Which artist(s) wrote the best stories?
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51 posts in this topic

8 minutes ago, glendgold said:

Stan, for all of his philosophical shortcomings, did better character work -- sometimes.

Don’t get me wrong: I’m a Stan fan. His dialogue was an inspired mix of poetry and hard-sell infomercial. At his peak he gave each major player a distinct voice that, to me, still defines them.

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14 minutes ago, glendgold said:

I'd love to have seen what words Jack would have put  in the Silver Surfer's mouth. 

Jack saw the Surfer as an alien that aspired to humanity. Stan saw him as a man who was better at humanity than we are. Stan used the character to pour out ideas with which his readers at the time were sympathetic. It worked great then. But I think the Surfer would have lasted longer ( and made more sense) as Kirby conceived him.

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4 hours ago, Chazgee said:

I've heard great things about George Perez's Wonder Woman run.  And let's not forget Jack Kirby's Fourth World titles.

Honestly, I was not impressed with Kirby's Fourth World. The only one I liked was Mr. Miracle.

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2 hours ago, KirbyJack said:

Jack Kirby essentially wrote almost everything he did for Marvel. Mostly, Stan edited and did dialogue; the cool parts of the stories were pure Kirby.

Kirby “wrote” ?  You mean those panel descriptions?

 I wouldn’t necessarily say that Kirby is a great writer based on that, because the dialogue between characters is what made Marvel so different, and Stan should be given his rightful credit for the dialogue that made the Marvel characters stand out vs DC and other publishers.  Kirby’s writing work post-Stan on the 4th World titles leaves much to be desired and as such, this is the reason why Kirby should NOT qualify for this list.

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I get you. I’m talking more about story structure: plot points, conflict, pacing, etc. Most of the nuts and bolts of writing a story. It’s why we Kirby people won’t shut up about Jack Kirby as a storyteller. Look back a few posts and you’ll see I give Stan his due for his contributions.

Edited by KirbyJack
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2 minutes ago, KirbyJack said:

I get you. I’m talking more about story structure: plot points, conflict, pacing, etc. Most of the nuts and bolts of a  story. It’s why we Kirby people won’t shut up about Jack Kirby as a storyteller. Look back a few posts and you’ll see I give Stan his due for his contributions.

I get it.  I’m just tired of the Kult of Kirby supporters thinking that he created everything, every character, every style of art, and that he was the greatest at everything.

this thread is about which artist(s) WROTE the best stories, and Kirby ain’t it. Period.

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1 hour ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

I get it.  I’m just tired of the Kult of Kirby supporters thinking that he created everything, every character, every style of art, and that he was the greatest at everything.

this thread is about which artist(s) WROTE the best stories, and Kirby ain’t it. Period.

Did you read my post above?  Let me say it another way: I've thought about what "writing" means, kind of a lot, and one of the unique things about comics is that it doesn't just mean the words, but what KirbyJack says above - there are a lot of ingredients.  Kirby was an amazing writer except for (to my ear, to a lot of ears, and I'm guessing to your ear, too) the words part.  Which is a very important part of comics.  You'll note that even though I really really love Kirby, he isn't on my list of who wrote the greatest stories because of that issue.  Of course if you disagree with there being more to comics writing than words, okay.  But I respectfully replace your "PERIOD" with an IMO.  Agree to disagree.

Edited by glendgold
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34 minutes ago, glendgold said:

Did you read my post above?  Let me say it another way: I've thought about what "writing" means, kind of a lot, and one of the unique things about comics is that it doesn't just mean the words, but what KirbyJack says above - there are a lot of ingredients.  Kirby was an amazing writer except for (to my ear, to a lot of ears, and I'm guessing to your ear, too) the words part.  Which is a very important part of comics.  You'll note that even though I really really love Kirby, he isn't on my list of who wrote the greatest stories because of that issue.  Of course if you disagree with there being more to comics writing than words, okay.  But I respectfully replace your "PERIOD" with an IMO.  Agree to disagree.

That’s fine, Glen.

you and I often agree to disagree.

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11 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

If I may add a follow on to this question, which artists were better at writing stories than their art? Presumably, Bendis is in this mix. Is Miller a better artist or writer? I think Byrne is a better artist, but he has done some solid storylines as I recall. 

Miller was a far better writer than artist. Loved his art in DD but with Dark Knight Returns I loved the writing but not the artwork. 

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4 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Kirby “wrote” ?  You mean those panel descriptions?

 I wouldn’t necessarily say that Kirby is a great writer based on that, because the dialogue between characters is what made Marvel so different, and Stan should be given his rightful credit for the dialogue that made the Marvel characters stand out vs DC and other publishers.  Kirby’s writing work post-Stan on the 4th World titles leaves much to be desired and as such, this is the reason why Kirby should NOT qualify for this list.

Look at the difference between Kirby's work with Stan at Marvel and his work at DC, day and night. Kirby was good at coming up with great character designs and concepts but he wasn't much of a writer.

Edited by Brian Peck
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6 minutes ago, Brian Peck said:

Look at the difference between Kirby's work with Stan at Marvel and his work at DC, day and night. Kirby was good at coming up with great character designs and concepts but he wasn't much of a writer.

He was an unparalled idea machine - but I agree his dialogue was at best an acquired taste.  I feel that we all understand 1 + 1 may be 3 in some collaborations perhaps this is a  Kirby 2 + Lee 0.5 = 3 but the core idea is the same

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3 hours ago, Blastaar said:

Can’t believe I forgot Keith Giffen. Maybe not the greatest but certainly entertaining! 

A nice guy, too, who really appreciates the fans.

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