Sullivan7221 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 If this is in a previous post, I apologize. I was unable to fing anything anywhere in regards to this question. Thanks. So, as a aspiring artist who gave up the trade 15+ years ago, I have just started doing art again just last week during this quarantine period. So I want to do a Deadpool sketch cover, I want to make it a good companion piece to Wolverine Vol.7 #1 (2020) C2e2 (virgin yellow negative space). Anyways, so there isn't a "virgin" blank sketch variant for any Deadpool comics that I can find, so I'm attempting to make one of my own. My question is, will the removal of the title on a sketch cover significantly hurt its grade or will it be automatically deemed art?? (See photos for my example) I dont intend to have this particular copy graded, it has a spot on the back and 1 semi crushed corner. It's just a book I bought to play around with. I'm asking, so that in the future, if I am commissioned to do a cover for someone and they would like the same treatment to their sketch covers I am equipped with the appropriate information to provide them the truth. So that I can definitively say to them "If you choose this option tour book will automatically become...."So is it just art? Is it a 8 or worse instead of a 9.8 because of this? Thanks for any information. This is strictly for informational purposes for future books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullivan7221 Posted April 5, 2020 Author Share Posted April 5, 2020 Anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfingh Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 If it qualifies for Signature Series, then whatever the art does, it is ignored for grading purposes. Keys_Collector 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keys_Collector Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) On 4/8/2020 at 11:54 AM, seanfingh said: If it qualifies for Signature Series, then whatever the art does, it is ignored for grading purposes. What he said, any change to the cover if its done in an artistic manner will not drop the grade. A good example of this are the legal burning covers where the covers are actually burnt and manipulated. I even asked the question myself in this thread: Edited April 13, 2020 by Keys_Collector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron C. Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Many artists color over the title when it gets in the way of their sketch covers. Other artists (such as Natali Sanders) somehow sand/scuff off the ink and then paint over the empty space. Grade should not be dropped unless the book is damaged elsewhere in the process (spine, staples, corners, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Par2ch Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 The only thing that CGC will do that effects sketch covers is give books purple labels if the artist "touches up" areas that have no art on them. For example, some Marvel blanks had a red bottom border. I had an artist ding a corner and then use some red marker to touch up the area. Because of this CGC graded it a restored signature series book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELTA 62 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Interesting. So, what I think I am hearing is if it is part of the art then it shouldn't get downgraded unless it damages the book otherwise (like what Ron C. indicated) or the artist does some sort of obvious touch up work to the blank cover (like what Par2ch indicated). What about ink smudges that are created during the artist's creation? Is that not considered part of the artist's manner in creating said art? Maybe I am off but it seems like smudges happen (not always - but enough) during the artistic creation. I believe I have seen posts on the boards before referencing books getting downgraded because of smudges (for example: slight smudging on the back of the cover when the sketch is on the front). And I have my own stories I could share about it as well. How is ink smudging any worse for grading than cutting, burning, scraping, etc. a cover? I guess I am confused what's the line for grading art on a sketch cover - what if an artist accidentally over cuts a cover, over burns a cover, over scrapes a cover, etc. more than the intended art (and would CGC even know)? And is there a difference between pencil smudges vs ink smudges? What if the smudging happens on the same cover as the actual art - will that be downgraded too? What if you got the sketch colored and the colorist colors outside of the lines!?! I understand flaws on a book (i.e. bends, folds, color breaks, creases, etc.) may downgrade a book - but is an artist's smudge (during the creation of art) in the same category as those physical flaws? Again... interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keys_Collector Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 7 hours ago, DELTA 62 said: Interesting. So, what I think I am hearing is if it is part of the art then it shouldn't get downgraded unless it damages the book otherwise (like what Ron C. indicated) or the artist does some sort of obvious touch up work to the blank cover (like what Par2ch indicated). What about ink smudges that are created during the artist's creation? Is that not considered part of the artist's manner in creating said art? Maybe I am off but it seems like smudges happen (not always - but enough) during the artistic creation. I believe I have seen posts on the boards before referencing books getting downgraded because of smudges (for example: slight smudging on the back of the cover when the sketch is on the front). And I have my own stories I could share about it as well. How is ink smudging any worse for grading than cutting, burning, scraping, etc. a cover? I guess I am confused what's the line for grading art on a sketch cover - what if an artist accidentally over cuts a cover, over burns a cover, over scrapes a cover, etc. more than the intended art (and would CGC even know)? And is there a difference between pencil smudges vs ink smudges? What if the smudging happens on the