Old Batman "Rogue's Gallery" art? 2 2

[gadzukes]

Has there bee any discussion on the boards about the cool original Batman Villain art that has been selling on ebay this last week.

I haven't even heard of 95% of the villains.  Really cool stuff

Looks like it's all Bob Kane Art but none of it's signed.

They're all the size of "Trading Cards".

[gadzukes]

SO many cool cards.  I think there were 91 total cards.

[gadzukes]

These 5 are the ONLY ones I recognized out of the 91 cards.

I assume that last one is Bruce Wayne even though it's not labeled.

[artdealer]

Basically, some fan drew these back in the 40s swiping Kane figures from early Detective Comics stories. 
Certainly not a prototype of anything. 
I wrote the seller, with no reply. 
Why would DC back then publish a trading card set with 90% unknown villains and just 5 of known villains? 

[gadzukes]

19 minutes ago, artdealer said:

Why would DC back then publish a trading card set with 90% unknown villains and just 5 of known villains? 

Yes, if DC were to publish a card set for Batman back then, it would probably be more like the Superman set from 1940.

Even though I don't know who the Villains are I punched their names into the GCD and they are all there.

It would be cool if DC brought a few of these villains back into the modern comics.

Pretty cool set of cards.  I wonder what all the numbers were on the backs of the cards?

Edited April 29, 2020 by gadzukes

[grapeape]

26 minutes ago, artdealer said:

Basically, some fan drew these back in the 40s swiping Kane figures from early Detective Comics stories. 
Certainly not a prototype of anything. 
I wrote the seller, with no reply. 
Why would DC back then publish a trading card set with 90% unknown villains and just 5 of known villains? 

You don’t hear Swiping and Bob Kane in the same sentence often enough,

sincerely,

Bill Finger

[Bronty]

Besides, that’s not a professional artist.   It’s a decent amateur but very much an amateur.

[telerites]

I tracked and was amazed at the prices with some clearing over $200.  My first thought was some kid in the 40s made them like others have posed above.

Still cool and imaginative.

[bluechip]

When I first saw this I wished I had known before the auctions, then as I looked at the final results I am pretty sure I would not have outbid anyone and would have been turned off the "prototype" description when they are almost certainly fan-created items from the 40s.    I'm betting if that kid knew what his art would be selling for today he'd be very proud.

[Blastaar]

On 4/29/2020 at 2:32 PM, grapeape said:

You don’t hear Swiping and Bob Kane in the same sentence often enough,

sincerely,

Bill Finger

Ain't that the truth.

Love,

Sheldon "Shelly" Moldoff

[Catwoman_Fan]

On 4/29/2020 at 11:27 AM, gadzukes said:

These 5 are the ONLY ones I recognized out of the 91 cards.

I assume that last one is Bruce Wayne even though it's not labeled.

 

What is the consensus, are they authentic vintage art? 

If the seller was just offering the "main" villains, I would have been more likely to suspect they were all fakes.  But who spends the time to draw dozens of random Golden age thugs?  
 

Very impressive final numbers.  Well over $1,000 on several of them. 

Were the winners bidding crazy, hoping they were by Bob? Or does it not matter, because they are just cool really-early fan art?  I just couldn't pull the trigger on any.

 

[artdealer]

34 minutes ago, Catwoman_Fan said:

 

What is the consensus, are they authentic vintage art? 

If the seller was just offering the "main" villains, I would have been more likely to suspect they were all fakes.  But who spends the time to draw dozens of random Golden age thugs?  
 

Very impressive final numbers.  Well over $1,000 on several of them. 

Were the winners bidding crazy, hoping they were by Bob? Or does it not matter, because they are just cool really-early fan art?  I just couldn't pull the trigger on any.

 

Very much not authentic.

Some fan back in the 40s drew these, swiping from from old Batman comics.

Certainly no “prototype” in any way.

A lot of people got taken for a ride.

[gadzukes]

6 hours ago, artdealer said:

Very much not authentic.

Some fan back in the 40s drew these, swiping from from old Batman comics.

Certainly no “prototype” in any way.

A lot of people got taken for a ride.

