Her Name Is Rio and She Dances On The Sand... 0

[Crimebuster]

On 2/26/2020 at 7:57 AM, exitmusicblue said:

The Rio I know... the good Senorita, courtesy of Matt Baker:

 

 

I love Matt Baker, but this cover is signed by Lily Renee. 

I also thought this was going to be a Senorita Rio thread!

[exitmusicblue]

4 hours ago, Crimebuster said:

 

I love Matt Baker, but this cover is signed by Lily Renee. 

I also thought this was going to be a Senorita Rio thread!

Woops, love Renee !  And correct, Baker art in the interiors.

[comiconxion]

Some info. on collecting Nagels for those that may not be as familiar with his process or prices.  For many works there could be more than one "original" to collect.  Here are the different types of originals that you'll typically find:

1) Prelims - Nagel would typically draw these at a smaller size on tissue/vellum paper.  For these, he could break the images down into his minimalistic line style.  Nagel's wife preserved many of these because she liked them.  These typically will sell in the $1-3k range.

2) Finished Paintings on Illustration Board - Typically for his published Playboy illustrations, he'd draw these on illustration board and paint them in Gouache (sometimes with colored pencil highlights).  Playboy illustrations will typically have the Playboy stamp on the back.  The size of these can vary widely from 5" x 7" to poster sized.  These will typically run from $10k-75k, although some of the more famous images could top $100k.  

3) B&W Illustrations on Illustration Board - For some Playboy illustrations, Nagel would draw them in India Ink on illustration board - these are typically smaller (comic art sized or smaller) and aren't as recognized images.  You can typically find one of these for $5-10k range.

4) Color "Comp" Paintings on Illustration Board - For many of the silkscreen prints, there are full size color "comp" paintings that were created so that the printer would understand how to separate the colors.  These aren't color guides, but fully finished paintings that represent how the final silkscreen should look.  These typically go for as much as finished paintings or a little more, depending on how famous the image is.  These are typically larger than Nagel's typical finished paintings (poster sized).

5) B&W Art for Silkscreens - For the silkscreen prints, a separate B&W version was drawn on illustration board for the black plate so, technically these are the images that were printed.  I would think these are the ones that may appeal to comic art collectors the most although you don't see these very often.  There haven't been enough of these sold on the market to establish prices for them very well, but most people value the color comps to be worth more. Likely most of these would run in the $7,500-$25k range.  

6) Canvas Paintings - The canvas painting have been the ones going for the most money - nice canvases typically have been running $100-$200k.  The nicest ones (like Rio) could go for more.  There are about 90 canvases that were painted for gallery shows between 1982-1984.  Most of the canvases were typically larger "reproductions" of images that Nagel had previously drawn (typically for Playboy). 

So, for a famous image like Rio, I'd expect there to be a prelim, original painting on illustration board and a canvas painting that was drawn later.  The market today values the canvases to be worth the most (because of their size), but I could see a trend down the road in which the value of the original illustration board versions catch up in price because people realize that they were the original "printed" versions.  In my opinion, the original Rio canvas would go for $500k-$1M.  A lot of people have been searching for it for a long time. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by comiconxion

[pinupcartooncollector]

On 3/29/2020 at 6:08 PM, comiconxion said:

Some info. on collecting Nagels for those that may not be as familiar with his process or prices.  For many works there could be more than one "original" to collect.  Here are the different types of originals that you'll typically find:

1) Prelims - Nagel would typically draw these at a smaller size on tissue/vellum paper.  For these, he could break the images down into his minimalistic line style.  Nagel's wife preserved many of these because she liked them.  These typically will sell in the $1-3k range.

2) Finished Paintings on Illustration Board - Typically for his published Playboy illustrations, he'd draw these on illustration board and paint them in Gouache (sometimes with colored pencil highlights).  Playboy illustrations will typically have the Playboy stamp on the back.  The size of these can vary widely from 5" x 7" to poster sized.  These will typically run from $10k-75k, although some of the more famous images could top $100k.  

3) B&W Illustrations on Illustration Board - For some Playboy illustrations, Nagel would draw them in India Ink on illustration board - these are typically smaller (comic art sized or smaller) and aren't as recognized images.  You can typically find one of these for $5-10k range.

4) Color "Comp" Paintings on Illustration Board - For many of the silkscreen prints, there are full size color "comp" paintings that were created so that the printer would understand how to separate the colors.  These aren't color guides, but fully finished paintings that represent how the final silkscreen should look.  These typically go for as much as finished paintings or a little more, depending on how famous the image is.  These are typically larger than Nagel's typical finished paintings (poster sized).

