Advice needed for a ebay problem - I'm the seller 3 3

[This is Who We Are]

I tend to agree with most of the others.  Had he inspected the item more closely at the outset and called out the CT, then a refund would appear to be in order.  He instead claimed ownership of the comic by engaging in a business transaction with CGC.  Now if he wants to sell you his comic, assuming you want to buy it, then that’s a completely different conversation   Notice I don’t see you goin back to the guy who sold it to you.. because you recognize how absurd this would be

Edited April 12, 2020 by This is Who We Are

[fastballspecial]

1 hour ago, kav said:

Do not refund anything, and block.  You did nothing wrong here.  Buying raws always comes with the possibility of CT.  If he wants a no CT guarantee, buy a slabbed book.
Tired of ppl buying raws but still want the guarantees of a slab.

This

Edited April 12, 2020 by fastballspecial

[Lightning55]

2 minutes ago, kav said:

why should he agree to recieve a book that has been damaged after he sold it tho?

He shouldn't have to, in a perfect world.  But I know from experience what he is potentially up against.  Being right will have no effect.  EBay, PayPal, and the credit card companies will expect the seller to cover all problems.  They just force you to.  They control the funds.  Once they charge you back, it's like moving a mountain. 

Better to do a little back-and-forth with the buyer to see if something can be worked out.  Before the piano lands on your head form the 10th floor window.

[fastballspecial]

1 hour ago, kav said:

1 hour ago, vheflin said:

Would the buyer give you an extra 40% of sale price if book had come back blue label 6.5?

bingo

[kav]

2 minutes ago, Lightning55 said:

He shouldn't have to, in a perfect world.  But I know from experience what he is potentially up against.  Being right will have no effect.  EBay, PayPal, and the credit card companies will expect the seller to cover all problems.  They just force you to.  They control the funds.  Once they charge you back, it's like moving a mountain. 

Better to do a little back-and-forth with the buyer to see if something can be worked out.  Before the piano lands on your head form the 10th floor window.

Not true.  @Buzzetta  has demonstrated over and over that ebay/paypal can and will side with a seller who is in the right.

[fastballspecial]

A lot of issues at play here.

You cant be responsible for a books months later that the buyer could have done anything too. That's insane.
Believe it or not there are people here who think you should be. 

Full refund/return or nothing. Any other policy and your get screwed. Partial refunds are the road to hell I think. 

Lastly Chargebacks. Everyone here seems to think its automatic you lose a chargeback. That is ridiculous.
In my 18+ years selling on ebay I have had 3 or 4. I won all 4 . Most of the time its buyer stupidity. They file at the last minute
or their wives make them file. One guy filed 3 times in a period of 2 weeks(2 months after buying.) Other times all you have
to do is provide your documentation. I even filed fraud charges on a guy years ago and that helped me when he tried
to file a chargeback on a $100 book. That being said yes work it out as best you can with the buyer.  This just happened
here with a Hulk 181 last month to a boardie.

Also very important and buyers need to realize this as well. As a seller I have banned buyers based on the questions they give
me in Best offers. I just don't need the headache and that's exactly what I tell them. I was going back and forth thru Best offer
with the buyer. I was the cheapest price by grade by $5-10 I think, and the buyer was still trying to get me to come down another $15-$20
(My list price was $64.00 I think) which was well under what a NM copy was selling for. 

We had a disagreement on the price as we countered. Fair enough I get that I pointed out the grade and price different and he disagreed no problem.
But then he told he felt like he was already overpaying at his original offer price.

I stopped the transaction right there because it told me no matter what price we agreed on this guy felt he was overpaying. So unless
my book was 2 grades higher I was going to get hosed.  Sometimes protecting your reputation is 
more important then a sell is. At least I think so.
 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by fastballspecial

[kav]

4 minutes ago, fastballspecial said:

A lot of issues at play here.

You cant be responsible for a books months later that the buyer could have done anything too. That's insane.
Believe it or not there are people here who think you should be. 

Full refund/return or nothing. Any other police and your get screwed. Partial refunds are the road to hell I think. 

