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Poll: bad idea or worst idea ever from Marvel?
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Started by Juno Beach,

161 posts in this topic

kav

kav

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Your example is "Caramba, y'all are everywhere."?  Really? 

nevermind.

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Not A Clone

Not A Clone

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4 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

The PRMC was founded in 1985 by Tipper Gore and Susan Baker -  the wife of Reagan's Secretary of Treasury James Baker.  It was not a liberal group.  It was a group started by concerned parents who overreacted to something they could not understand.  It didn't actually push for censorship, it pushed for warning labels.  Which the record companies did.  Historically, censorship of music and comics has been a conservative impulse, pushed by people who are overreacting to something they don't understand.  Tipper was definitely on the conservative side of that debate with James Baker's wife and the book burning types (the same folks who burned EC's in the 50s).  

The thing is this:  Most people are NOT always liberal or always conservative.  We tend to have opinions which can transcend the political spectrum.  While Tipper is generally liberal, the PRMC was a more conservative impulse on her part.

The PMRC settled for the stickers making both sides feel like they won something. Back then, the musicians certainly won. Those PMRC stickers just pointed the kids straight to the cds or cassettes that had all those dirty words, lol. Those Parental Guidance stickers still exist, but I believe it just says: Warning-Explicit Lyrics. I remember a few years later when "2 Live Crew" was getting arrested on stage in Florida for playing a song that they were told they weren't allowed to play. Hard to believe that was in the 90s. Definitely not in favor of anything like that.

My personal idea/solution for any books that aren't hitting decent sales numbers, but they honestly feel has potential, would be to do a monthly King Size type book, with several stories in it. Throw in a Squirrel Girl, Ms Marvel, Ghost-Spider. Now you have one book that is probably selling much much better than a bunch of books not selling at all. And I don't mean that for just the "SJW" books. Whatever makes the market healthier. 

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Not A Clone

Not A Clone

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1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

Yeah, I'm not seeing that.  Your jihad against "SJWs" seems more than a bit over the top to me.  What have SJWs done to you again?

They are doing it. They harassed DC to fire Sean Gordon Murphy because they didn't like the artist (who from all accounts is a piece of ) he chose for an independent comic. DC forced him to drop the project or lose his Batman book. They are doing this regularly. If they feel this is drek, why not just avoid it and not buy it/not support it? They have become the judge and jury for everyone. 

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kav

kav

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44 minutes ago, dupont2005 said:

Whenever Marvel or DC step into any topic they manage to people off on all sides of said topic

who got off over say incognito or criminal?  The topic there was make bad guy good guy.

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

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2 hours ago, Not A Clone said:

They are doing it. They harassed DC to fire Sean Gordon Murphy because they didn't like the artist (who from all accounts is a piece of ) he chose for an independent comic. DC forced him to drop the project or lose his Batman book. They are doing this regularly. If they feel this is drek, why not just avoid it and not buy it/not support it? They have become the judge and jury for everyone. 

Sean Gordon Murphy and Jim Lee both disputed this — and TenNapel walked back his comments because they were untrue. 
 

The enemy in this wasn’t DC Comics. 
 

You have someone who has taken a strong position against a group of people (wait, why isn’t THAT being SJW?) - and set himself up on Twitter to promote that position - get attacked back by the people he’s talking about. 
 

Apparently, when Angry White Males express their views, it’s normal - but when anyone else does its SJW and triggering?
 

If he was criticizing them for being black, it’d be world news - he’s criticizing them for being LGBT, so that’s still within the social norms of discrimination I guess?

DC never had a conversation with SGM about it - according to all three of them. SGM made that decision on his own. 

Sounds to me like a smart move. 

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sfcityduck

sfcityduck

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3 hours ago, Not A Clone said:

They are doing it. They harassed DC to fire Sean Gordon Murphy because they didn't like the artist (who from all accounts is a piece of ) he chose for an independent comic. DC forced him to drop the project or lose his Batman book. They are doing this regularly. If they feel this is drek, why not just avoid it and not buy it/not support it? They have become the judge and jury for everyone. 

