GA COMIC BOOK Collecting in the Financial crisis of 2020 3 3

[MSGComics]

7 hours ago, tabcom said:

The comic book investor ‘me’ feels the froth.

The comic book collector ‘me‘ has a core of Generational Comics to pass onto Tabcom jrs.

I’ve been a net seller for about 15 months now.
Judging by my sales, and dealers FMV pricing, the market has not priced in what’s coming yet.

As for my sales proceeds, I feel it’s time to rotate to a different asset class that will out perform collectible comics this decade. 

 

Pretty much

 

 

[MSGComics]

7 hours ago, tabcom said:

The comic book investor ‘me’ feels the froth.

The comic book collector ‘me‘ has a core of Generational Comics to pass onto Tabcom jrs.

I’ve been a net seller for about 15 months now.
Judging by my sales, and dealers FMV pricing, the market has not priced in what’s coming yet.

As for my sales proceeds, I feel it’s time to rotate to a different asset class that will out perform collectible comics this decade. 

My thoughts exactly

 

[Axmen]

Hey Mmehdy and all you other GA oligarchs - wouldnt the best plan be to liquidate all GA NOW before the coming crash - then repurchase everything when prices bottom out?  Im serious, I figure all you 1% ers understand the ins and outs of making $$ better than me.  But I don't understand why you would hold through a crash and wait years for the prices to recover - same with stocks or anything really.

[Tri-Color Brian]

6 hours ago, Axmen said:

Hey Mmehdy and all you other GA oligarchs - wouldnt the best plan be to liquidate all GA NOW before the coming crash - then repurchase everything when prices bottom out?  Im serious, I figure all you 1% ers understand the ins and outs of making $$ better than me.  But I don't understand why you would hold through a crash and wait years for the prices to recover - same with stocks or anything really.

Because we collected mostly what we wanted, and we don't want to sell what we wanted...they were too hard to find...and there's no guarantee we will ever find them again even if prices "bottom out", which I doubt will happen across the board.  I have noticed something interesting over the years:  When a large portion of society gets panicky and paranoid about something it seldom happens the way expected.  I normally just sit back and watch to see...and usually I'm disappointed in the predicted results.  I could be wrong this time, but I don't think so...

Just noticed that reported cases of Covid19 and number of deaths in the U.S. seems to have peaked on April 10th and is now going down in both categories.  This is some good news anyway...

Edited April 14, 2020 by Tri-ColorBrian

[october]

18 hours ago, tabcom said:

The comic book investor ‘me’ feels the froth.

The comic book collector ‘me‘ has a core of Generational Comics to pass onto Tabcom jrs.

I’ve been a net seller for about 15 months now.
Judging by my sales, and dealers FMV pricing, the market has not priced in what’s coming yet.

As for my sales proceeds, I feel it’s time to rotate to a different asset class that will out perform collectible comics this decade. 

This post could have come straight out of my head. 

Except it's October jrs for me. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by october

[Mmehdy]

10 hours ago, Axmen said:

Hey Mmehdy and all you other GA oligarchs - wouldnt the best plan be to liquidate all GA NOW before the coming crash - then repurchase everything when prices bottom out?  Im serious, I figure all you 1% ers understand the ins and outs of making $$ better than me.  But I don't understand why you would hold through a crash and wait years for the prices to recover - same with stocks or anything really.

Every true comic book collector is equal in our world. Whether you own one book or a thousand. It is where your heart is that counts, Axmen. If you are here because you think that comic books are a true art form both in writing and drawing, a window to the past and maybe the future, and something that never should be forgotten as GA comic books help get American thru economic depression,Adolf Hitler, and created one thing..hope and imagination then you are in the right place.

"But I  don't understand why you would hold through a crash and wait years for prices to recover-same with stocks or anything really".

 I agree you don't understand.