Lastly Chargebacks. Everyone here seems to think its automatic you lose a chargeback. That is ridiculous.
In my 18+ years selling on ebay I have had 3 or 4. I won all 4 . Most of the time its buyer stupidity. They file at the last minute
or their wives make them file. One guy filed 3 times in a period of 2 weeks(2 months after buying.) Other times all you have
to do is provide your documentation. I even filed fraud charges on a guy years ago and that helped me when he tried
to file a chargeback on a $100 book. That being said yes work it out as best you can with the buyer.  This just happened
here with a Hulk 181 last month to a boardie.

Also very important and buyers need to realize this as well. As a seller I have banned buyers based on the questions they give
me in Best offers. I just don't need the headache and that's exactly what I tell them. I was going back and forth thru Best offer
with the buyer. I was the cheapest price by grade by $5-10 I think, and the buyer was still trying to get me to come down another $10.
(My list price was $64.00 I think) which was well under what a NM copy was selling for.

We had a disagreement on the price as we countered. Fair enough I get that I pointed out the grade and price different and he disagreed no problem.
But then he told he felt like he was already overpaying at his original offer price.

I stopped the transaction right there because it told me no matter what price we agreed on this guy felt he was overpaying. So unless
my book was 2 grades higher I was going to get hosed.

 

 

Luckily most of the time problem buyers that send offers or send questions show their hand as problem buyers like this and you can nip it right in the bud and block them from future shenanigans.

[Chaz G.]

OP: please post buyer's ebay user name for blockage. Thanks!

[bronze_rules]

I don't sell on ebay, but I do always wonder, how do you know an unscrupulous buyer doesn't just swap the book out for a lower grade raw and have you foot the bill?

If i was a seller, I'd be taking serious evidence before shipping (and even then, I'd worry). I feel for OP (assuming everything told is legit) and sure seems to me that something is amiss.

I wonder, what was the seller's feedback rating?

Edited April 12, 2020 by bronze_rules

[jokiing]

1 hour ago, kav said:

This is yet another in the countless reasons why you shouldnt put a grade in your listings.  Avoids all the "You said this book was a-"
Others have said they would never buy a book if some grade wasnt given but I have experienced no problems with selling without giving grade.  Good pics and description seems to work fine.
Maybe the ppl that demand a listed grade are the ones you want to avoid anyway-"you said this was a-"

You do make a good point, although I've heard complaints about sellers not giving grades as well. I provide a grade for my sales, along with 11 or 12 photos and detailed descriptions of even the smallest defects. My grading leans conservative and I grade a point lower than my humble opinion. I'm thinking maybe I'll try your approach with my future auctions and see if I notice a difference. I mostly sell raw books from the 80's... from my personal collection.

[Lightning55]

1 hour ago, kav said:

Not true.  @Buzzetta  has demonstrated over and over that ebay/paypal can and will side with a seller who is in the right.

I'm sure there are cases where that happens, but many times the buyer is favored.  The whole game is rigged against the seller, as SOMEONE has cover the situation.  You know it won't be eBay or PayPal.  And they both love buyers, sellers are replaceable.

Here's a link to a recent situation, sounds very similar.  Buyer refunded plus interest from his credit card company: https://forum.cbcscomics.com/topic/11280/page/1/bad-deal-with-a-decent-outcome/#22

Edited April 12, 2020 by Lightning55

[Hollywood1892]

6 hours ago, kav said:

Do not refund anything, and block.  You did nothing wrong here.  Buying raws always comes with the possibility of CT.  If he wants a no CT guarantee, buy a slabbed book.
Tired of ppl buying raws but still want the guarantees of a slab.

Coming from you this means alot...more then you would ever understand...or maybe not...yeah you probably understand....completely.

From a buyer, when I began collecting a very short time ago I bought raws off of Ebay, and that was my mistake. I strictly buy slabs now for the simple fact- I'm not buying the raws from CGC, I'm buying them from other collectors, I have to be happy with the price I've bought them at, not the grade I expect them to be...for example

Shazam 1- bought it thinking it was 9.4 came back 8.5 (my fault)

Ultimate Fallout 4- bought it hoping for 9.8, didn't get it pressed so polybag crease still in back ( my ignorance, my fault)

Ironman 1- bought it and would be happy with a 7.0 came back 8.5 ( should I go to the store I bought it from and complain? NO)

New Mutants 98 - bought it thinking it was a 9.8, seller said its probably a 9.8 came back 9.4 disappointed yes, expressed it to seller yes, asked for refund NO ( my fault)

This is the game we play, sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, sometimes we are mislead to believe something is what it isnt,  sometimes we are not.

