The Pure Hate in this Article is Astounding 1 1

[Von Cichlid]

5 hours ago, Jasten said:

And how many of people collect now a days because they grew up in the 90's and were caught up in it all? I bet the number is a hell of a lot more than you think. In fact, without the 90's, i bet comics would be long gone by now. There was some great content in the 90's and it sparked the love of comic books for so many people. It's so irritating to hear people trash that era...

I'll agree with this.  In the late 80's early 90's the sky was the limit for Marvel.  X-Men, PWJ, ASM, Wolverine, Daredevil, New Mutants, Silver Surfer, etc.  I loved and read all those titles.  There was so many cool new artists and memorable story lines (at least to a 12 year old like me) that I just read as many books as I could all the time.  

I personally blame the creative exodus that started Image for ruining comics.  Greed from the publishers and creators did infinitely more damage to the hobby than speculators, IMO.

As far as the 90's overall however, it was a pretty bad decade, especially the middle part.  I liked the Marvel Knights stuff at the end of the decade, but from about 92 - 97 it was pretty bleak, again, IMO.  

[RockMyAmadeus]

5 minutes ago, Von Cichlid said:

Greed from the publishers and creators did infinitely more damage to the hobby than speculators, IMO.

Everyone involved...yes, including me....was responsible. From top to bottom, from the CEOs of Marvel, DC, on down to the speculator who bought two copies of the book off the rack, one to read, the other to "invest."

Publishers never bothered to find out who was buying their books and why and ran the printers day and not.

Distributors radically overextended credit and refused to hold publishers accountable for massive overprinting and late product.

Retailers did nothing to discourage the speculation.

And idiot speculators bought cases and cases of garbage, hoping to "send their kids to college" with their Superman #75s.

No one....NO ONE....exercised any prudence. Buy buy buy, print print print, it's a neverending flood of money! 

And the house of cards collapsed, taking nearly the entire industry with it.

 

[Mercury Man]

2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

No one....NO ONE....exercised any prudence. Buy buy buy, print print print, it's a neverending flood of money! 

And the house of cards collapsed, taking nearly the entire industry with it.

And we can pretty much draw a parallel with comics to the sports card industry, during that same time frame.  It is almost identical.  

[kav]

4 minutes ago, Mercury Man said:

And we can pretty much draw a parallel with comics to the sports card industry, during that same time frame.  It is almost identical.  

And the current variant hype and 9.8 frenzy.  Bubbles.

[Von Cichlid]

4 minutes ago, kav said:

And the current variant hype and 9.8 frenzy.  Bubbles.

I think the variant hype is a bubble because of the fact that more variants can be made each month, essentially printing money just like the early 90's.

I don't feel that way about the 9.8 frenzy though, at least as it pertains to pre-90's material.  That seems a lot more genuine to me.  I think somebody that spends big on a 9.8 is probably not looking to flip as much as they are just really OCD about condition, which is totally understandable.  Nothing takes you back to your childhood like seeing a book look just like the day it came off the press.  That nostalgia/escapist factor, to me, is much of the essence of collecting anything.   

[comicquant]

9 hours ago, october said:

Speculators who get into something solely to exploit it for financial gain will inevitably due serious damage to the market in question, if not out-and-out ruin it. They are objectively bad for the it's long term health. How many times does this --script need to play out before people wake up? 

It's not just moderns either. Some sheeple chasing top golden age issues and keys have started shifting their dumb money into sealed video games, with predictable results. 

If there's ever been a bubble this has got to be one of the worst.  I've watched dealers jump all in, collectors trade personal grails and both just throw huge amounts of cash into a market which has barely popped its first tooth.  Don't get me wrong, I think collectible video games are cool because these are all games I had growing up but I can't see spending 5 figures on a game that has no market history.  Take demand and every other market support out of the equation, the level of carelessness thrown at this is mind boggling.  I could be 100% wrong but even I consider myself a mild risk taker and this seems insane to me.  Maybe this is what happened with graded books when they first hit the market 20 years ago?  I wasn't collecting then so I'm not sure.  As for the Batman #89 and Hell Arisen #3...  One of my LCS had both on the shelf for cover price.  They are old school (around since 1972) and don't care, or even know about the hype.  They don't have a single slab in their entire shop (but I've seen them there before), which is decently sized.  They still use a 2018 overstreet guide to price books.  The other LCS is known for joining on the spec market so if you have a pull list its typically a damaged copy or not there at all.  

[kav]

4 minutes ago, Von Cichlid said:

I think the variant hype is a bubble because of the fact that more variants can be made each month, essentially printing money just like the early 90's.

I don't feel that way about the 9.8 frenzy though, at least as it pertains to pre-90's material.  That seems a lot more genuine to me.  I think somebody that spends big on a 9.8 is probably not looking to flip as much as they are just really OCD about condition, which is totally understandable.  Nothing takes you back to your childhood like seeing a book look just like the day it came off the press.  That nostalgia/escapist factor, to me, is much of the essence of collecting anything.   

