Steve Ditko actually wrote about Spider-man... A LOT 5 5

[Prince Namor]

Most of those are from Dave Kraft's COMIC INTERVIEW, 

[Ken Aldred]

5 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

If I may, I'd also like to give some credit to Ditko's wonderful Warren magazine contributions. I think it's some of his best work, often superior to anything he did for Marvel or Charlton, IMO. And from what I've read about his Warren days, Ditko was always easy to work with and never missed a deadline

Yup. Somehow I forgot to mention those.  Brilliant artwork.

[jsilverjanet]

Stan Lee comes across as Michael Scott but not as funny

Edited February 18, 2020 by jsilverjanet

[Bronty]

1 hour ago, jsilverjanet said:

I think the difference is that Stan thought he could succeed in Hollywood based on his success in comics. He probably thought that the industry would take his ideas based on his success at Marvel. I don't think he's trying to prove anything (I could be mistaken) but only illustrate that his success was tied to both these creators. 

I think that's fair, and I think the music analogy someone else gave was apt also.   So many great band members have put out so many terrible solo projects

[500Club]

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

But I'm sure you can understand that a critical analysis of Stan is going to look like "the complete tarring and feathering of Stan", because Stan did and said some really, really scummy things.

I mean, the guy compared Ditko to Hitler. Stan Godwin'd his own interview.

There's a ton, ton bunch of hero worship where Stan is concerned, and that's understandable, but a measured analysis reveals a guy whose #1 fan was himself, and who always looked out for himself over and above everyone else. And that's a bit of a shame. That that tireless self-promotion brought a LOT of people along with him is something to be celebrated, for sure! But it has its ugly underside, and now that their lives are complete, it's fair to do an objective analysis of them.

I’m good with that, but an accurate objective analysis tends to be more balanced than some of these threads end up. 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by 500Club

[Prince Namor]

Stan Lee on what happened had an agenda - he wanted fame, he wanted credit. 
 

Jack Kirby’s on what happened had an agenda - he felt he wasn’t given his due. He felt his name should be on those characters as creator. 
 

Steve Ditko didn’t want fame, or money or his name on the movie - wasn’t interested in any of that. Could’ve made a fortune off of it. Only was interested in setting the record straight as far as how he saw it. 
 

Yeah, personally I find his outlook most credible. He wasn’t out to gain anything from it. 

[Bird]

36 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Steve Ditko didn’t want fame, or money or his name on the movie - wasn’t interested in any of that. Could’ve made a fortune off of it. Only was interested in setting the record straight as far as how he saw it. 
 

Yeah, personally I find his outlook most credible. He wasn’t out to gain anything from it. 

I don't see it QUITE that way but it all opinion obviously. None of us will ever know how much ego Steve Ditko had and to what extent it drove him. I think Steve Ditko wanted credit for his contributions and felt that Stan Lee denigrated Ditko's contributions while overplaying Lee's own. But had he gotten that credit and recognition from day one I think he definitely wanted the accolades and rewards that it would have entailed. He turned down all the Spider-Man money after leaving Marvel because accepting it, as I understand his motivations, would have been an acknowledgement that the money was theirs to rightfully give in the first place and Ditko would always contest that and their right to dispense the funds as they and they alone see fit. Setting the record straight was not just a matter of the public record but financial, moral and other considerations as well.

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Bird

[VintageComics]

39 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Steve Ditko didn’t want fame, or money or his name on the movie - wasn’t interested in any of that. Could’ve made a fortune off of it. Only was interested in setting the record straight as far as how he saw it. 
 

Yeah, personally I find his outlook most credible. He wasn’t out to gain anything from it. 

One thing I will say about Ditko is that his 'black and white' and uncompromising view of the world (there is no grey area) expects everything to be divided surgically, and sometimes that isn't possible.

I'd add that human recollection isn't reliable enough to do that, though. In fact, I remember a boardie (ex police officer and now a lawyer) saying that it's one of the least reliable forms of evidence...that's one reason why multiple witnesses are preferred.

