IN THE ERA OF COVID19...BUYER'S MARKET? 9 9

[littledoom]

17 hours ago, Myowncollector said:

Way to go. The postage savings will pay for the printer.

I'm always efficient with the money spent on postage .. but the sales w pay for a printer hah

[Topnotchman]

5 hours ago, 1Cool said:

Why do they use the often time confusing 20% buyer fee if it's understood the buyer incorporates the 20% into their bid amount.  Wouldn't it just be simpler to just take a 20% fee from the total bid amount or are they gaining a small amount due to a small minority of people not taking the 20% into account during a bidding war?  The 20% buyers fee may just be a carry over from a time long gone but it just seems confusing with little gained.

I feel it's an advantage to make more money off of the consignor.  If someone wanted to settle there fathers comic book estate and Heritage says we can lower our seller fee from 15% to 10%.  That sounds like a fair deal to someone not familiar with contracts or auctions house premiums.  Your consignment agreement that you sign, will include the buyers premium in fine print.   Its possible for someone to sign the agreement without reading and comprehending every single line in the statement.  When they send you your check the invoice has the final hammer price, minus your seller commission rate.  It does not say anywhere on your Consignor Prices Realized statement about a buyers premium.      

[lou_fine]

On 5/31/2020 at 4:57 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

They better bend over backwards to please me the seller if they're taking 20 %

Hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but if the seller hasn't done any negotiating, then Heritage is going to take way more than 20% of the final price of the book.  

It's become quite clear to me that some board members here should not be bidding for any books because they simply do not comprehend simple Grade 5 level arithmetic.  

Let's take a very simple example and say that a book hammers on Heritage for $1,000.  Now, anybody that can read should clearly know that this really means they will be paying $1,200 (i.e. $1,000 plus 20%), because it very clearly tells you this right on the bidding page.  Now, if you are the seller who has not bothered to negotiate, this DOES NOT mean that you will be receiving the $1,000 hammer price from Heritage.  It actually means that you will be receiving only $850 from Heritage because you still have to take off the 15% Seller's Premium that Heritage will be charging you to sell your book for you, once again assuming you have not negotiated anything in advance with them.    

Now, you'll wish that you had to pay Heritage only 20%, because in actual fact, you really had to pay Heritage $350 (i.e. the $1,200 real price the book sold for less the $200 Buyer's Premium and then less a further $150 for the Seller's Premium) or 29.2% of the top line $1,200 which the book actually sold for.     

[lou_fine]

12 hours ago, Mr. Burt Hutt said:

12 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

14 hours ago, Mr. Burt Hutt said:

How does this work, since the fees are not included in the final bid/BIN price? 

I'm pretty sure they are tho

They aren't. Have you never won an auction on Ebay? 

Of course they are.   

Have you never sold anything on eBay.  

Well, guess what.........if something sells for $1,000 on eBay as the final bid/BIN price, you as the seller will NOT be receiving $1,000 for your sale.   

That's because the $1,000 final bid/BIN price ALREADY INCLUDES the fees in there.  

 

[Hollywood1892]

5 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but if the seller hasn't done any negotiating, then Heritage is going to take way more than 20% of the final price of the book.  

It's become quite clear to me that some board members here should not be bidding for any books because they simply do not comprehend simple Grade 5 level arithmetic.  

Let's take a very simple example and say that a book hammers on Heritage for $1,000.  Now, anybody that can read should clearly know that this really means they will be paying $1,200 (i.e. $1,000 plus 20%), because it very clearly tells you this right on the bidding page.  Now, if you are the seller who has not bothered to negotiate, this DOES NOT mean that you will be receiving the $1,000 hammer price from Heritage.  It actually means that you will be receiving only $850 from Heritage because you still have to take off the 15% Seller's Premium that Heritage will be charging you to sell your book for you, once again assuming you have not negotiated anything in advance with them.    

Now, you'll wish that you had to pay Heritage only 20%, because in actual fact, you really had to pay Heritage $350 (i.e. the $1,200 real price the book sold for less the $200 Buyer's Premium and then less a further $150 for the Seller's Premium) or 29.2% of the top line $1,200 which the book actually sold for.     

