Promoters - do the right thing ... cancel the con! 3 3

[Crops068]

15 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

25 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

No you shouldn't feel responsible, my point was if you blatantly ignore the concern (a la a certain basketball player who ironically now has the virus and has infected teammates), well then I feel you should shoulder some blame. But heck no, if someone is just going about their life and gets it well how would you know? But if I am sick, I am not spreading it on people or if I am known to have been around someone who had COVID, I am not ignoring the suggestions to self quarantine. 

I agree with everything your saying. I'm not trying to dodge responsibility, like you I want to the right thing, but I'm not sick, is why I'm asking questions, I don't want to do it out of fear

25 minutes ago, wombat said:

It doesn't matter if promoters want to cancel or not. States are making the choice for them. 

 

21 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

I live in the GTA and I'm not setting foot anywhere near the convention.  Last thing I want to happen is a similar situation to Italy, where the entire country is under lockdown.  If the cost of avoiding a lockdown is cancelling some stupid comic convention to prevent more death and misery than necessary from occurring, then its a SMALL price to pay.

This is what I'm saying, this is not Italy, I'm not sick, con's in my area are not being cancelled and I'm asking questions. Believe it or not I'm inquiring on what are my options. Telling me I'll kill innocents is not effective way of telling someone to inform them. But I'll take what I can get at this point. I'm not trying to change your mind on the situation. You've given me instances where children are sick but not dying, which happens every day. I'll take this into consideration, but given my gut reaction I hope the choice is made for me and the shows are cancelled. I don't judge you don't want to preach. I'll swallow my pride and do the best I can.

Thank you for listening and giving feedback 

We should not have to be defensive.  We are all adults and can make adult decisions on our own.  If you don't like the decisions I make, so long as they are not outright hurting you, which in this example they are not (yet).  Then that is that.

If the convention I want to go to happens and I am healthy, then I will go.  Nobody on these boards will alter my perception of that fact.  Just like I do not expect to alter any of ya'll perceptions.  But forcing your opinion down someone else's throat is wrong.

Educate don't pontificate.

[MusterMark]

The vast majority of cases in China — 87% — were in people ages 30 to 79.

In China, only about 3% of people infected were 20 or younger.

So the young people get the infection at a much lower rate (probably due to stronger immune systems and the lack of other medical problems) than the rest of the population .

 

But, the death rates are even smaller for the youth.  Out of the more than 3000 in China who have died from this, ONLY 1 was under the age of 20!

The fatality rate was 14.8% in people 80 or older, 1.3% in 50-somethings, 0.4% in 40-somethings, and ONLY 0.2% in people 10 to 39.

 

However, and here’s the catch:

If you are young and have been infected, you might not know it, because many of the youth do not show symptoms.  And these are the youth who are particular dangerous to the rest of the population – because they may not know they are infected but could be spreading the virus to others.

 

The way I look at it is, if you don’t care if you are spreading the virus or not, that is highly irresponsible.  Just because you don’t show symptoms doesn’t mean that you don’t have it.

You may not care what I think (it’s a free country), but I would consider you to be highly irresponsible.

[CCComics]

2 hours ago, Quicksilver Signs said:

Politically motivated by who? Everything’s a conspiracy with some people

I say....show promoters....do the right thing....Keep the show going.

And if you have to ask, politically motivated by who? You definitely arent keeping up with news.

[ADAMANTIUM]

5 minutes ago, MusterMark said:

The vast majority of cases in China — 87% — were in people ages 30 to 79.

 

In China, only about 3% of people infected were 20 or younger.

 

So the young people get the infection at a much lower rate (probably due to stronger immune systems and the lack of other medical problems) than the rest of the population .

 

 

 

But, the death rates are even smaller for the youth.  Out of the more than 3000 in China who have died from this, ONLY 1 was under the age of 20!

 

The fatality rate was 14.8% in people 80 or older, 1.3% in 50-somethings, 0.4% in 40-somethings, and ONLY 0.2% in people 10 to 39.

 

 

 

However, and here’s the catch:

 

If you are young and have been infected, you might not know it, because many of the youth do not show symptoms.  And these are the youth who are particular dangerous to the rest of the population – because they may not know they are infected but could be spreading the virus to others.

 

 

 

The way I look at it is, if you don’t care if you are spreading the virus or not, that is highly irresponsible.  Just because you don’t show symptoms doesn’t mean that you don’t have it.

 

You may not care what I think (it’s a free country), but I would consider you to be highly irresponsible.

 

Thank you for this by the way

 

[Lazyboy]

22 minutes ago, CCComics said:

I say....show promoters....do the right thing....Keep the show going.

And if you have to ask, politically motivated by who? You definitely arent keeping up with news.

Not everybody is American, . Are the political motivations of all other countries the same?