Not sure what DC doing something has to do with Marvel.  But, in your example, I can't fault a corporation for not wanting to be associated with people of bad reputation.  We live in a "me to" world, and hanging with Harvey Weinstein is no longer cool.  Corporations have to protect their image, and if that means refusing to employ people who are engaged in activities that imperil the corporate reputation - so be it.  That's been the way corporations have acted for many many years.

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

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12 hours ago, Not A Clone said:

It does have a lot to do with it when these writers continue to openly bait readers that they know don't support their views and laugh about it openly.

What readers? The people who person_without_enough_empathy about Squirell Girl aren't the one's who read it.

And besides, what's WRONG with making fun of someone who preaches hate and non-acceptance of other people? If you saw someone yelling racist remarks at an old black woman and you told them to stop - and used you're physical presence from stopping them - and laughed at them, and said, "Pick on someone your own size".... that would make you bad?

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They are now dictating who other writers and artists are allowed to work with. Don't conform and they will get you fired. I've watched this going on for 5+ years from the outside, completely unaware of what was really happening.

If I go to my job and start preaching how homosexuality is bad and god is going to put a curse on these people, blah, blah, blah... I'm going to get told to knock it off or go work elsewhere. That's the whole world, dude. 

No one is dictating who they can and can't work with - these hate groups aren't hiding - but if YOU are a part of those groups and relate to those people - a business doesn't HAVE to hire you.

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I just knew that after Secret Wars, a large number of the top writers and artists left Marvel. Post Secret Wars, their was suddenly a ton of terrible artwork and terrible stories. I couldn't figure out how these new writers/artists were ever hired. Marvel always took pride in having the top artists. I wasn't looking at this from any political view. I hate politics. Both sides are usually wrong lol.  

This has been going on for decades. Great writers and artists get their start at Marvel - move on. Rinse and repeat.

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I have the entire 2 1/2 yr Jane Foster Mighty Thor run. I started buying Thor on a whim when God of Thunder came out. I kept buying it. I liked it. I don't think a lot of people that attacked that book in particular had followed the whole story,

Obviously not. Every person I ever talked to about it a) didn't even read the book and b) thought Thor had BECOME a woman. 

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but instead only knew that Thor had lost Mijolnir and had grown tired of the trend of writers to break the heroes. I will buy this whole run again in Omnibus form whenever that happens. But, what happened when Jane became Valkyrie? It was #97 last month with 18k sales. Why? The SJW crowd that was saying what a great character Jane Foster was, stopped buying her book. It's the same writer!

Same thing that happens to throughout all modern comics. Big start, taper off. Been going on for decades.

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I really don't think they do and after listening to a lot of their interviews, they are unable to go into depth about any character's background. I really doubt that they have bothered to read or understand any of Stan's work. When Stan wrote about an injustice or issue that he felt needed to be addressed, he did it in a thought provoking way that was wrapped within a good story. 

Compared to the Heroin issues in GLGA, the ASM drug stories are corny as hell. Stan's SJW work wasn't much different than anyone else who was actually out of touch with the subject matter. Regardless of what 'nostalgia' tries to convince you.

 

Edited by Chuck Gower
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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

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13 hours ago, Not A Clone said:

If all of the longtime readers (that Marvel seems to detest) walked away tomorrow, their publishing days would end the day after.

False. They have to continue to publish these properties (Copyright reasons - if someone else wants to go into it for him they can) AND they already have alternative plans for publishing as well (which is mostly scuttle butt, but a little critical reasoning...). 

But no. It would not end tomorrow.

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They are fishing for an audience that they will NEVER be able to reel in and keep their attention.

According to some people at Marvel they already are through the digital market. Whole different crowd than comes in the comic book shop.

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You say they aren't writing the comics for people that are longtime readers and that is obviously true.

No. That's not what I said. They aren't writing Squirrel Girl and such for the longtime 50+ year old readers (though they're welcome to join). 