Ga/SA comic book collecting is NOT stock buying or "anything really'. There is more to Ga/SA comic book collecting that having you bank account get bigger, or ledger grow. There are no "oligarchs" in the GA/SA comic book world...even CC who probably has the largest comic book and original art inventory are not  one them. Steve has been a collector since day one, not only  comics but comic and pulp art and Movie posters. A true GA/SA comic book collector is not a money machine who sole purpose is to gain wealth. Leave that to Wall Street, Leave it "anything else" but NOT here.. Nor is a true comic book collector a market manipulator. Leave that to the flippers and speculations who don't care where they put there money, Ga, Stocks, and "anything really". A true GA/SA comic book collector is judged on who he is, not what he owns.

 Of course GA/SA collecting has never been really cheap..even when I purchased first Action #1 for $1801.26, my Ford mustang  cost me $1500. It's all relative. Ga/SA collecting, and I agree with you involves two components not like late 60's, early 70's. In the old days, the smart collectors knew everything was gonna go up, so if you want to complete your collection you had to buy everything you could. We did not buy just to make money, we bought to complete our collections. Today, it it more complex and the competition is the whole world...when buying gets tougher, you have to be smarter and be aware of the current market value to get the best bang for your GA Bucks.  That buying strategy is 100% fine with me. Price has to be a consideration in the equation but not 100% of it.  So we have the whole world to compete against  including other true comic collectors and add the flippers and greed and welcome to the state of the GA/SA comic book market.

 Who is gonna take a hit over the next months...first the flippers, and then the pure investors are gonna be the first to bail. I don't feel sorry for them..they will just move on to options, gold, and bonds. So be it, you never belonged here anyway. Hopefully this will restore some price sanity in our market, make out GA/SA market more real and  stable and we can get back to collecting like we once were. Our GA/SA purchasing power should increase one true market value is realized and we are left alone.

 I do not think you statement was meant to insult me, but still I feel insulted as would any true Ga/SA comic book collector. To sell and buy back cheaper, while sound economic wise, is not the main reason we are here. There are bigger things in the true GA/SA comic book collectors universe , like when you see a GA book you have never seen before after 60 years of collecting, finding one you have wanted for the last 40 years, competing after 15 years a comic book run. Those feeling have nothing to do with you saving account  and never will. 

Axmen, to respond to you post . I submit this :

 No true GA/SA comic book collector would ever risk, selling a ultra rare GA/SA comic book for a profit with the chance of losing it forever just for the chance to buy it back cheaper. 

Axmen: I understand you question, it is a very logical one, but sometimes the heart wins out.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Mmehdy

[Axmen]

2 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

 No true GA/SA comic book collector would ever risk, selling a ultra rare GA/SA comic book for a profit with the chance of losing it forever just for the chance to buy it back cheaper. 

Axmen: I understand you question, it is a very logical one, but sometimes the heart wins out.

Your answer here makes sense to me.

Im sorry my post came off as harsh, I didn't mean to insult you. I read your posts and other more experienced collectors' posts to learn about the hobby.  Ive managed to put together a pretty cool PCH GA collection over the last few years and I would like to keep developing the collection but in an intelligent way. 

That being said, my post I guess not so subtly comments on what I realized reading this thread - that there is a pretty wide income gap amongst members of the community here. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Axmen

[KCOComics]

12 hours ago, Axmen said:

But I don't understand why you would hold through a crash and wait years for the prices to recover - same with stocks or anything really.

It's very hard to predict what the market will do at any given time.  I follow the old expression "it's not about timing the market,  it's about time in the market"  

When the market started crashing,  the last thing on my mind was selling. I was buying. Short term,  I'll take some bumps,  but you've got to play the long game. 

As for comics, I think most people do it for the love of collecting. Its not an investment,  it's a hobby.  It may make sense to dump them now from a financial stand point,  but financial gain isn't why I collect. 

 

[Ryan.]

18 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

It's very hard to predict what the market will do at any given time. 

Yup. Most of the assumptions in this thread, as well as the boards at large, are that the comic collecting market is definitely going to depress. I'm not so sure about that. People find comfort in their hobbies. 

As far as selling off books now before the expected crash in order to rebuy them cheaper, I've learned the hard way that selling off rare GA in order to buy again later is a lot easier said than done. If the market does indeed depress, books are likely to become even harder to find. 

[Mmehdy]

1 hour ago, Axmen said:

Your answer here makes sense to me.