5) B&W Art for Silkscreens - For the silkscreen prints, a separate B&W version was drawn on illustration board for the black plate so, technically these are the images that were printed.  I would think these are the ones that may appeal to comic art collectors the most although you don't see these very often.  There haven't been enough of these sold on the market to establish prices for them very well, but most people value the color comps to be worth more. Likely most of these would run in the $7,500-$25k range.  

6) Canvas Paintings - The canvas painting have been the ones going for the most money - nice canvases typically have been running $100-$200k.  The nicest ones (like Rio) could go for more.  There are about 90 canvases that were painted for gallery shows between 1982-1984.  Most of the canvases were typically larger "reproductions" of images that Nagel had previously drawn (typically for Playboy). 

So, for a famous image like Rio, I'd expect there to be a prelim, original painting on illustration board and a canvas painting that was drawn later.  The market today values the canvases to be worth the most (because of their size), but I could see a trend down the road in which the value of the original illustration board versions catch up in price because people realize that they were the original "printed" versions.  In my opinion, the original Rio canvas would go for $500k-$1M.  A lot of people have been searching for it for a long time. 

I know there is a board version of Rio/Texas, do we know for sure a canvas version exists?

[comiconxion]

9 hours ago, pinupcartooncollector said:

I know there is a board version of Rio/Texas, do we know for sure a canvas version exists?

Not 100% sure, but it's rumored.  There was a rumor years ago that the originals were owned by members of Duran Duran, but no one could prove that.  In fact, it seemed liked they didn't after people probed, but not sure who owns the one pictured.

[cstojano]

Not Nagel but there is a comic art connection here as well.

10x14 inches, near 6 figure valuation. Yikes.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25996/lot/139/?category=list&length=198&page=1

Edited September 18, 2020 by cstojano

[Bronty]

Well same as with Nagel , Bilal’s work does sell for a fair amount just on name recognition before considering place of publication . 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Bronty

[vodou]

8 hours ago, Bronty said:

Well same as with Nagel , Bilal’s work does sell for a fair amount just on name recognition before considering place of publication . 

Cool art. Very small.

[ESeffinga]

Is it really small? I mean modern comic art board is usually 11”x17”, and most of it has a visual area of 10”x15”. So what, a comic cover can be a quarter mil and no one says boo about size, and this piece is 1/2” inch wider and 1/2” shorter, and for “near” 6 figures it’s too small?

Meh. Is what it is. 

I have some Belial books on my shelf. Don’t think much of this, personally, but I don’t like most of the other 6-fig comic covers either. It’s all good.

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by ESeffinga

[Bronty]

32 minutes ago, ESeffinga said:

Is it really small? I mean modern comic art board is usually 11”x17”, and most of it has a visual area of 10”x15”. So what, a comic cover can be a quarter mil and no one says boo about size, and this piece is 1/2” inch wider and 1/2” shorter, and for “near” 6 figures it’s too small?

Meh. Is what it is. 

I have some Belial books on my shelf. Don’t think much of this, personally, but I don’t like most of the other 6-fig comic covers either. It’s all good.

 

I see your point - and agree - but isn’t most of Bilal’s art large?   Ie I interpreted the small comment as small compared to his other works, but I really don’t know.

[cstojano]

Just googled the film and the size of the piece may reflect the fact that it isn't really a cover but an inset on the cover. Not sure of the right terms here. The published version looks to be about 2x3 inches on the product itself. 

I also thought most of his art was large.

[vodou]

3 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

Is it really small? 

Yes.

3 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

So what, a comic cover can be a quarter mil and no one says boo about size, and this piece is 1/2” inch wider and 1/2” shorter, and for “near” 6 figures it’s too small?

Yes. If I'm thinking about $90k...it's not for anything 11x17 or anything even close to that.

I clicked through (had to, to see this image). Saw the image, "ah, nice enough (but not for me, not for $90k)"...then, saw the size and...100% not for me

As I wrote on January 7th...

[Bronty]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

Yes.

Yes. If I'm thinking about $90k...it's not for anything 11x17 or anything even close to that.

I clicked through (had to, to see this image). Saw the image, "ah, nice enough (but not for me, not for $90k)"...then, saw the size and...100% not for me

As I wrote on January 7th...

Well I think your preaching to the choir based on the Phil Hale’s he collects.    I think you’re both right.    Comic art size is small to me for a painting, but it shouldn’t/wouldn’t  necessarily affect value.

[ESeffinga]

Yeah, I don’t care one way or the other, really. I was just pointing out the board at large regularly discusses much more expensive works at roughly the same size all the time, and was a little surprised to see a couple Negative comments about its size.
 

On a comic art board of all places. Struck me as ironic, is all.
 

[pinupcartooncollector]

Betcha almost no one would make a connection between Bilal and Duran Duran.