My reasoning is a 9.8 and a 9.6 are basically the same book, as depending on when sent in either grade can be had for the same book.  yet the price difference is huge.  That seems like a bubbly type situation.

[kav]

It seems like things that were meant to be discarded, like before comic books were systematically collected, or when gold coins were just spent, become valuable.  Manufactured collectibles, like beanie babies or franklin mint or variant covers, or any modern books really, since no one discards comics any more, dont have any staying power.  

[comicquant]

Meh, I just read his little rant and its a bit much.  You aren't going to reach anyone by spouting off in an unprofessional manner.  I have no idea who the guy is but this article isn't going to do anything to help his cause.  Comes across like a child throwing a temper tantrum.  Go in the bathroom, cry for 10 minutes, then be done with it...  

Edited February 28, 2020 by comicquant

[Jimmy Linguini]

In the shops facebook post about Batman #89 it mentions that the staff will judge if you're a real batman fan. That was what left me scratching my head.

[kav]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy Linguini said:

In the shops facebook post about Batman #89 it mentions that the staff will judge if you're a real batman fan. That was what left me scratching my head.

[comicquant]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy Linguini said:

In the shops facebook post about Batman #89 it mentions that the staff will judge if you're a real batman fan. That was what left me scratching my head.

Exactly.  I'm pretty sure he's his own worst enemy...  Not comic collectors.  In the words of an anger crazed fool...  (insufficiently_thoughtful_person!)

[shadroch]

Brian is far from a fool. He has been a leading voice in the retail community for two generations. His columns are widely read and he was the one who sued Marvel over their insane policy on long delayed books.

I don't agree with him on this, but he is the one whose entire adult life has been on the front lines of the industry.  

[kav]

11 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Brian is far from a fool. He has been a leading voice in the retail community for two generations. His columns are widely read and he was the one who sued Marvel over their insane policy on long delayed books.

I don't agree with him on this, but he is the one whose entire adult life has been on the front lines of the industry.  

Another of his interesting articles:
 http://comicsprogress.com/full-text-of-retailer-brian-hibbs-state-of-the-industry-speech/

Edited February 28, 2020 by kav

[Artboy99]

10 hours ago, kav said:

My reasoning is a 9.8 and a 9.6 are basically the same book, as depending on when sent in either grade can be had for the same book.  yet the price difference is huge.  That seems like a bubbly type situation.

it definitely is a bubble Kav especially for more modern books. None of them will retain their peak value and go up from that. There are numerous instances of it The Walking Dead #1 is a very good example.

I own several modern books which I have bought for the spectacular artwork on the covers, I usually buy them when they come out but a few of them I have acquired from the secondary market.

[Artboy99]

10 hours ago, kav said:

It seems like things that were meant to be discarded, like before comic books were systematically collected, or when gold coins were just spent, become valuable.  Manufactured collectibles, like beanie babies or franklin mint or variant covers, or any modern books really, since no one discards comics any more, dont have any staying power.  

I agree with this.

Discussing the old video games in this manner suggests they will be collectible as who keeps their old games and gaming consoles?

 

[mec3437]

4 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

I agree with this.

Discussing the old video games in this manner suggests they will be collectible as who keeps their old games and gaming consoles?

 

I still have an NES hooked up to my TV, and routinely play Tecmo Super Bowl and Mike Tyson's Punch Out.  I would venture to guess that I am in the minority of gamers who still use the actual NES and not an emulator or NES Classic or something similar.  

[Artboy99]

42 minutes ago, mec3437 said:

I still have an NES hooked up to my TV, and routinely play Tecmo Super Bowl and Mike Tyson's Punch Out.  I would venture to guess that I am in the minority of gamers who still use the actual NES and not an emulator or NES Classic or something similar.  

and if you were to sell your system and games you could get some bucks, but the real money will be in mint versions, still sealed and never opened...like a 9.8 comic.

[slym2none]

19 hours ago, Jasten said:

And how many of people collect now a days because they grew up in the 90's and were caught up in it all? I bet the number is a hell of a lot more than you think. In fact, without the 90's, i bet comics would be long gone by now. There was some great content in the 90's and it sparked the love of comic books for so many people. It's so irritating to hear people trash that era...

 



-slym

Edited February 28, 2020 by slym2none

[slym2none]

12 hours ago, comicquant said:

Meh, I just read his little rant and its a bit much.  You aren't going to reach anyone by spouting off in an unprofessional manner.  I have no idea who the guy is but this article isn't going to do anything to help his cause.  Comes across like a child throwing a temper tantrum.  Go in the bathroom, cry for 10 minutes, then be done with it...  

You do know that this is the day & age of the internet, where people go there and vent/whine about anything and everything, right? And not that I sought this article out, but I am much more likely to read something like this out of nowhere than Kylie Jenner's latest big-butt fashion tips.

Wait, of course you know that, you just did what that comic shop owner did - go on the internet and say something that was on your mind.

-slym