All I got to say is you did nothing wrong at all

And you should tell the buyer to

 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Hollywood1892

[Buzzetta]

3 hours ago, Lightning55 said:

I'm sure there are cases where that happens, but many times the buyer is favored.  The whole game is rigged against the seller, as SOMEONE has cover the situation.  You know it won't be eBay or PayPal.  And they both love buyers, sellers are replaceable.

Here's a link to a recent situation, sounds very similar.  Buyer refunded plus interest from his credit card company: https://forum.cbcscomics.com/topic/11280/page/1/bad-deal-with-a-decent-outcome/#22

I just read that over on Voldy's boards.

As soon as I read the OP post one thing instantly came to mind.  Back in the 90's when Toys were the next big thing to comics toy scalpers were everywhere. They were looking for the 'girl' figures, the Treasure Hunts from Hot Wheels and the chase figures.  What these guys would do is get up at the crack of dawn to go to Walmart or Target or Toys R Us and buy anything that they thought had even the remote chance of being valuable.  They would then list it on AOL, Prodigy, and take the inventory to Comic and Toy shows.  Whatever did not sell they would try to return to Toys R Us with their receipts or get back Geoffrey Bucks.  (Remember those?).

Eventually Toys R Us had enough of this routine and posted signs that they would no longer accept returns for collectible action figures.  The situation got so bad that the sign was posted in every TRU in the area.   That must have been a corporate decision. 

This guy reminded me of the toy buyers from the 1990's for some reason. 

[Gaard]

5 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

.You cant be responsible for a books months later that the buyer could have done anything too.

This is such a no-brainer, I don't see how anyone could disagree with it. Unfortunately Ebay/Paypal has a 6 month return policy.

[Gaard]

5 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

 Full refund/return or nothing.

I agree 100%. In fact, it might open a can of worms,but maybe partial refunds should be against the rules in the TOS.

[Hollywood1892]

11 minutes ago, Gaard said:

This is such a no-brainer, I don't see how anyone could disagree with it. Unfortunately Ebay/Paypal has a 6 month return policy.

Ebay has alot of problems that don't sit well with me...this being one of them

They could also make live auction bidding, same with Heritage 

Also buyers need to stop getting jackpot fever, then getting disappointed when CGC does what they are paid for

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

Every raw book you buy is a gamble unless;

1. The seller absolutely declares the grade is true and will refund if said grade is not met

2.The seller absolutely declares no resto and will refund if resto is found.

3. More importantly you buy from a respected and trusted seller/dealer, many of whom are CGC Board members.

Any other scenario is a complete gamble, so I don't believe anyone can really complain. Ebay after all is a microcosm of society, i.e. d-bags everywhere, good guys everywhere...but who's who?

Finally, and this is not rocket science....buy a professionally graded comic book in a slab if you want to avoid the minefield.

You know it makes sense.  

[JollyComics]

Did the buyer ever show you the image of the graded copy?  I hope you saved the image of the raw copy so you can compare them to see if there are ANY differences.

How long ago did you sell him raw copy to the buyer?  Did eBay get the notification of a dispute by the seller?  Please call eBay customer service that will help to adjust your decision.  Do not delete the emails!  They can read the email between you and the buyer.

[october]

I think some of you are letting poor selling techniques off the hook too easily. It's a seller's responsibility to know what they have and accurately describe it, not the buyer's. This is doubly true when dealing online, where the buyer has no opportunity to inspect in-hand. "As-is" and "no return" selling is sheer laziness and doesn't absolve people of their responsibilities.

eBay is not a casino. I am not gambling when I buy there. If the book has undisclosed resto, it goes back. If it has a page or pieces missing, it goes back. If it has a serious flaw not mentioned or pictured, it goes back....as it should.

That said, the OP owes the buyer nothing. It's the buyer's responsibility to return the item in the condition it was purchased in. Expecting anything with a now detached cover, months later, is ridiculous. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by october

[Hollywood1892]

This is a good question because this thread brings it up...What happens if your book looks pristine and during the grading process it is damaged by CGC?

Obviously CGC cannot give you a grade based on the books previous condition

Also, what is CGCs accountability if this happens?