So in all actuality Heritage is making 35% outside of the 'comic book'?

Man oh man!

That would be like Pablo's pilot taking 35% per trip.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

4 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

So in all actuality Heritage is making 35% outside of the 'comic book'?

Man oh man!

That would be like Pablo's pilot taking 35% per trip.

This is what I was saying pages back from the get go.

People are banging on about how the 20% BP is not a bad thing because it's just a 'consignment fee' like anywhere else, whilst overlooking the fact that heritage are also charging fees to the seller on the sale. So the actual BP is a tariff on the buyer.

Double Bubble....greed....tax....call it what you will, it is a practice that needs to be stopped.

Or not, I never buy, and have never bought from them on principle.

[Hollywood1892]

Just now, G G ® said:

This is what I was saying pages back from the get go.

People are banging on about how the 20% BP is not a bad thing because it's just a 'consignment fee' like anywhere else, whilst overlooking the fact that heritage are also charging fees to the seller on the sale. So the actual BP is a tariff on the buyer.

Double Bubble....greed....tax....call it what you will, it is a practice that needs to be stopped.

Or not, I never buy, and have never bought from them on principle.

It needs to be stopped...and I haven't bought from them either

I bought a book from MyComicsShop, it was $849 and buyers premium was $25.47, which is if my math is correct 3%, not bad at all for the buyer

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

Just now, Hollywood1892 said:

It needs to be stopped...and I haven't bought from them either

I bought a book from MyComicsShop, it was $849 and buyers premium was $25.47, which is if my math is correct 3%, not bad at all for the buyer

Yep, I can live with that. Much more reasonable and fair. I've done business with them many, many times.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

Actually this whole issue about BP at Heritage is just the tip of the iceberg.

No-one wants to talk about the elephant in the room, shill bidding.

Shill bidding, outlawed almost everywhere and illegal most everywhere is legal (unless I am mistaken) in the state of Texas.

So how do you know when you partake in what appears to be a level playing field auction, that you are not being shilled up?

Answer:

You don't.

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/2009/09/lifting_the_veil_at_heritage_a.html

[littledoom]

This buyer's premium bs needs to be a new thread

[alexgross.com]

3 hours ago, G G ® said:

Actually this whole issue about BP at Heritage is just the tip of the iceberg.

No-one wants to talk about the elephant in the room, shill bidding.

Shill bidding, outlawed almost everywhere and illegal most everywhere is legal (unless I am mistaken) in the state of Texas.

So how do you know when you partake in what appears to be a level playing field auction, that you are not being shilled up?

Answer:

You don't.

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/2009/09/lifting_the_veil_at_heritage_a.html

are you saying that 66k for an af15 thats worth about 35k is not a legit auction result? lol. 

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

46 minutes ago, littledoom said:

This buyer's premium bs needs to be a new thread

Bold statement from someone who's been here 5 minutes.

[littledoom]

14 minutes ago, G G ® said:

Bold statement from someone who's been here 5 minutes.

forgot I was even following era of covid 19 buyers market thread lol.. minus well change the name of the thread

[Hollywood1892]

It's a dark world of dru...comic dealing!

[lou_fine]

5 hours ago, G G ® said:

People are banging on about how the 20% BP is not a bad thing because it's just a 'consignment fee' like anywhere else, whilst overlooking the fact that heritage are also charging fees to the seller on the sale. So the actual BP is a tariff on the buyer.

NO, because any rational bidder who can read already clearly knows about the 20% BP and will not bid any more than what they would normally want to pay for the book on any other auction website by simply incorporating this 20% BP into their bid price from the get go.  

If anything at all, the BP is really an extra tariff on the seller beause he is the one that will actually be paying for this BP since he will not be receiving this portion of the payment as it will be taken by Heritage. 

Of course, this BP can apparently be negotiated away so that the consigner can keep it depending upon the quality of their consignments in conjunction with their negotiating skills.  

 

[Sweet Lou 14]

27 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

NO, because any rational bidder who can read already clearly knows about the 20% BP and will not bid any more than what they would normally want to pay for the book on any other auction website by simply incorporating this 20% BP into their bid price from the get go.  