There's still plenty of the same old 'someone dies!' and 'must save the earth' pap that's been repeated for decades. I started getting bored with that about the time I picked up the first issue of Heavy Metal off the newsstand at the grocery store in 1977.

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They blew their chances to draw in a new audience that loved the movies because the comics in the shops did not resemble the movies at all. My current weekly pull list dwindles. I've tried many of the Indy comics. I love Outcast, loved Paper Girls (yep), Wytches, and on and on. They aren't the same as the Capes & Spandex for me. I still pick up stuff from an Indy if I hear good things about it. Problem with Indy's is their release schedules are so unreliable. If I buy #4, I may have to wait 3 months for #5. Drives me crazy.

Tripe is always more timely.

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Your "Angry White Male" comments are way off base. Way to stereotype. I don't tell anyone in my life what they should or shouldn't believe, how they should look or anything like that. I'm actually VERY liberal. I don't like censorship. I grew up waving my fist at Tipper Gore (a  "liberal") and those angry mothers that wanted to sensor my Twisted Sister or (gasp) someone else's favorite, Madonna!  This was confusing, because the "liberal left" was trying to tell me what I could/couldn't listen to, while the "religious right wing " were holding CD/album/book burning bonfires. They sounded like the same thing  to me. The SJW thing is just as ridiculous. If you don't agree with them and give in to their every whim, they go bat- crazy. "Nazi/Racist" is their favorite label to throw around along with "Angry White Male". They are anything, but liberal. They are much closer to fascists. I merely want to see comics continue to come out that will sell. Why? I don't own a shop so why should I care? I like going to the shop (sometimes multiple times a week). I want to be able to continue to read comics for as long as possible. I realize there is a back-issue bin catalog that is larger than I would probably ever be able to get through available to me now. That's not the same as going to the LCS every week to pick up new comics. This has NOTHING to do with control (another SJW favorite to throw out if you dare to disagree), unless you somehow like watching something that you enjoy shoot itself in the foot after dousing the house with gasoline and lighting a match at the same time, all while thumbing their nose and laughing at your reaction to it happening. For the record, I like Spider-Gwen (aka Ghost-Spider), I own every issue, I think Ms Marvel is a good character (own a short box of her first 2 runs), I like Miles (own every issue). They sell like though. Look at the Feb 2020 sales on Comichron for ongoing titles:

No ongoing SJW titles in top 50. There are 4 characters from the Avengers movies here that can't break into the top 50 along with Miles and Spider-Gwen who were in a #1 animated movie. Popular characters still require good writing and artwork. Same as it's always been.

Top 50 means NOTHING today. The #50 book in January of 2020 sold 29,884 copies. That's NOTHING. 

And besides, we have no idea what digital sales are.

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50-Captain Marvel (30,579) - An average number by today's low standards

60-Captain America (27,929) - by Ta-Nehisi Coates. Down 7,000 from 2018 just prior to his run. 

67-Miles Morales (25,855) - I own every issue of Miles, not a good run and has lost 10k sales in 1 year. But I stick with it hoping it gets better.

76-Dr Strange (23,126)-by Mark Waid. Has written many great things, but burned so many readers with his attacks, that this one continues to fall.

84-Black Cat (21,725) - Art Germ covers are keeping this alive. It's just not good. As a Spidey fanatic it makes me sad that her first ongoing is so bad.

89-Nebula (20,663)- This is a 1st issue and it lands at #89! And this is who they have writing X-Men Children of the Atom. Vita Ayala is a terrible writer. SJW's insist she is great, but won't support her with their own money, lol.

97-Vakylrie Jane Foster (18,292) - I guess they don't love Jane as much as they said they did.

100-Ghost Spider (17,618) - Even a new code-name and including her into the 616 universe didn't pump sales. For some reason I still buy it thinking they will change.

105-Amazing Mary Jane(17,145) - Yanked her out of ASM for this junk and turned it into an ongoing because "It's a smash hit". Um, ok. ASM had a good thing going, before 2 Event crossovers and pulling her from ASM for this slowed the story to a slow walk. ASM is finally picking back up. 

