the storyline unless I got paid something for writing, and Stan said he'd look into it, but after that he only had inking for me. Bob Powell was suddenly pencilling Daredevil.[Later on in the interview] ... I saw [Daredevil #10] when it came out, and Stan had changed five words---less than an editor usually changes. I think that was the last straw.

Edited by Chuck Gower
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kirby's passiveness led to him getting less credit than he deserved on the creation and writing of the stories. Ditko and Wood fought Stan on it. Wood of course only lasted a few issues - Daredevil didn't exactly light the world on fire at the start, so Stan could afford to push Wood out, but Ditko was on Marvel's best selling book. And it bothered Stan as he showed in, what is probably my favorite Stan Lee quote of all time, from a 1966 New York Herald Tribune article:

"I don't plot Spider-man anymore. Steve Ditko, the artist, has been doing the stories. I guess I'll leave him alone until sales start to slip. Since Spidey got so popular, Ditko thinks he's the genius of the world. We were arguing so much over plot lines I told him to start making up his own stories. He won't let anybody else  ink his drawings, either. He just drops off his finished pages with notes at the margins and I fill in the dialogue. I never know what he'll come up with next, but it's interesting to work that way."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's interesting how years later Stan softened all of this in a April 1975 Convention Interview:

"Steve was a very mysterious character. When he first started he was the easiest character we ever had to work with. I used to think that if everybody was as easy to work with as Steve, it would be great. I would call him in the middle of the night with an emergency ten page -script and Steve would bring it in the very next day without a complaint. He was just beautiful.  But, little, by little, he became tougher and tougher to work with. After a while  he’d say to me, “Gee, Stan, I don’t like those plots you are writing for Spider-Man.” So I’d say okay, because I couldn’t have cared less, Steve was so good at drawing stuff, I said, “Use your own plot, I'll put the dialogue in." So he'd do his own, and I'd switch them around, and I'd put the dialogue in and make them conform to what I wanted. Then he'd say "I don't like the sound—effects you're putting in:" So I told him to use his own, I didn't mind. I'd bend over backwards to accommodate him, because he was so good and the strip was so successful. But it was like Chamberlain giving in to Hitler, the more I appeased him, the harder he got to work with. Finally, it reached the point where he didn't even come up to the office with his artwork —he'd just mail it in. Then one day he said he was leaving. You now know as much about it as I do. What bothered him, I don't know. Why he's wasting his time at this other company doing work no on pays any attention to, I don't know. He's another guy I'd take back in a minute, but I have a feeling he'd be impossible to work with."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

When you really understand what was going on, the passive/aggressive dismissive attitude that Stan had REALLY shines out here. It's so condescending, and jives perfectly with what Ditko is saying.

Stan essentially says "well, this will probably be an unreadable piece of garbage, but I needed to humor the artist, so I, in my gracious benevolence, will risk a dumpster fire to get him to shut up." He was priming the readers to have low expectations.

It's completely disingenuous.

...........as much as I admire Ditko's work for Marvel in the 1960's, it's plainly evident to me that he was unwilling to compromise with anyone on his artistic vision throughout his career.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

An artist believes the best thing he can do for his fans is create more art. He did that until the day he died. 

Many years ago in a Wizard I read an interview he gave. The interviewer couldn't believe that Ditko was using original
unused Spider-man art as backing for his dart board. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, mrc said:

...........as much as I admire Ditko's work for Marvel in the 1960's, it's plainly evident to me that he was unwilling to compromise with anyone on his artistic vision throughout his career.

That’s just not true. He clearly wrote about his working relationship with Stan Lee. Stan framed it as ‘Ditko was difficult.”

Ditko framed it as “why would I take a lesser title and a lesser pay for more work?”

Who would?

Ditko Has a great essay on this I’ll scan next - it shows the problem with the Marvel method and how ‘writer’ is somewhat a problematic term for the person who does a synopsis. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before I go any further: Anyone who is interested in buying Steve Ditko's independently published work, here's a link for information on how to. Many exceptional comic book stores regularly carry these, but in case you can't find them there, there's always direct. http://ditko.blogspot.com/p/ditko-book-in-print.html

All of these essays are from this book:

Ditko000.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chuck..... PLEASE FIX YOUR BLURRY HORRIBLE SIG LINE !!  I HATE IT !!  :sumo:   lol  :hi:

Edited by Senormac
cuz alphabet happened in 1st grade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's an excellent point in regards to the 'Marvel Method'. If someone gives you a synopsis of 'Cujo' by Stephen King and you read it... Would it fill you with terror? Would its creative twists be evident? Would the wording of it make the hairs stand up on your arms?

Most likely not, as the Wikipedia entry certainly doesn't. And that's pretty much what a synopsis is. The CREATION of how the story is told... the pacing, the mood, how the characters interact... THIS is all the process of actually WRITING. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
5 5