 

[Prince Namor]

20 minutes ago, Bird said:

I don't see it QUITE that way but it all opinion obviously. None of us will ever know how much ego Steve Ditko had and to what extent it drove him. 

I think it's pretty easy to see that fame and money didn't drive him. He could've cashed in on his fame at any point in the last 20 years of his life. 

20 minutes ago, Bird said:

I think Steve Ditko wanted credit for his contributions and felt that Stan Lee denigrated Ditko's contributions while overplaying Lee's own.

That's what I'm saying. He wanted to set the record straight based upon how he felt it happened. But he's not driven by money or fame. If he was, he could've gone to any newspaper in New York and had a much greater audience for talking about this. He didn't. He put it in Robin Synder's little newsletter that hardly anyone has seen.

20 minutes ago, Bird said:

But had he gotten that credit and recognition from day one I think he definitely wanted the accolades and rewards that it would have entailed.

Which at the time wasn't much. He felt he should've been paid for drawing AND writing the book. Which by all accounts he did completely on his own by #25 and up. He wasn't - they wouldn't - so he left. Yeah, he wanted to be paid for the work he did. Who wouldn't?

But since the day he left, he didn't want to ever do Spider-man again. Even when he briefly came back to Marvel to do work, his one requirement was that he wouldn't do Spider-man or Dr. Strange. A

20 minutes ago, Bird said:

He turned down all the Spider-Man money after leaving Marvel because accepting it, as I understand his motivations, would have been an acknowledgement that the money was theirs to rightfully give in the first place and Ditko would always contest that and their right to dispense the funds as they and they alone see fit.

So he went to the trouble of bringing it up, just so that he could say, "But I don't want anything."?

Hmmm. Geez, even when somebody TRIES to have integrity, there's always going to be SOMEONE who says, "Aww, I don't believe it!"

20 minutes ago, Bird said:

Setting the record straight was not just a matter of the public record

But he didn't go on the public record. This stuff has been around since 2007, and it's the first time most of us have ever seen it. At any time he could've went on the public record and talked about it everywhere.

20 minutes ago, Bird said:

but financial, moral and other considerations as well.

There was no financial request. The moral consideration is him wanting the truth (as he sees it) in print. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

For comparison...probably the most celebrated Spiderman artist after Ditko is McFarlane.

McFarlane did a signing at CGC last month, and received 13,000 submissions, at a cost of $89 for signing and grading.

Had Ditko done something like that, he could have asked for...and gotten...$1,000 a book. And if that sounds preposterous, he was offered a LOT more.

Ditko could have made $5 million signing in a single signing, if he'd wanted to. And there were people who would have facilitated it so that he didn't have to do a thing except pick up a sharpie and sign away. And if you think that's an exaggeration...you have no idea.

Do you know how many millions of dollars Stan (well...Max) made signing in the last 10 years of his life...?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Ditko politely, but firmly, turned it all down. "If I sign for you, I have to sign for everyone."

[Prince Namor]

24 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

One thing I will say about Ditko is that his 'black and white' and uncompromising view of the world (there is no grey area) expects everything to be divided surgically, and sometimes that isn't possible.

Of course not. And there are times in his statements where he says he isn't sure where certain things came from. Other things he specifically remembers. To ME, and this is just my opinion, it sounds more LOGICAL and CREDIBLE than, "One day I just dreamed this all up" line of nonsense that Stan has said over the years.

24 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I'd add that human recollection isn't reliable enough to do that, though. In fact, I remember a boardie (ex police officer and now a lawyer) saying that it's one of the least reliable forms of evidence...that's one reason why multiple witnesses are preferred.

I know exactly what you mean. But some people have a better memory than others. I don't know if Ditko has a great memory or not, as I've read very little of what he's said up to this point. However, having read just about everyone else's recollection who was actually there at the time - I can't seem to find a hole in his story. 

[Prince Namor]

5 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

For comparison...probably the most celebrated Spiderman artist after Ditko is McFarlane.

Quote

McFarlane did a signing at CGC last month, and received 13,000 submissions, at a cost of $89 for signing and grading.

Had Ditko done something like that, he could have asked for...and gotten...$1,000 a book. And if that sounds preposterous, he was offered a LOT more.

