Advice needed for a ebay problem - I'm the seller 3 3

[James J Johnson]

12 minutes ago, Beige said:

Ebay will always side with the buyer.

The CC company will always side with the buyer.

They rely on sellers giving up and letting it go away.

As I have said before:

Always ring ebay

Always get past the scripted drone on the phone who just want to keep thier job by sticking to their KPI's

Remember ebay does not give one flying fig about you or your book - it's the fees baby.

If at first you fail - ring again.And again

AS LONG AS YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT.

As for the OP - you should have insisted on a full refund from the get-go.

The guy was giving off every red flag about being a painful buyer. 

If the seller claims CT, then you know he's coming after you.

Now you are in a complete clusterball with so many entities involved it's a shambles.

Refund the guy, take the book back.

Then go to CGC and find out what they will do about the detached cover.

 

Like a lot of peeps have said - 'not as described' = case closed for ebay, unless you are in the right and really want to fight hard with umpteen calls.

I can't see anyway you can win this with missed colour touch and a detached cover, if none of this was in your listing.

If CGC tore your cover off - then your beef is with them.

Ebay will not care less.

Refund, take book back, and demand recompense from CGC for breaking the book.

It's your best chance of coming out even. 

All good points.

But...……………………… the natural antagonist, the #1 adversary, the natural born enemy for an ebay seller is ebay and paypal. They enable and empower a buyer to do just about whatever they please. I wouldn't sell a stick of gum on ebay, if I wanted to be assured of being paid for it, and in a relatively timely manner. When is an ebay sale final? When is the window of opportunity for chargeback finally closed? 6 months later. That's when a seller can finally count his chickens as hatched because up until that much time has elapsed, any day of tat 6 month time frame, a seller may receive an email about the funds from that transaction placed in paypal limbo due to any number of reasons, all of which are bad news.

That's why if and when I sell, I use Heritage, ComicLink, or Connect and once I'm paid, I stay paid, regardless of what nonsense a buyer might attempt through his payment medium.

Edited April 13, 2020 by James J Johnson

[Beige]

15 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

All good points.

But...……………………… the natural antagonist, the #1 adversary, the natural born enemy for an ebay seller is ebay and paypal. They enable and empower a buyer to do just about whatever they please. I wouldn't sell a stick of gum on ebay, if I wanted to be assured of being paid for it, and in a relatively timely manner. When is an ebay sale final? When is the window of opportunity for chargeback finally closed? 6 months later. That's when a seller can finally count his chickens as hatched because up until that much time has elapsed, any day of tat 6 month time frame, a seller may receive an email about the funds from that transaction placed in paypal limbo due to any number of reasons, all of which are bad news.

That's why if and when I sell, I use Heritage, ComicLink, or Connect and once I'm paid, I stay paid, regardless of what nonsense a buyer might attempt through his payment medium.

Totally agree.

The 6 months is absurd. Equally as absurd as not being to neg scumbag buyers - but that's for another day.

I sell low value stuff on ebay $5 - $500 , with most being in the $5 - $40 range.

The low prices automatically lower expectations, and most of my listing are stated as 'acceptable' or 'good' at best.

I always try to undergrade - if I think it's a VFN - I will list as FN/FN+

At that price range, and someones not happy, they get a refund and keep the book. I have 3200 pos feedbacks and 3 neutrals (in all 3 cases I actually offered full refunds and let them keep book - I even got ebay to email the buyer directly to accept the offer - all 3 never replied to either of us and ebay wouldn't remove the neutrals. Because the complaints were valid.)

I still gave a full refund and let them keep the book in all 3 cases. 

I have no negatives.

HOWEVER - I agree, with big ticket items, I sell here or Heritage. Zero hassle, guaranteed payment.

Ebay is great, but for low value items.

This is a hobby for me - I actually enjoy selling all sorts of comics, magazines, sporting programmes etc etc.

It funds my comic purchases.

