Spine Stress Lines 2 2

[Bluefear]

Do you only look for spine stress lines from the front and back of the comic? Example: the book is laying flat on a surface.

Or should you take into account stress lines that can be viewed while holding the book horizontally? Example: the book's staples are in view. The stress lines are not visible on the front and back cover of the book, but are only visible when viewed from the side.

[Lightning55]

Spine stress lines, by definition, are indicators that the spine has been stressed.  Meaning that the spine has been caused to bend in a way that is contra to its natural fold.  It is like a ballistic mark.  If it doesn't break color, that is better than one that does.  If it is small, that is better than one that is large.  If it draws your attention, that is worse than one that is discreet.  I would think that you have to evaluate ALL spine stress lines that are presented.  Some will be weighed more than others, and left up to the judgement of the grader.  I don't think there is a set formula such as 3 front stress lines = 5 back stress lines = 8 tiny ticks along the fold.  It's a sum of the defects situation.

[Bluefear]

Thank you for the reply.

Do you believe spin stress lines that do not break color, that are not visible from the front and back cover, and are visible only if look at the book horizontally, would stop you from receiving a 9.8?

[Lightning55]

I think a comic as you describe, if no other grading considerations, should still have a decent chance to get a 9.8.  I have had comics come back 9.8 that had visible stress lines, not color breaking, maybe 1-3 lines.  The ones you describe seem less obtrusive than those commonly found on the front a comic, easily seen. 

Even if it comes back less than 9.8, you still can't positively attribute it to the stress lines, unless there are grader notes that state that explicitly.  And I have never gotten a comic back over 9.4 that had grader notes.  I am guessing, but it may be even lower than that.  You get the comic back, 9.6, 9.8, dare I say 9.9, and have no specific idea why it isn't a 10.0.  I don't mean it should be a 10.0, but why don't we know WHY it isn't?  It's like they want to explain why it's a 6.5, but not tell you why it's not a 10.0.  There must be SOMETHING wrong with it - they graded it 9.6.  But what is it??? 

Doesn't seem like it would be hard to add notes.  Maybe take another 60 seconds.  Or they could have auto-text that if you hit F6 it adds "spine stress lines break color".  There you go, 1.8 seconds to do it.  Mystery solved.  But no, the secrets are sealed forever in the slab and the grader takes them to his/her grave.

[The Lions Den]

31 minutes ago, Bluefear said:

Thank you for the reply.

Do you believe spin stress lines that do not break color, that are not visible from the front and back cover, and are visible only if look at the book horizontally, would stop you from receiving a 9.8?

CGC graders are trained to look at the books from different angles. Generally speaking, the stress lines are evaluated by quantity, the length, the depth and the severity. And even one noticeable stress line can keep a book out of 9.8...

[The Lions Den]

9 minutes ago, Lightning55 said:

Doesn't seem like it would be hard to add notes.  Maybe take another 60 seconds.  Or they could have auto-text that if you hit F6 it adds "spine stress lines break color".  There you go, 1.8 seconds to do it.  Mystery solved.  But no, the secrets are sealed forever in the slab and the grader takes them to his/her grave.

I can certainly understand your concerns, but please bear in mind that CGC is a production oriented facility. And they do have a wide variety of available defects they can select from a drop down menu, so you're right, it doesn't take very long. But as trivial as it sounds, those extra seconds add up over the course of a day...and the emphasis is always on getting books out the door.   

[Lightning55]

6 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

But as trivial as it sounds, those extra seconds add up over the course of a day...and the emphasis is always on getting books out the door.   

I can see that, but it is always a balance of quality vs. quantity (or speed).  Grocery baggers could go faster if they throw all your stuff in haphazardly, but your bread is crushed.  We all appreciate it when the car mechanic takes a moment to explain why he had to replace the rotors and calipers in addition to just the pads (ouch).  The newspaper gets delivered on time, but thrown in the bushes.  We have to wait a long time to get our books back, and no way to vet the grade given.  I guess it's a matter of what we will accept, before seeking out alternatives.

[The Lions Den]

1 hour ago, Lightning55 said:

I can see that, but it is always a balance of quality vs. quantity (or speed).  Grocery baggers could go faster if they throw all your stuff in haphazardly, but your bread is crushed.  We all appreciate it when the car mechanic takes a moment to explain why he had to replace the rotors and calipers in addition to just the pads (ouch).  The newspaper gets delivered on time, but thrown in the bushes.  We have to wait a long time to get our books back, and no way to vet the grade given.  I guess it's a matter of what we will accept, before seeking out alternatives.

I understand and appreciate your sentiment; you make some very good points.

It can be frustrating to receive a certain grade and not fully understand why. I can tell you that when you get into the higher grades, minor flaws such as tiny spine stress lines, light finger dents or minor corner bends can make a huge difference in what the final grade will be...

[Lightning55]

And it works both ways, up and down.  I had a comic submitted recently that in my mind was an 8.5, would struggle to get a 9.0.  Came back 9.6.  Another I had figured at a high 9, came back 9.0, no explanation.  Would love to know why.  A third I figured 9.2, came back 9.8. 

The consistency is not there, in my opinion.  I'm no expert, but I have been collecting and grading comics since the late 70's.  When someone asks if they can get a 9.8 with some minor non-colorbreaking stress lines, I say sure, it's possible.  Because I have had much, much worse come back 9.8.

