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Has the Corona virus affected any cons yet?
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434 posts in this topic

13 hours ago, MedicAR said:

 I work in healthcare and have been watching this since it first surfaced about six to eight weeks ago. ... I use the CDC, the WHO, the International Society for Infectious Diseases, and other researched and evidence based sources for my information. 

....

There is no reason for this to disrupt trade, markets, meetings, concerts, movies, or anything else.

 

At least with regards to the topic of this thread, it seems like the WHO has a different view.  The WHO has stated that there is ample evidence that mass gatherings can amplify the spread of infectious diseases. Consequently, we now see that in Italy they are playing professional soccer games with no audiences.  It is this concern which has apparently caused SxSW and other major mass gathering events to cancel out.  In addition, a number of major businesses have now banned non-essential air travel, including major international insurance companies (which are in the business of assessing risk) and law firms.

So, I would not be critical of conventions for deciding to take a year off. 

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13 hours ago, Robot Man said:

Is the flu shot they gave me extra strong? I have had them before but the day after I got it, I was sick as a dog got about 24 hours. Is this shot any more protection for a virus like this? 

I figure the glass of Jack I’m having now couldn’t hurt any either...

It's not extra strong but the shots vary from year to year based on predictions as to which strains will be most active.  Technically, they say getting the flu shot, any flu shot, won't make you sick but I'm with you, only I get sick every time I take one.  A coronavirus is a different type of virus, so no, the flu shot doesn't help on that front.  

Funny enough, I recently read where a little alcohol does seem to help!  I'll try to find the study again! 

Edited by MedicAR
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3 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

At least with regards to the topic of this thread, it seems like the WHO has a different view.  The WHO has stated that there is ample evidence that mass gatherings can amplify the spread of infectious diseases. Consequently, we now see that in Italy they are playing professional soccer games with no audiences.  It is this concern which has apparently caused SxSW and other major mass gathering events to cancel out.  In addition, a number of major businesses have now banned non-essential air travel, including major international insurance companies (which are in the business of assessing risk) and law firms.

So, I would not be critical of conventions for deciding to take a year off. 

The WHO is 100% correct.  Mass gatherings are responsible for the spread of the common cold and the flu but we don't cancel everything for them and they are exponentially more common.  

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56 minutes ago, MedicAR said:

The WHO is 100% correct.  Mass gatherings are responsible for the spread of the common cold and the flu but we don't cancel everything for them and they are exponentially more common.  

The death rate for the flu and common cold in the U.S. are exponentially less common than that for Covid-19.  The death rate for flu in the United States is 1/10th of 1%.  The WHO said this week that the death rate for Covid-19 is 3.4%.  That is 34x higher.  Now, it appears that the mortality rate may well descend as more data comes in, but it may also be that as more data comes in others factors will highlight unique risks that Covid-19 poses that the flue does not. 

My point being, you are stating some things which appear to be at odds with what I am reading from the WHO and the bulletins I am getting from my own international business employer.  While I appreciate seeing different perspectives, and I agree no one should be panicking, it is probably unwise to be implying that those businesses who are cancelling mass gatherings or ending non-essential air travel are panicked (and remember our host here has cancelled out of cons), or to suggest to a cohort that trends towards the older side that there's no reason to avoid a mass gathering.

 

Edited by sfcityduck
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15 hours ago, MedicAR said:

We have two problems right now. One is an epidemic known as COVID-19 (coronavirus) and another is best described as an "Infodemic." The first is a virus transmitted between people, the second is people transmitting anything and everything they see and/or hear about a virus. I work in healthcare and have been watching this since it first surfaced about six to eight weeks ago. I get my information from vetted sources, not Facebook, Twitter, or for the most part, mass media. The media has its place, showing us where outbreaks are but that's about all they are good for. I've been to meetings at various levels about containment and response to the virus. I'm researching this daily to take care of my people. I use the CDC, the WHO, the International Society for Infectious Diseases, and other researched and evidence based sources for my information. 