If anything at all, the BP is really an extra tariff on the seller beause he is the one that will actually be paying for this BP since he will not be receiving this portion of the payment as it will be taken by Heritage. 

Of course, this BP can apparently be negotiated away so that the consigner can keep it depending upon the quality of their consignments in conjunction with their negotiating skills.  

 

This is exactly right.

If the buyer wins with a $1,000 bid, they will pay $1,200 including BP.  Any smart buyer knows that they are really bidding $1,200 not $1,000.  But the seller gets no part of that extra $200.  They are the ones being shortchanged in all of this. 

[Motor City Rob]

6 hours ago, G G ® said:

Actually this whole issue about BP at Heritage is just the tip of the iceberg.

No-one wants to talk about the elephant in the room, shill bidding.

Shill bidding, outlawed almost everywhere and illegal most everywhere is legal (unless I am mistaken) in the state of Texas.

So how do you know when you partake in what appears to be a level playing field auction, that you are not being shilled up?

Answer:

You don't.

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/2009/09/lifting_the_veil_at_heritage_a.html

Is shill bidding really an issue if you are only bidding as much as you are willing to pay for a book? Buyers need to stop succumbing to the pressure of adding to their high bid. Dont do it! Establish your max bid and leave it at that. Buyers that cant control their bidding are a bigger issue, in my opinion. Shill bidding would never be an issue if buyers followed this simple rule.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

NO, because any rational bidder who can read already clearly knows about the 20% BP and will not bid any more than what they would normally want to pay for the book on any other auction website by simply incorporating this 20% BP into their bid price from the get go.  

If anything at all, the BP is really an extra tariff on the seller beause he is the one that will actually be paying for this BP since he will not be receiving this portion of the payment as it will be taken by Heritage. 

Of course, this BP can apparently be negotiated away so that the consigner can keep it depending upon the quality of their consignments in conjunction with their negotiating skills.  

 

 

1 hour ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

This is exactly right.

If the buyer wins with a $1,000 bid, they will pay $1,200 including BP.  Any smart buyer knows that they are really bidding $1,200 not $1,000.  But the seller gets no part of that extra $200.  They are the ones being shortchanged in all of this. 

I know all about the logistics of bidding and allowing for the extra 20% believe me, but you guys are completely missing the point.

The point being that Heritage are already charging the seller fees on the auction. I believe someone mentioned it as 15%. So an extra 20% tacked on, and described by Heritage themselves as a 'Buyer's premium' can only be taken as a tax on the Buyer.

It's not rocket science. Regardless whether you are daft enough or not to be prepared to 'factor it in' or take the hit, it shouldn't be there.

They are already getting their cut from the seller.

A buyer should be able to buy with impunity. 

Bring a buyer's premium into ebay, and see how much it will affect sales.

Answer: Substancially.

[lou_fine]

16 minutes ago, G G ® said:

A buyer should be able to buy with impunity. 

I am not aware of any auction site, whether it be eBay, Heritage, CC, etc, that does not allow you to bid and buy without inpunity.    

[Motor City Rob]

5 minutes ago, G G ® said:

 

I know all about the logistics of bidding and allowing for the extra 20% believe me, but you guys are completely missing the point.

The point being that Heritage are already charging the seller fees on the auction. I believe someone mentioned it as 15%. So an extra 20% tacked on, and described by Heritage themselves as a 'Buyer's premium' can only be taken as a tax on the Buyer.

It's not rocket science. Regardless whether you are daft enough or not to be prepared to 'factor it in' or take the hit, it shouldn't be there.

They are already getting their cut from the seller.

A buyer should be able to buy with impunity. 

Bring a buyer's premium into ebay, and see how much it will affect sales.

Answer: Substancially.

I still believe that as long as you are only bidding as much as you're willing to pay, including all fees and premiums...what's that problem??? Companies can charge whatever they want. If people think it's too much, don't buy from them. It's really thay simple. Obviously people continue to buy from them, so the premiums will continue until people stop. I don't blame Heritage at all.