113-Morbius(16,167) - Once again using Vita Ayala for another one of her "smash success" stories. 

123-Black Panther (14,639)-by Ta-Nehisi Coates. How is he allowed to continue writing this? I stopped reading half-way through this run. Snooze fest. 

139-Ms Marvel (12,823) - Yikes. 

"Chavez" doesn't even have a title anymore because they know she won't sell more than 4k copies. So instead they will just shoe-horn her into another title. 

--Not one of these is a "non-SJW" title or written by a non-SJW title as you claimed ("there are plenty of NON-SJW comics don't sell for Marvel either"). Do I hate all of these comics? Nope, didn't say I did. I still buy plenty of bad comics. But these "writers/artists" continuously pump out the WORST SELLING COMICS and will be the final nail in the industries coffin. And they will laugh about it when it's over because they couldn't care any less. 

Watch Vita Ayala describe what "X-Men:Children of the Atom" is going to be about. It's hilarious. Short version: It's about Powers and Punching and um...one of them has a TikTok and um...one of them can google anything instantly. :roflmao:That's not social commentary. That's just bad writing. 

Don't buy it then. Why do you care what someone else wants to read?

What is WRONG with Comic Book fans?

There's plenty of comics out there just for you, with horrible sales numbers... here's some to go save instead of worrying what someone else might enjoy (January 2020):

All under 33,000 copies a month - Fantastic Four, Deadpool...

Under 30,000 - Daredevil, Flash, Action Comics, Captain America, Hawkeye, Shazam, Conan the Barbarian, Ghost Rider, Doctor Doom...

Under 20,000 - Nightwing, Lois Lane (is that old school or SJW?), Morbius, Teen Titans, Aquaman, Suicide Squad...

Edited by Chuck Gower
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Not A Clone

Not A Clone

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2 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

Sean Gordon Murphy and Jim Lee both disputed this — and TenNapel walked back his comments because they were untrue. 
 

The enemy in this wasn’t DC Comics. 
 

You have someone who has taken a strong position against a group of people (wait, why isn’t THAT being SJW?) - and set himself up on Twitter to promote that position - get attacked back by the people he’s talking about. 
 

Apparently, when Angry White Males express their views, it’s normal - but when anyone else does its SJW and triggering?
 

If he was criticizing them for being black, it’d be world news - he’s criticizing them for being LGBT, so that’s still within the social norms of discrimination I guess?

DC never had a conversation with SGM about it - according to all three of them. SGM made that decision on his own. 

Sounds to me like a smart move. 

Way to ignore 99% and twist everything. You say they have a social cause? They don't. Look, I'm not changing your mind, you won't change my mind. I would love to be wrong about what they are doing, but I've seen it. Playing the whoa is me card and act completely innocent. It's total BS because as soon as they are called out they wanna play the race card and say stupid like Angry White Males. I'm out. Stay safe. (thumbsu

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kav

kav

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Not A Clone said:

Way to ignore 99% and twist everything. You say they have a social cause? They don't. Look, I'm not changing your mind, you won't change my mind. I would love to be wrong about what they are doing, but I've seen it. Playing the whoa is me card and act completely innocent. It's total BS because as soon as they are called out they wanna play the race card and say stupid like Angry White Males. I'm out. Stay safe. (thumbsu

yep

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Not A Clone

Not A Clone

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35 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

And where's the comic book store where people are proclaiming "Har dee har, Spider-Gwen has her own book! Where's old Moon Knight these days, la dee da!"

I've NEVER been in that shop. 

Been in plenty of them complaining about SJW's though.

See, you weren't paying attention or just chose to ignore what doesn't fit your agenda. Of course you haven't been in that shop. They don't buy this either. Not sure where MoonKnight came into this. Must have missed a something. Whatever. Jumping out of this thread. It's really not worth the heaache. Have a good day & may you and yours stay safe! Peace!

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