Here's what we know. The COVID-19 is a coronavirus, similar to the viruses that caused SARS and MERS. I'm sure many of you recall that both of those were going to "kill us all" in the not so distant past. The common cold is a coronavirus as well. These are caused by the same type of virus, so named because of the ridged, "crown like" appearance of the virus under intense magnification. "Corona" is Latin for "crown." It most likely originated in an animal of some kind and bats are the most likely suspect right now. It appears that it originated in or around Wuhan, China, possibly in a food market where live and dead animals are sold side by side. Wuhan is a major city with a considerable amount of international travelers to and from the city. Corona viruses generally cause flu-like symptoms including congestion, fever, cough, and body aches in addition to respiratory issues. COVID-19, SARS and MERS cause lower respiratory infections which generally lead to pneumonia and regardless of whether they turn to pneumonia or not, they can be fatal. There is no cure and treatment consists of supportive care of the symptoms. All that being said, I also just described the flu. You know, the disease some of us get vaccinated for and some of us don't by our own choice! While there is no definitive information on transmission, it is incredibly likely that it is transmitted like the flu, through droplets and close contact. The flu swabs or tests for the flu will not catch COVID-19, they are different viruses and the flu test doesn't detect COVID-19 and vice versa. If you have a weakened immune system, have other chronic diseases, have a weakened respiratory system, or are over the age of 65, you have a higher likelihood of contracting COVID-19, just as you have a greater risk of catching the flu. The big difference between COVID-19 and the flu to the average person is that most people with the flu are likely to infect 1-2 other people while those infected with COVID-19 are likely to infect 2-3 other people. That's it! 

Conspiracy theories abound. It is unlikely that this escaped from a weapons laboratory in China for a couple of reasons. It's just not virulent enough to be weapons grade anything. It's transmitted between humans but not really efficiently and it looks like it needs to start with a host, meaning that it's not easily spread in a gas or powder. Lysol did not know this was coming, that's not why they say on labels as far back as 2007 that it kills the human coronavirus. Lysol put that on their labels because they knew that the common cold is a coronavirus and that people were terrified of SARS (also a coronavirus, remember?) because of the media. 

Keeping it clean. Be aware that for any of the products that kill a coronavirus to be effective, they generally need to be sprayed on and left for one minute or allowed to air dry. Anything else is just smearing the viruses around, assuming that they were even there in the first place. Always consult the product label for best use. Hand sanitizers need to cover the hands and then allowed to air dry. Rubbing them until they are dry just smears whatever you're trying to kill all over your hands. If you have symptoms, a mask will very likely prevent you spreading the disease. A mask, shy of an N-95 (or higher number), is not likely to prevent catching the disease. Even then, the N95 needs to be worn properly with a good seal. Surgical masks are not intended to protect the wearer, they are intended to prevent the wearer spreading whatever they are carrying. They might help the healthy but that's a big "might" as there is no evidence proving it. As for the wipes at Wal-Mart, grocery stores, and anywhere else people use a shopping cart, you're really just moving the germs around on the surface. Wash your hands regularly and cover your mouth and nose when you cough or sneeze. I feel silly having to tell people that because anything else is just gross. 

There is no reason for this to disrupt trade, markets, meetings, concerts, movies, or anything else. It is essentially a different version of the flu caused by a different type of virus. To put it in terms of dogs, not all dogs are Doberman Pinchers but it's also true that not all dogs are Chihuahuas. Viruses, like dogs, come in all shapes and sizes and are known for different characteristics. Does it really matter what dog bites you? Regardless, you're still bit! Same with COVID-19 and the flu, similar symptoms, similar treatments. Go about your business! Until the last two weeks, the flu had killed more people since October than had contracted COVID-19! Flu deaths this season are about four times higher than COVID-19 and I imagine both will start declining because everyone is seeing a doctor for every sniffle now. 

This is something for you to really think about. The question that is just beginning to circulate now is whether this really is new or if it has been around and we're just now diagnosing it. Maybe six months or a year ago we would have shrugged and said "it's not the flu, just some other virus. Get some rest." 

The virus can live on surfaces but the length of time is unclear so far. It may be as short as two hours or as long as several days. Prior to cleaning a room after a confirmed case left, about 80% of surfaces had the live virus on them. After disinfection, this dropped to 0%. Standard household cleaner can and do kill it when used properly. There are several listed by the EPA now and many news outlets have listed them or a link to them. Check the labels if in doubt!

 

If my word isn't good enough, check out Dr. Abdu Sharkawy, MD and Assistant Clinical Professor of Medicine at the University of Toronto

thanks for taking the time to type this and communicate it in easy terms. It must be frustrating for you as people, I dunno, they wanna believe wack shzit from non-experts and argue with the experts.

I'm an expert on one thing (unfortunately) just cause I've done it night and day for 3 decades. People ask me about celebrities all the time (never interesting filmic questions like, "How can the choice of film stock and lighting become an important character in a film?) and when I tell them, yeah, Dr. Phil is an a-hole, a worthless human being they argue with me because they saw a photo of Dr. Phil in People magazine and his teeth were perfectly straight, he was smiling with a litter of puppies and worthless people don't do that. My 10 years working on the stage at Paramount next to his stage means nothing. Me knowing every security guard at Paramount means nothing. Me knowing 70% of the artists working on his show means nothing. Just that photo in People with the puppies.

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1 hour ago, NoMan said:

It must be frustrating for you as people, I dunno, they wanna believe wack shzit from non-experts and argue with the experts.