I'll give you a classic example - I bought 500 Mad Mags for roughly $110 USD about 4 months ago . Took a while to list in pairs and sort them out etc. Today I broke even, and have 460 left. They sell slowly, I'm only making $5 - $15 per sale on these, but by Xmas that should be enough, along with other sales of stuff I bought in bulk for a Major Key book.

Last year it enabled me to buy 8 books that I really wanted inc an AF #15

 I'm not paying thousands for a comic out of my salary. But I will pay for bulk stock, do some hard yards, turn it into profit and THEN buy a nice book

However - I enjoy it, it's my hobby.

I would not want to have to pay a mortgage by selling on ebay!

So yes, I fully agree, big ticket items probably should go to Auction houses, but ebay is great to sell cheaper items. 

Everyone's mileage varies.

 

[The Lions Den]

4 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

You can see your purist attitude coming through here tho...I'd say when CGC gives different grades maybe they missed something first time around or they were being over harsh (my slabbist attitude)

And there may be different graders grading the book the second or third time around...  

[kav]

I feel like there's a disconnect here-ppl keep saying learn to grade.  That will not help.  CGC knows how to grade, and ppl disagree with their grades all the time.  You can learn to be the most expert grader on the planet, and it still will not stop buyers from angrily disagreeing with your grade.  Because-THEY dont know how to grade.  It takes two to tango to agree on a grade-two ppl that know how to grade.  You list grade and you are at the mercy of dolts that DONT know how to grade.

Edited April 13, 2020 by kav

[aszumilo]

6 hours ago, rjpb said:

I'd ask for a scan of the slabbed book to compare to the book shipped before I'd agree to anything. 

I'd also look up the cert number, of the book, to see when it was graded.  Maybe he is trying to get a partial refund or send you back a book he already had graded previously.

[rjpb]

40 minutes ago, kav said:

I feel like there's a disconnect here-ppl keep saying learn to grade.  That will not help.  CGC knows how to grade, and ppl disagree with their grades all the time.  You can learn to be the most expert grader on the planet, and it still will not stop buyers from angrily disagreeing with your grade.  Because-THEY dont know how to grade.  It takes two to tango to agree on a grade-two ppl that know how to grade.  You list grade and you are at the mercy of dolts that DONT know how to grade.

Maybe because I mostly sell GA on ebay, but of the hundred of books I've sold there, I've only had one buyer dispute grades, even though I list a grade for everything. It was a cheap lot of late 50s DC war books that I described as averaging VG-. The buyer felt that was the best any of them graded, and that they were more like G/VG on average. I said send them back for a refund, and the next buyer seemed happy with them. I'm not so sure that people who want to return or get a discount after purchase won't do so without a grade. "It doesn't look like the picture" just replaces "I think it's a lower grade than advertised."

[Lightning55]

1 hour ago, aszumilo said:

: 7 hours ago, rjpb said:    I'd ask for a scan of the slabbed book to compare to the book shipped before I'd agree to anything. 

 

1 hour ago, aszumilo said:

I'd also look up the cert number, of the book, to see when it was graded.  Maybe he is trying to get a partial refund or send you back a book he already had graded previously.

The seller (OP) has already determined it's the same book, as he has been able to compare the grader notes to his original eBay photographs.  He can see the CT's are where they are described to be, but he hadn't noticed them before.

[Hollywood1892]

[1950's war comics]

[littledoom]

It's been more than 30 business days... you're in the clear.. the responsibly of the seller is finished.. transaction fully complete.. especially if you offer no returns... I would have asked for pics but it's antiquated now

[wilbil]

the 5.5 said to the 3.0: never get out of the slab.

[The Lions Den]

13 minutes ago, wilbil said:

the 5.5 said to the 3.0: never get out of the slab.

There's a saying we used to have:  "Don't ever crack that out".

Take from that what you will...

[wilbil]

7 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

There's a saying we used to have:  "Don't ever crack that out".

Take from that what you will...

i take it as truth, fact and let the experts do it for you.