Im sorry my post came off as harsh, I didn't mean to insult you. I read your posts and other more experienced collectors' posts to learn about the hobby.  Ive managed to put together a pretty cool PCH GA collection over the last few years and I would like to keep developing the collection but in an intelligent way. 

That being said, my post I guess not so subtly comments on what I realized reading this thread - that there is a pretty wide income gap amongst members of the community here. 

Thanks for you reply..we are all good. The income gap can be made up by the time of entry when you started you GA Collection. as well as smart GA buying and not trying to get the highest graded copy of that book. I agree with you, some GA has been pumped up tremendously by speculators, investors and flippers. Over the next 12-18 we will see how well the prices hold and what those guys do. For a flipper by definition is generally not a long term holder...you never know. I am proud that you have put together a cool PCH GA collection no matter how much money you spent. Keeping in the buying GA/SA game in an intelligent way is the best way to proceed in a time of uncertainly. I hope you keep and enjoy your collection for a long long time.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Mmehdy

[Cat-Man_America]

Teaser, see next post for context... 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Cat-Man_America

[Cat-Man_America]

13 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

Every true comic book collector is equal in our world. Whether you own one book or a thousand. It is where your heart is that counts, Axmen. If you are here because you think that comic books are a true art form both in writing and drawing, a window to the past and maybe the future, and something that never should be forgotten as GA comic books help get American thru economic depression,Adolf Hitler, and created one thing..hope and imagination then you are in the right place.

"But I  don't understand why you would hold through a crash and wait years for prices to recover-same with stocks or anything really".

 I agree you don't understand.

Ga/SA comic book collecting is NOT stock buying or "anything really'. There is more to Ga/SA comic book collecting that having you bank account get bigger, or ledger grow. There are no "oligarchs" in the GA/SA comic book world...even CC who probably has the largest comic book and original art inventory are not  one them. Steve has been a collector since day one, not only  comics but comic and pulp art and Movie posters. A true GA/SA comic book collector is not a money machine who sole purpose is to gain wealth. Leave that to Wall Street, Leave it "anything else" but NOT here.. Nor is a true comic book collector a market manipulator. Leave that to the flippers and speculations who don't care where they put there money, Ga, Stocks, and "anything really". A true GA/SA comic book collector is judged on who he is, not what he owns.

 Of course GA/SA collecting has never been really cheap..even when I purchased first Action #1 for $1801.26, my Ford mustang  cost me $1500. It's all relative. Ga/SA collecting, and I agree with you involves two components not like late 60's, early 70's. In the old days, the smart collectors knew everything was gonna go up, so if you want to complete your collection you had to buy everything you could. We did not buy just to make money, we bought to complete our collections. Today, it it more complex and the competition is the whole world...when buying gets tougher, you have to be smarter and be aware of the current market value to get the best bang for your GA Bucks.  That buying strategy is 100% fine with me. Price has to be a consideration in the equation but not 100% of it.  So we have the whole world to compete against  including other true comic collectors and add the flippers and greed and welcome to the state of the GA/SA comic book market.

 Who is gonna take a hit over the next months...first the flippers, and then the pure investors are gonna be the first to bail. I don't feel sorry for them..they will just move on to options, gold, and bonds. So be it, you never belonged here anyway. Hopefully this will restore some price sanity in our market, make out GA/SA market more real and  stable and we can get back to collecting like we once were. Our GA/SA purchasing power should increase one true market value is realized and we are left alone.

 I do not think you statement was meant to insult me, but still I feel insulted as would any true Ga/SA comic book collector. To sell and buy back cheaper, while sound economic wise, is not the main reason we are here. There are bigger things in the true GA/SA comic book collectors universe , like when you see a GA book you have never seen before after 60 years of collecting, finding one you have wanted for the last 40 years, competing after 15 years a comic book run. Those feeling have nothing to do with you saving account  and never will. 

Axmen, to respond to you post . I submit this :

 No true GA/SA comic book collector would ever risk, selling a ultra rare GA/SA comic book for a profit with the chance of losing it forever just for the chance to buy it back cheaper. 