 

I agree with you on Dr. Phil.  But, I don't recall any crazy responses to MedicAR on this thread.  If you are talking about CGC cancelling out of conventions, it is worth noting that the San Francisco Department of Public Health, which has a lot of experience with and expertise in the spread of deadly diseases, just recommended that all non-essential community gatherings be cancelled and, in response, the Mayor just cancelled all music and entertainment events in publicly owned venues (e.g., the symphony, ballet, etc.).  I really can't fault CGC for taking steps to protect its employees, especially when my own law firm and many of its clients are doing the same thing. 

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3 hours ago, sfcityduck said:
3 hours ago, MedicAR said:

The WHO is 100% correct.  Mass gatherings are responsible for the spread of the common cold and the flu but we don't cancel everything for them and they are exponentially more common.  

The death rate for the flu and common cold in the U.S. are exponentially less common than that for Covid-19.  The death rate for flu in the United States is 1/10th of 1%.  The WHO said this week that the death rate for Covid-19 is 3.4%.  That is 34x higher.  Now, it appears that the mortality rate may well descend as more data comes in, but it may also be that as more data comes in others factors will highlight unique risks that Covid-19 poses that the flue does not. 

Yes, but you have to take into account that 0.1%+ of a much bigger number like the estimated 45 million annual seasonal flu cases (eg. there were actually an estimate of 61,000 associated deaths in America from the seasonal flu last year) is still exponentially higher than 3.4% of a much smaller number like say 4,000 or possibly even 5,000 cases of Covid-19 by the time it's all said and done.  Personally, I still think it's a complete overreaction to all of the fear monegering that's going around because Covid-19 is something brand new and definitely something that we don't understand yet, especially in relationship to the seasonal flu and common cold which is also deadly in some cases. hm

Like I have stated in other threads here before, if they started to do a real-time body count on the number of seasonal flu cases and associated deaths and the gneral public and social media platforms reacted to it similar to how they have reacted to Covid-19, you would probably see the entire world locked down into their homes and the Dow Jones, S&P 500, and all of the other global stock markets approaching zero.  :sick:  :tonofbricks:

Edited by lou_fine
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3 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Yes, but you have to take into account that 0.1%+ of a much bigger number like the estimated 45 million annual seasonal flu cases (eg. there were actually an estimate of 61,000 associated deaths in America from the seasonal flu last year) is still exponentially higher than 3.4% of a much smaller number like say 4,000 or possibly even 5,000 cases of Covid-19 by the time it's all said and done.

But we're not even close to being all said and done. COVID-19 is just getting started.

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On the bright side for consumers (definitely not businesses), covid-19 has caused China to cancel out of most of its lobster buying from the U.S.  So lobster prices have dropped by 50%.  Tonight my wife and I dined on 16 oz. lobster tails for a comparatively cheap price over here on the left coast.  

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7 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

On the bright side for consumers (definitely not businesses), covid-19 has caused China to cancel out of most of its lobster buying from the U.S.  So lobster prices have dropped by 50%.  Tonight my wife and I dined on 16 oz. lobster tails for a comparatively cheap price over here on the left coast.  

It's nice for us, but as someone who has cattle for a hobby/secondary (not much) income I feel for the lobstermen. It sucks when things out of your control happen like this.

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I went to the Cleveland Wizard show on Saturday since my wife wanted to cosplay (she got 5th in the cos-play contest).  We don't have any known cases here in Ohio but i wasn't too worried about the whole thing since I'm 46 and fairly healthy.  The crowds seemed pretty good on Saturday but the number of booths were about 1/3 less then the last time I went in 2018 - not sure if that is due to booth prices or the virus.  There was a guy carting around a cart filled with hand sanitizer and he was giving it out free to everyone.  I will say that people seemed extra cognitive about coughing into their arms.  The con itself sucked in terms of comic dealers but that is another story.

I'm wondering if less people will end up dying this year from the flu and bad colds this year compared to previous years even after you factor in covid-19 deaths.  People are on a heightened level of worry which could drop the number of all contagions across the board. 

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Is there a reason the news won't post a more balanced report of Coronavirus news?

I'd encourage you to read and share this, which I got from someone else, to help balance the panic that the news seems to be instilling in people.

Per the link of a weekly CDC report below, “CDC estimates that so far this season there have been at least 32 million flu illnesses, 310,000 hospitalizations and 18,000 deaths from flu.”

Yet, no major panic over the data.

Another thing, per the same report, in some cases the impact of the H1N1 is the highest it has been, even greater than the 2009 outbreak – still no major stories reported about this, no panic, why?

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/summary.html

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37 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

Per the link of a weekly CDC report below, “CDC estimates that so far this season there have been at least 32 million flu illnesses, 310,000 hospitalizations and 18,000 deaths from flu.”

Yet, no major panic over the data.