[F For Fake]

Agree with the majority here, should have been a full refund early on, but now it's far too late and too much has changed for a refund request to still be valid. The book was subbed to CGC, and now has a detached cover. It's not the same book anymore. You have no responsibility to refund anything at this point. Not saying you wont get a chargeback, but you're still in the right. 

I bought a book from a very Well Respected Boardie a few years ago. Received the book and put it away, didn't look at it very closely because I assumed that the Well Respected Boardie knew what they were selling. A couple of years later my collection shifted focus, so I sold the book. The new buyer received the book, and notified me that book had a coupon cut!  I hadn't noticed it because I'd trusted the boardie I bought it from and had never taken the time to read the book. That was ON ME, because I should have looked closer at the book I was selling. I shouldn't have just taken the word of the Well Respected Boardie I'd bought it from, I should have done my due diligence, inspected the book when I'd initially received it, and sent it back to the boardie I'd bought it from at that time. But that transaction was long over, so there was no point in even bringing it up. This was 100% my fault at this point. So, I apologized profusely to my buyer and offered a full refund/return or a partial, whatever they were happy with. They kept the book, I refunded the difference in what we agreed the new grade/value was, and we were both happy (though I wasn't happy that I'd had to eat the most of what I'd spent on the book originally). 

At the end of the day, it's all really about honesty and intention. If a seller isn't intentionally misrepresenting what they're selling, it's generally easy to work something out when a genuine mistake happens. I never contacted the WRB I bought the book from because at that point it was water long under the bridge, but I don't think they intentionally mislead me, I think they just didn't notice the obvious issue that we both should have seen right away, likely because they themselves had bought the book from someone they trusted. But if we'd BOTH done our jobs well, the third buyer wouldn't have had to go through that hassle at all.

Now, as for the issue of grading on eBay, that also falls under the honesty and intention banner. I do my best to be honest, but I don't guarantee anything, because who can? Grading is so subjective. But you at least have to make an effort. If you make an honest effort to grade and include descriptions of all defects and plenty of scans/pics, there shouldn't be any surprises for the buyer. And if the buyer buys the book and STILL complains, they're probably a troublemaker. But I've found that by listing the defects, adding scans/pics, and grading honestly but loosely (I'll usually say something like "VG+ to FN range" or "around NM- to NM", I never ever give an exact number grade because who knows?) I have very few complaints on either side of a transaction.

Tl,dr: everyone just be honest and reasonable, k thx.

[kav]

1 hour ago, F For Fake said:

VG+ to FN range" or "around NM- to NM",

While I agree this is better I have seen buyers say "There is no way this is in the VG+ to FN range!!"
Because they are a dolt.  Remember you will be selling to dolts, on ebay.

Edited April 13, 2020 by kav

[The Lions Den]

4 hours ago, wilbil said:

i take it as truth, fact and let the experts do it for you.

I appreciate that, but I was actually referring to the notion that by cracking the book out, you may never achieve the same grade again...  

[JollyComics]

OP hasn't responded or made any comments here.  Is he overwhelmed here?

[zeezee]

On 4/12/2020 at 2:05 AM, kav said:

Not true.  @Buzzetta  has demonstrated over and over that ebay/paypal can and will side with a seller who is in the right.

Sorry to disagree,  had a thread a few months back where PayPal gave a full refund on a 9.8, because they buyer didn't agree with the grade. He returned the book 3 months after purchase.

[kav]

3 minutes ago, zeezee said:

Sorry to disagree,  had a thread a few months back where PayPal gave a full refund on a 9.8, because they buyer didn't agree with the grade. He returned the book 3 months after purchase.

You have to handle it the right way. Buzz has explained this over and over.  Also I am not saying the seller will always win-just that it is untrue the buyer always wins.

Edited April 13, 2020 by kav

[zeezee]

I thought I did,  I uploaded images, defined what CGC is to the PayPal rep, I was assured I was in the right, lost the dispute. I challenged the dispute,  spoked to higher ups, again i was assured that I was in the right. But same result, they always back the buyer.