Axmen: I understand you question, it is a very logical one, but sometimes the heart wins out.

I agree with most points Mitch makes here, but there are lots of reasons to sell and purchase again later having nothing to do with investment and flipping books for profit.  For instance, high grade collectors may be looking for upgrade opportunities or perhaps a more desired grail requiring leverage.  This happens a lot with some true collectors.  

In my case, it’s quality over quantity.  Richard Evans (Mr Bedrock) rightfully described my collecting as oddball. Most collectors focus on a single character, artist or publisher, and try to finish runs.  Some work very hard achieving their aspired goals for many years, ...and I admire their “moxie” staying the course. But this type of collecting has never worked for me.  I’m a high grade collector with a passion for art and specific styles.  That’s how I collected as a kid and is still where my head's at today.

What fuels my passion are appealing covers and high grade irrespective of the publishing line. It allows me to move around within the collecting hobby without locking in on one specific thing.  That said, I do occasionally seek mini-runs within titles based on certain characters and featured artists.  I only mention these facts to make the point that there’s a wide variety of “true” collectors and the hobby's history just makes it more interesting.

IMO, there are milestones in comic collecting from the 1960’s ‘till now.  To briefly go over the highlights, comic fandom started in earnest in the early 60’s roughly around the time back issues dealers started running classified ads targeting collectors in major comic magazines.  Fanzines started connecting fans, then conventions.  By 1970 Bob Overstreet saw the need for an annual guide to track baseline values (50 years later the OSG remains a stable tool for tracking comic values).  Around this time large single owner collections started showing up, many with identifying marks of provenance that would establish pedigree status.  

Fast forward a few years and Mitch would become a milestone figure in the hobby by purchasing a copy of Action #1 for the then unheard of price of $1801.26 from his long time friend dealer Theo Holstein.  The reason this became a milestone event was that it caught the public’s attention.  Maybe it was a slow news day, but being interviewed by Tom Snyder on the then popular late night Tomorrow Show drew much wider attention to a hobby that had heretofore remained under the radar.  

As the 70’s drew to a close, big budget film productions of superhero films became a reality.  And while DC’s Superman films followed by Batman laid down markers for the success of comics for based cultural acceptance, it would take another twenty five years for comic action films to make the next leap to mega star status with the enduring success of the Marvel Universe of characters.  

In the meantime, collecting took it’s next important milestone as comic values soared to a point where verified grading was needed to provide confidence in comic investment risk.  In 1999, third party grading became an important tool for verifyication so that the collecting community could trust grades.  For all the criticism and missteps along the way independent grading & secure holders became the backbone of the collecting hobby.  

So, that’s where we are today.  There haven’t been many earth shattering milestones in the hobby in recent years.  There’ve been a few major pedigree collections discovered, witnessed signature collecting has turned into a hobby and more analytical criteria for weighing the risk factors of comic investment is now available, but generally the hobby really hasn’t changed much of late, ...just some of the players.  Which brings me to the last point.  While the Covid-19 pandemic will likely have an impact on the hobby similar to the mortgage/banking crisis in 2008, there’s no reason to believe the comics market won’t recover over time in sync with the general public’s concerns over it.

Sorry 'bout the comic history tutorial and the earlier post hiccup.  This is my waaaay too-much-coffee man post of the day! 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Cat-Man_America
Upgrade from coffee to ale.

[Math Teacher]

14 hours ago, Axmen said:

Hey Mmehdy and all you other GA oligarchs - wouldnt the best plan be to liquidate all GA NOW before the coming crash - then repurchase everything when prices bottom out?  Im serious, I figure all you 1% ers understand the ins and outs of making $$ better than me.  But I don't understand why you would hold through a crash and wait years for the prices to recover - same with stocks or anything really.

People often say, "You can't time the market." It's hard to know if prices have actually bottomed out, which means it's hard to know when to start buying. Also, if you sell during the crash rather than before it starts, you're losing money on your previous investments. I decided to not sell any investments once the market started its downward turn, because I won't have to touch my investments 8.5 years from now. Also, there's no guarantee that you will find the books you want with the grades you want. I would just let it be.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Joe Ankenbauer

[Math Teacher]

1 hour ago, KCOComics said:

It's very hard to predict what the market will do at any given time.  I follow the old expression "it's not about timing the market,  it's about time in the market"  

When the market started crashing,  the last thing on my mind was selling. I was buying. Short term,  I'll take some bumps,  but you've got to play the long game. 