Ditko could have made $5 million signing in a single signing, if he'd wanted to. And there were people who would have facilitated it so that he didn't have to do a thing except pick up a sharpie and sign away. And if you think that's an exaggeration...you have no idea.

Do you know how many millions of dollars Stan (well...Max) made signing in the last 10 years of his life...?

Yep, he could've did one signing and made more money than he made in his entire life. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Chuck Gower

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 minute ago, Chuck Gower said:

6 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

For comparison...probably the most celebrated Spiderman artist after Ditko is McFarlane.

Are you suggesting that McFarlane is MORE celebrated than Ditko...?

 

[Prince Namor]

Just now, RockMyAmadeus said:

Are you suggesting that McFarlane is MORE celebrated than Ditko...?

 

McFarlane certainly has the hearts of a more modern generation, but Romita was probably the face of Marvel and Spider-man for 20+ years... I think Todd definitely out sold Romita in SS special signings because of 'Todd' and not necessarily because of 'Spider-man'. He's a rock star though, no question.

[Randall Dowling]

20 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

McFarlane certainly has the hearts of a more modern generation, but Romita was probably the face of Marvel and Spider-man for 20+ years... I think Todd definitely out sold Romita in SS special signings because of 'Todd' and not necessarily because of 'Spider-man'. He's a rock star though, no question.

Amen.  For that matter, Gil Kane or even Ross Andru made more of an impact on the series in terms of storytelling.  McFarlane was a sensation, flash in the pan.  One hit wonder.

[Mr Sneeze]

The more I learned about Steve over the years, the more I've appreciated his art and his desire to remain out of the spotlight. I am not a fan of celebrity culture nor the attitude of fan entitlement. I mean if someone wants that interaction - fan or artist - that's great but obviously it's not for everyone and it's sad to see those who shun the public eye purposely misunderstood - and flat out insulted - at times for not seeing things yours/mine/or whomever's way. And I'm not talking about people reaching out and trying to have meaningful conversations etc. As far as I'm concerned the guy was brilliant!

Edited February 19, 2020 by Mr Sneeze

[Randall Dowling]

8 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

If I may, I'd also like to give some credit to Ditko's wonderful Warren magazine contributions. I think it's some of his best work, often superior to anything he did for Marvel or Charlton, IMO. And from what I've read about his Warren days, Ditko was always easy to work with and never missed a deadline. 

Can I get an Amen?  For those that haven't checked out his Warren work, it's incredibly stunning, lush, peak Ditko! 

[Prince Namor]

18 minutes ago, Mr Sneeze said:

The more I learned about Steve over the years, the more I've appreciated his art and his desire to remain out of the spotlight. I am not a fan of celebrity culture nor the attitude of fan entitlement. I mean if someone wants that interaction - fan or artist - that's great but obviously it's not for everyone and it's sad to see those who shun the public eye purposely misunderstood - and flat out insulted - at times for not seeing things yours/mine/or whomever's way. And I'm not talking about people reaching out and trying to have meaningful conversations etc. As far as I'm concerned the guy was brilliant!

Without a doubt. It's almost as if the fan mentality is, "He didn't want fame or money? How selfish!"

I would think it would be much more difficult to shun the spotlight - human nature is to bask in the glory of appreciation... Ditko put his money where his mouth was - he made a stand for what he believed in and stuck to it - never seemed to regret it - and never sold out. Another reason I tend to take his words more seriously.

[Prince Namor]

25 minutes ago, Randall Dowling said:

Amen.  For that matter, Gil Kane or even Ross Andru made more of an impact on the series in terms of storytelling.  McFarlane was a sensation, flash in the pan.  One hit wonder.

Well... I mean... regardless of what we think of his work, he had a huge impact on that book and it's one of the few creations from that period that actually is getting some movie interest (Venom). AND, he did have one of the best selling Spider-man issue of all time (his Spider-man #1).

I PERSONALLY would take a Ross Andru page over a McFarlane page (of equal value) any day of the week, but... I can still say he had a huge impact on the book in general.