Flu is, unfortunately, normal. It's just a regular part of life that everybody has accepted.

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1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

Per the link of a weekly CDC report below, “CDC estimates that so far this season there have been at least 32 million flu illnesses, 310,000 hospitalizations and 18,000 deaths from flu.”

Yet, no major panic over the data.

Another thing, per the same report, in some cases the impact of the H1N1 is the highest it has been, even greater than the 2009 outbreak – still no major stories reported about this, no panic, why?

Well, it's really rather simple as I've already mentioned here many times before.  :gossip:

Since there's no ongoing real-time body count count that's being done around the world for these other much more common and also deadly seasonal contagions, than the true culprit here (i.e. the virus of fear and panic) does not rear its irrational ugly head to the same extent.  hm  :fear:

Edited by lou_fine
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1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

Is there a reason the news won't post a more balanced report of Coronavirus news?

I'd encourage you to read and share this, which I got from someone else, to help balance the panic that the news seems to be instilling in people.

Per the link of a weekly CDC report below, “CDC estimates that so far this season there have been at least 32 million flu illnesses, 310,000 hospitalizations and 18,000 deaths from flu.”

Yet, no major panic over the data.

Another thing, per the same report, in some cases the impact of the H1N1 is the highest it has been, even greater than the 2009 outbreak – still no major stories reported about this, no panic, why?

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/summary.html

The flu has not caused an entire city to be shut down like Wuhan or entire sections of a country like Italy. Interesting times. 
 

Most of us would be fine but It’s really bad news for seniors, can decimate a senior home. CDC has recommended if you’re over 60 to stock up and stay home. 

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4 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Flu is, unfortunately, normal. It's just a regular part of life that everybody has accepted.

As CV 19 will likely be one day.

I see this is a great opportunity for people to change bad habits. I've never liked shaking hands and I've stopped doing it. This was a great reason to.

3 hours ago, Quicksilver Signs said:

The flu has not caused an entire city to be shut down like Wuhan or entire sections of a country like Italy. Interesting times. 
 

Most of us would be fine but It’s really bad news for seniors, can decimate a senior home. CDC has recommended if you’re over 60 to stock up and stay home. 

I understand but people were still dying from Flu or H1N1 and nobody has been panicking.

Just a few simple hygene changes will do more to slow down CV 19 than anything else.

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On 3/8/2020 at 6:01 PM, Lazyboy said:

But we're not even close to being all said and done. COVID-19 is just getting started.

Based on what?  The cases in China, the center of the outbreak, have nearly leveled off.  

 

12 hours ago, 1Cool said:

I'm wondering if less people will end up dying this year from the flu and bad colds this year compared to previous years even after you factor in covid-19 deaths.  People are on a heightened level of worry which could drop the number of all contagions across the board. 

Very likely.  We're the point now where everyone with the sniffles goes to the doctor.  Combine that with discouraging everyone from going to any type of gathering and I imagine deaths and infections will be down.  

 

3 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Since there's no ongoing real-time body count count that's being done around the world for these other much more common and also deadly seasonal contagions, than the true culprit here (i.e. the virus of fear and panic) does not rear its irrational ugly head to the same extent.  hm  :fear:

There is a weekly count released by CDC for the US.  If you were to compare the flu to COVID-19, you would see more deaths from flu than there are cases of COVID-19.  

I've got fire crews in my area saying that they will go in wearing full haz-mat suits with SCBA if they get a call for a potential COVID-19 patient.  Despite all that we are doing, all that the hospitals are doing, that the national and global organizations are doing to calm their fears, they are essentially going in wearing space suits.  :facepalm:

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14 minutes ago, MedicAR said:

Based on what?  The cases in China, the center of the outbreak, have nearly leveled off.  

 

Very likely.  We're the point now where everyone with the sniffles goes to the doctor.  Combine that with discouraging everyone from going to any type of gathering and I imagine deaths and infections will be down.  

 

There is a weekly count released by CDC for the US.  If you were to compare the flu to COVID-19, you would see more deaths from flu than there are cases of COVID-19.  

I've got fire crews in my area saying that they will go in wearing full haz-mat suits with SCBA if they get a call for a potential COVID-19 patient.  Despite all that we are doing, all that the hospitals are doing, that the national and global organizations are doing to calm their fears, they are essentially going in wearing space suits.  :facepalm:

 China leveling off can’t be compared to North America where the level of containment is miles apart, people are barely being tested in the US. There are multiple media stories (not all media is bs, regardless of what some people want you to think) of how difficult it is to get tested  

2 weeks ago there were + - 300 cases in Italy, today there are over 9000. 60 million people there, over 300 in the US

anyway, I hope you’re right and there’s no there there, I have a comic con to go to next month that I don’t want to see cancelled. 

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