But it's a good thing you're special and nobody else matters.

[MusterMark]

34 minutes ago, CCComics said:

I say....show promoters....do the right thing....Keep the show going.

And if you have to ask, politically motivated by who? You definitely arent keeping up with news.

 

You might be aware of the Spanish Flu world pandemic of 1918-1919.  It’s the deadliest pandemic in world history that we have a lot of information about.  Very deadly indeed:  675,000 Americans died from it (and the Spanish Flu spread in the US in three “waves”), and more than 20 million worldwide died from it.

Consider Three American cities, with different approaches, and very different numbers of fatalities:

Philadelphia:  refused to cancel the Liberty Loan Parade.  Just 72 hours after the parade, all 31 of Philadelphia’s hospitals were full and 2,600 people were dead by the end of the week.

St. Louis:  closed the schools, closed movie theaters and pool halls, and banned all public gatherings.  The peak mortality rate in St. Louis was only one-eighth of Philadelphia’s death rate at its worst.

San Francisco:  Made wearing masks in public mandatory, closed schools, banned social gatherings and closed all places of “public amusement.”  Result: low infection rates. BUT, when the next wave of the Spanish Flu arrived, businesses and theater owners, believing masks were what saved them the first time, fought back against public gathering orders.  As a result, San Francisco ended up suffering some of the highest death rates from Spanish flu nationwide.

 

I’m sure the full understanding of what happened is more nuanced and detailed than what I have presented above.  But the general gist of it is correct.

 

So, should we perhaps try to learn from history?  Or should we be doomed to perhaps repeat it?

[shadroch]

1 hour ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I agree with everything your saying. I'm not trying to dodge responsibility, like you I want to the right thing, but I'm not sick, is why I'm asking questions, I don't want to do it out of fear

 

This is what I'm saying, this is not Italy, I'm not sick, con's in my area are not being cancelled and I'm asking questions. Believe it or not I'm inquiring on what are my options. Telling me I'll kill innocents is not effective way of telling someone to inform them. But I'll take what I can get at this point. I'm not trying to change your mind on the situation. You've given me instances where children are sick but not dying, which happens every day. I'll take this into consideration, but given my gut reaction I hope the choice is made for me and the shows are cancelled. I don't judge you don't want to preach. I'll swallow my pride and do the best I can.

Thank you for listening and giving feedback 

Don't do it out of fear. Do it out of love. Stay home and reduce the chances you might end up infecting someone you love. 

CNN is saying the virus can stay on cardboard for more than a day and plastic for up to three. Seems like you might run into a bit of that at a comic show. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

Just now, shadroch said:

Don't do it out of fear. Do it out of love. Stay home and reduce the chances you might end up infecting someone you love. 

CNN is saying the virus can stay on cardboard for more than a day and plastic for up to three. Seems like you might run into a bit of that at a comic show. 

Your right. They were right. Sometimes I'm stubborn. It just sucks ssssooo much, where everyone in real time 2 65 year olds (parents) on 80 year (real dad) and aunt at 73 all tell me to go

They're the elderly I'm around from time to time, we all meet on Thursday at parents (except real dad) to have dinner and watch comedies....

I mentioned what y'all were trying to say, they're as stubborn as me sometimes 

[Quicksilver Signs]

49 minutes ago, CCComics said:

I say....show promoters....do the right thing....Keep the show going.

And if you have to ask, politically motivated by who? You definitely arent keeping up with news.

Sure Q

[Golden Memories]

The point is now moot 

     All shows for at least the next 3 months will have to be cancelled

    I am 61 and this is my business and my pleasure as well

   The shows to me are both business and a social  event 

    I was greatly looking forward to Boston when Ace shut it down, as  they had no choice 

    Since Tom Hanks got covid can you picture any Celeberity or Star comitting to a mass attendance event for the foreseeable future?  

     Speaking of which

      We are  at the very beginning of a massive pandemic , We have absolutely no idea how many people in this country are infected because testing has been absolutely minimal  it is almost certainly multiples of what is being reported , the nonsense that "OLD" people get it (me) is a myth Old people (me) are most vulnerable, but that does not mean if you are 20 you are free. This is a nasty MUTATING virus with no cure . 

     The states one by one will continue  to limit event sizes thus making this discussion moot, NYC and CA have for the time being made holding any show impossible.  In fact NYC is all but shut down.  There may soon even be limits on interstate travel (trump)

and isolation zones (already in NY)

    Lets say a promoter decides to hold a show next week , who's going to come? half the country is scared to death, Many of the dealers wont show  a large percentage of the 50+crowd wont either , would a successful artist or actor put themselves in the middle of a large crowd now, I doubt it.