[joeypost]

7 hours ago, Lightning55 said:

And it works both ways, up and down.  I had a comic submitted recently that in my mind was an 8.5, would struggle to get a 9.0.  Came back 9.6.  Another I had figured at a high 9, came back 9.0, no explanation.  Would love to know why.  A third I figured 9.2, came back 9.8. 

The consistency is not there, in my opinion.  I'm no expert, but I have been collecting and grading comics since the late 70's.  When someone asks if they can get a 9.8 with some minor non-colorbreaking stress lines, I say sure, it's possible.  Because I have had much, much worse come back 9.8.

I would agree with this statement. Lately there has been no rhyme or reason on grades. Books that fail a 9.6 pre-screen one week come back 9.8's a month later. 

[TwowolvesMatt]

Hello. I just received my first comics back from grading, and was surprised that books I thought would break 9.2 or higher came back 5.5/6.5 because of stress lines. I didn't know these were a thing. I'm sending several books back to be pressed, for creases, and wondered if pressing helps with stress lines.

Thanks.

[The Lions Den]

On 5/19/2022 at 6:47 AM, TwowolvesMatt said:

Hello. I just received my first comics back from grading, and was surprised that books I thought would break 9.2 or higher came back 5.5/6.5 because of stress lines. I didn't know these were a thing. I'm sending several books back to be pressed, for creases, and wondered if pressing helps with stress lines.

Thanks.

Yes, stress lines are "a thing". And pressing can reduce them, but if they break color they're still going to affect the grade. Good luck!  

[jas1vans]

On 5/19/2022 at 5:47 AM, TwowolvesMatt said:

Hello. I just received my first comics back from grading, and was surprised that books I thought would break 9.2 or higher came back 5.5/6.5 because of stress lines. I didn't know these were a thing. I'm sending several books back to be pressed, for creases, and wondered if pressing helps with stress lines.

Thanks.

If you're interested, you might want to post pics of any books you are thinking of having graded here: https://boards.cgccomics.com/forum/42-hey-buddy-can-you-spare-a-grade/

You'll get some good sets of eyes on the book to point out any flaws and it's potential grade before you send the book in.

[lostboys]

Its getting more frustrating than ever to buy 9.8 slabs by looking at the provided pics on Ebay. 

There are so many flawed 9.8s these days.

When I buy a 9.8, i dont want to see any flaws. 

Ive returned more 9.8s with color breaks and corner bends in 2022 than all of 2020 and 2021 combined and this is why I only buy from sellers that accept returns.

It boggles my mind...I have 9.4s in my collection that look MUCH better than some 9.8s.

[lostboys]

On 5/19/2022 at 4:30 PM, HellYeah said:

Isn't that called a 10.0? 

A 9.9 is a unicorn, nevermind a 10.

I have 9.8s that are pristine so I'm not sure how anyone stands a chance at ever getting a 9.9 or 10.

 

[Lightning55]

On 5/19/2022 at 3:27 PM, lostboys said:

When I buy a 9.8, i dont want to see any flaws. 

On 5/19/2022 at 4:30 PM, HellYeah said:

Isn't that called a 10.0? 

 

If someone returns a  9.8 to me because they don't agree with the CGC grade, that's fine, and also an automatic block for any future sales.  Or any certified grade dispute, doesn't have to be a 9.8.  One to a customer.

[Lightning55]

On 5/19/2022 at 6:47 AM, TwowolvesMatt said:

Hello. I just received my first comics back from grading, and was surprised that books I thought would break 9.2 or higher came back 5.5/6.5 because of stress lines. I didn't know these were a thing. I'm sending several books back to be pressed, for creases, and wondered if pressing helps with stress lines.

Thanks.

Thank you for searching for a relevant thread instead of starting a new one.  Very refreshing.

Classy move for a newbie.  Welcome to the boards!

[IndomitableBat]

I have a 9.8 graded in 2010 with 5+ non-color breaking spine stress lines. You can't really see the spine stress with the naked eye. Here are the grader notes: "Bottom Spine Wear, Spine Lite Stress Lines".  I do not believe this book would get a 9.8 today.  I want to send it in to get the updated slab but I'm afraid the grade would be lowered.  

[Lightning55]

In general CGC has stated that they won't change the grade on a reholder order unless they suspect the case was damaged since first graded. Like if the case is cracked, signs that it was dropped, or shaken comic syndrome (SCS) showing physical damage to the comic itself. That would be overhanging edges curled over, corners crunched, etc.

But there is also the long-standing motto, "Never crack a 9.8". I'm a staunch believer in that. You got a 9.8, don't risk going backwards. 

[IndomitableBat]

On 9/24/2023 at 6:39 PM, Lightning55 said:

In general CGC has stated that they won't change the grade on a reholder order unless they suspect the case was damaged since first graded. Like if the case is cracked, signs that it was dropped, or shaken comic syndrome (SCS) showing physical damage to the comic itself. That would be overhanging edges curled over, corners crunched, etc.

But there is also the long-standing motto, "Never crack a 9.8". I'm a staunch believer in that. You got a 9.8, don't risk going backwards. 

Yeah, I agree.  But it would look so much nicer in the new slab....