As for comics, I think most people do it for the love of collecting. Its not an investment,  it's a hobby.  It may make sense to dump them now from a financial stand point,  but financial gain isn't why I collect. 

 

I fulfilled both my wife's and my Roth IRA accounts for the entire year on April 1st. Will the stock market continue to go down? Maybe. But sooner or later, it will go back up. And the cheaper-priced mutual funds I purchased on April 1 will show a bigger return on investment.

[MSGComics]

5 hours ago, Ryan. said:

Yup. Most of the assumptions in this thread, as well as the boards at large, are that the comic collecting market is definitely going to depress. I'm not so sure about that. People find comfort in their hobbies. 

As far as selling off books now before the expected crash in order to rebuy them cheaper, I've learned the hard way that selling off rare GA in order to buy again later is a lot easier said than done. If the market does indeed depress, books are likely to become even harder to find. 

I agree - there is stuff I hustled to find in the right condition.  I do not want to do it again . . . 

 

 

[batman_fan]

45 minutes ago, SSkufan said:

I agree - there is stuff I hustled to find in the right condition.  I do not want to do it again . . . 

 

 

I don't even want to talk about some of the stuff I had to do to get my collection.

[KCOComics]

5 hours ago, Cat-Man_America said:

 

Fast forward a few years and Mitch would become a milestone figure in the hobby by purchasing a copy of Action #1 for the then unheard of price of $1801.26 from his long time friend dealer Theo Holstein.  

Wait, wait wait,   Mmhedy is that Mitch? 

I actually read your story about AC1 on these forums somewhere years ago. And I remember thinking how incredible it was that an $1800 comic book purchase was newsworthy.  What's funny is,  I'm sure 99% of the people watching thought "what kind of fool spends that kind of $$ on children's comic books". 

Fast forward to today, and we regularly see people spend 5 figures on these forums. 

 

To tell a quick story, years ago a local comic shop bought a collection filled with silver age keys in Massachusetts. I got to the parking lot at 6am and waited outside on a cold winter's day for the shop to open at 10 so I could have first pick of the collection. As it turned out, that was totally unnecessary,  as only 1 other person showed up early. 

As me and that collector shivered in the cold together,  he told me about when he bought Action Comics 1. He had an opportunity to buy one for $50k.  He took out a line of credit against his house,  cleared out his life savings and got it.  

In retrospect, I guess you could call it a good bet.  That comic is worth 20xs what he paid for it today.  I'm too risk adverse.  The story made me queasy just listening to it, but I'm glad it worked out for him.  And he obviously recovered because he still had it. 

As an aside,  I walked out the door with an Xmen 1 that day! 

 

[bluechip]

The focus on keeping brand new books in mint condition boosted the sales of new books, which made subscriptions less palatable.   But if comics publishers had made a better effort to maintain subscription deliveries as a thing, there would be much less discussion now about whether the comics business can survive.

As for the collecting of actually rare and vintage cultural items, there will always be a desire for such things, unless and until society collapses to such a point that the value of your collectibles, or for that matter the value of virtually anything else in your portfolio (outside of shotguns, greenhouses and machines that pull water from the air) will be the least of your concerns. 

[fifties]

10 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

To sell and buy back cheaper

Selling short is a common strategy in the stock market.  I don't see it working, however, with rare collectibles.

 

[Axmen]

3 hours ago, KCOComics said:

Wait, wait wait,   Mmhedy is that Mitch? 

I actually read your story about AC1 on these forums somewhere years ago. And I remember thinking how incredible it was that an $1800 comic book purchase was newsworthy.  What's funny is,  I'm sure 99% of the people watching thought "what kind of fool spends that kind of $$ on children's comic books". 

Fast forward to today, and we regularly see people spend 5 figures on these forums.

 

That is the best comic story ever.