   What you will have is a shell of a show with a few hundred people 

   Again I was willing to risk going to Boston, But  I understand why they had to cancel 

   Coming soon are some of my most profitable and pleasurable shows, 

   But I have accepted the fact they are almost certainly going to be cancelled, 

  This is  not the promoters fault 

   Fortunatelly I have the resources to weather the storm, but I know many dealers including friends who do not

    We need to accept the fact the spring is lost at this point and persue other options 

    IF we as a country are lucky,  this virus thrives in cold weather  only, and  we MAY get the summer back ,

    Please do not blame the promoters, dealers, guests, or attendees for something that is out of their control

   I hope to see many of you  at  East Coast, Terrifficon, Awesome con etc.  If not this year, then the next

    And remember about covid, they know something we don't !

  

 

[Keys_Collector]

[jjonahjameson11]

42 minutes ago, Taylor G said:

Since someone mentioned the different reactions of Philadelphia and St Louis-Missouri during the 1918 flu, here is a graph of the different health outcomes (St Louis reacted immediately when cases were discovered, Philadelphia waited a week):

This graph explains why social distancing is so important, it slows down the spread of the disease and spreads the load over time, otherwise the healthcare system (ICUs, ventilators, hospital beds) gets overwhelmed by a spike in patients:

The idea of "keeping on despite the flu" was prevalent during the Spanish flu, and was responsible for many of the deaths:

In the present day, Iran for example looks like it's in very bad shape in part because they've been ignoring healthcare recommendations and continuing with religious gatherings.

Actually, here in Canada, the Council of Imams and the Muslim Medical Association of Canada have recommended that services be suspended indefinitely in order to do their part to reduce the spread of covid-19.

i wish convention promoters would be as responsible and do the right thing by cancelling their conventions.

those that haven’t yet cancelled are clearly sending the message that the almighty dollar trumps your health, and that of anyone else you may come in contact with.

they do not have my support and they will not receive my business now or during subsequent events.

Edited March 13, 2020 by jjonahjameson11

[ADAMANTIUM]

@jjonahjameson11

It's looking good for Dallas fan expo to be cancelled thank God, the mayor just issued a state of emergency,  no gatherings over 500+ and for 60+ no gatherings of 10+ people...

Glad the decision was made because my folks had spent money at Christmas on the con, and they weren't trying to force me but were ok with it and I might have gone

not perfect

[ADAMANTIUM]

Anyway I guess I'll post this here too....

I just wanted to say, sorry that I may have gone to the con despite everything. If it wasn't cancelled my parents wouldn't have got a refund, and I know what they went through to pay for some of the stuff at the con. I should have just used my next paycheck to pay them back and not go. When they were kind of adamant that I should still go, I got my signals crossed. I saw them last night for dinner on Thursdays that we do with my Aunt, and they had all heard different stuff about the virus and were sure that they'd be fine.

Sometimes that stubborness rubs off......  

[Golden Memories]

The world Changed in a week 

mass gatherings and events are now unthinkable 

Count on every show for at least 3 months to be cancelled 

[jjonahjameson11]

Here in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area), March break has been extended by an additional two weeks for all grades, the St Patrick’s Day parade is cancelled, the Superior court of Ontario has issued a statement that trails requiring juries are postponed, and so on.

We’ll see how this evolves, but if the number of cases continues to spike significantly, we can expect the closure of more public facilities such as libraries, community centres, religious events, and possibly, movie theatres, malls, and who knows what else.

[The Lions Den]

Ignorance and cockiness are often a bad combination...

[Krismusic]

4 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Here in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area), March break has been extended by an additional two weeks for all grades, the St Patrick’s Day parade is cancelled, the Superior court of Ontario has issued a statement that trails requiring juries are postponed, and so on.

We’ll see how this evolves, but if the number of cases continues to spike significantly, we can expect the closure of more public facilities such as libraries, community centres, religious events, and possibly, movie theatres, malls, and who knows what else.

It’s getting worse in Canada more closures all over I see a lock down in the gta very soon and people are emptying the grocery stores 

[Krismusic]

No cruise ships allowed to dock in canada till July 1st

[Bird]

14 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Your right. They were right. Sometimes I'm stubborn. It just sucks ssssooo much, where everyone in real time 2 65 year olds (parents) on 80 year (real dad) and aunt at 73 all tell me to go

They're the elderly I'm around from time to time, we all meet on Thursday at parents (except real dad) to have dinner and watch comedies....

I mentioned what y'all were trying to say, they're as stubborn as me sometimes 

my daughter is 20 and my parents were flying her down to Florida to spend time with them for Spring Break next week. Daughter was ready to go no matter what, but recognized that she didn't want to live her whole life with the idea she killed grammy and grampy! Low probability, yes, but risk vs reward says stay home.

Now I have to drive to brooklyn and pick her up next Monday or Tuesday. It is going to be like Escape from New York and I am Snake Plissken!