same cover as the actual art - will that be downgraded too? What if you got the sketch colored and the colorist colors outside of the lines!?! I understand flaws on a book (i.e. bends, folds, color breaks, creases, etc.) may downgrade a book - but is an artist's smudge (during the creation of art) in the same category as those physical flaws? Again... interesting... Smudging is not a piece of the art. Anything attached to the actual artwork is not counted. If an artist mishandles a book and leaves smudges then it will get docked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELTA 62 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Keys_Collector said: Smudging is not a piece of the art. Anything attached to the actual artwork is not counted. If an artist mishandles a book and leaves smudges then it will get docked. Oh I know it gets docked! I guess my point is should it? It doesn't create any of the flaws (i.e. bends, folds, creases, etc.) that should get a book downgraded. I am not an artist but I suspect smudges can & does happen as part of the artist's creation. So I am not sure that I would agree that it is necessarily considered mishandling on the artist's part. Can it be - yes. Is it always - I would guess not but I would need an artist to help confirm. I can't imagine the creation of art is flawless. We've seen covers (not blanks) where artists will black out sections of the cover (i.e. intentional smudging?) to then do a quick remark in that spot. And apparently that is ok because it is part of the art. But if an artists creates art on a blank and unintentionally creates a smudge - that is not ok. What if one was getting a signature from a creator for a Signature Series book and the creator slightly smudges their autograph - does that get downgraded too? I don't think it does. But I could be wrong. Again... it is all interesting. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keys_Collector Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, DELTA 62 said: Oh I know it gets docked! I guess my point is should it? It doesn't create any of the flaws (i.e. bends, folds, creases, etc.) that should get a book downgraded. I am not an artist but I suspect smudges can & does happen as part of the artist's creation. So I am not sure that I would agree that it is necessarily considered mishandling on the artist's part. Can it be - yes. Is it always - I would guess not but I would need an artist to help confirm. I can't imagine the creation of art is flawless. We've seen covers (not blanks) where artists will black out sections of the cover (i.e. intentional smudging?) to then do a quick remark in that spot. And apparently that is ok because it is part of the art. But if an artists creates art on a blank and unintentionally creates a smudge - that is not ok. What if one was getting a signature from a creator for a Signature Series book and the creator slightly smudges their autograph - does that get downgraded too? I don't think it does. But I could be wrong. Again... it is all interesting. That's all. I understand your point although fingerprints from mishandling a book are usually jotted down in graders notes and can have an effect on a grade....the same way a careless artist leaves smudges on a book. So a mishandled book should be docked whether it is mishandled at any point prior to being submitted. An artist who is mindful of a grade will not mishandle a book and cause smudges/fingerprints. And yes, those blacked/grayed out sections for a cover sketch are absolutely awful but in the end, a part of the background to the art. Smudging a signature is different because again, it is attached to the signature. @ivdyer has the best collection of sketch covers i've ever seen so I would think that he would be able to clarify any information you are curious about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivdyer Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Keys_Collector said: I understand your point although fingerprints from mishandling a book are usually jotted down in graders notes and can have an effect on a grade....the same way a careless artist leaves smudges on a book. So a mishandled book should be docked whether it is mishandled at any point prior to being submitted. An artist who is mindful of a grade will not mishandle a book and cause smudges/fingerprints. And yes, those blacked/grayed out sections for a cover sketch are absolutely awful but in the end, a part of the background to the art. Smudging a signature is different because again, it is attached to the signature. @ivdyer has the best collection of sketch covers i've ever seen so I would think that he would be able to clarify any information you are curious about. I appreciate the compliment. In my experience smudges, etc...not related to the larger art piece will constitute a grade deduction. Smudges located near the art are ok to a degree but smudges located on the back when the art is on front are not. You most definitely can get a grade deduction for artists, celebrities, etc...smearing or smudging their autograph. I have been on the receiving end of grade deductions for that specific reason identified by grader notes. Keys_Collector 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomEwan Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 I have always found it interesting that date stamps on comics don't count against the grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELTA 62 Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 6 hours ago, PhantomEwan said: I have always found it interesting that date stamps on comics don't count against the grade. It's cause they aren't smudged... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron C. Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 Here is one example (not a sketch cover, but a remark). When Jim Starlin signed this Epic Illustrated #3, he inadvertently smudged the cover below the signature. He added a remark to partially cover the smudge, but the grade was still affected..... I believe this is what was mentioned in the notes (I will check). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