I agree.  Definitely not "Prototype".  But possibly "reference"?  The cards were with a sizable stack of what looks like "file/reference comics" (I bought many of the comics cuz they looked like file/reference copies to me)

A boardie contacted the ebayer who was consigning them. 

Here's what the consignor told the boardie about the cards & the many comics from the same horde.

"The seller did tell me that the owners grandfather was an employee at the DC offices during the 40s for about 5 years. So the former employee got a hold of these somehow. So we can conclude that these are definitely from the DC offices."

So there may be a DC connection with the cards.  I don't know that the cards & comics can just be summarily dismissed as "not authentic" if there's a possible DC connection.  Certainly it's worth pursuing whatever investigating can be done.

Personally I think this is a pretty great story, and the cards are VERY cool.

[vodou]

14 hours ago, gadzukes said:

Personally I think this is a pretty great story, and the cards are VERY cool.

Any actual 'period' documentation to back up any/all of that story?

If not...the 'great story' is worthless.

Actually this 'great story' is a negative because it indicates a bias toward prevarication on the seller's part, which is likely not contained to only that part of the listing

[gadzukes]

14 minutes ago, vodou said:

Any actual 'period' documentation to back up any/all of that story?

If not...the 'great story' is worthless.

Actually this 'great story' is a negative because it indicates a bias toward prevarication on the seller's part, which is likely not contained to only that part of the listing

Nope, you are right, no proof of anything.  Seller hasn't given up the name of the "grandfather" who worked for DC in the 1940s.  Would a letter from the Grandkids (sellers) documenting their grandfathers work at DC be enough?  And then cross reference with DC employees from the time to see if indeed he worked there.  Would that be enough proof?  Could be tough to get.

Speaking of proof/evidence.  There were two things I notices about the cards.  

1) Many of the cards has an "S" with a circle stamped on the back of them.  What is that?  Maybe the illustration board logo/type on the back.  Maybe a DC stamp for "Save"?  I don't know.  Any ideas?

2) One of the cards had a distinct fingerprint on the back of the card.  If there's a set of Bob Kane's prints somewhere then that's worth a look.

[grapeape]

6 minutes ago, gadzukes said:

Nope, you are right, no proof of anything.  Seller hasn't given up the name of the "grandfather" who worked for DC in the 1940s.  Would a letter from the Grandkids (sellers) documenting their grandfathers work at DC be enough?  And then cross reference with DC employees from the time to see if indeed he worked there.  Would that be enough proof?  Could be tough to get.

Speaking of proof/evidence.  There were two things I notices about the cards.  

1) Many of the cards has an "S" with a circle stamped on the back of them.  What is that?  Maybe the illustration board logo/type on the back.  Maybe a DC stamp for "Save"?  I don't know.  Any ideas?

2) One of the cards had a distinct fingerprint on the back of the card.  If there's a set of Bob Kane's prints somewhere then that's worth a look.

There might be a set of his finger prints in the FBI data base.

Sincerly,

“The spirit of Bill Finger”

P.S if you find any finger prints on Bob Kane attributed Batman pages they probably aren’t Bob Kane’s.

 

[gadzukes]

19 minutes ago, grapeape said:

P.S if you find any finger prints on Bob Kane attributed Batman pages they probably aren’t Bob Kane’s.

What's the story there.  I'm not up on my Bob Kane lore.  Was he having other artists do the art in his style?  And then taking credit?

Maybe that's why a set of "reference cards" were needed.

Edited May 2, 2020 by gadzukes

[pemart1966]

14 minutes ago, gadzukes said:

What's the story there.  I'm not up on my Bob Kane lore.  Was he having other artists do the art in his style?  And then taking credit?

Maybe that's why a set of "reference cards" were needed.

Just check almost any story from 1941 to well the 60s anyway.  Almost all the stories had the "boxed" "Bob Kane" on the splash.  You can clearly identify though, artists like Sprang, Moldoff, Burnley (newspaper sundays) etc.  Bob's deal was that his signature would appear on the splash even though he never laid a "finger" on the art. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by pemart1966

[gadzukes]

12 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

Just check almost any story from 1941 to well the 60s anyway.  Almost all the stories had the "boxed" "Bob Kane" on the splash.  You can clearly identify artists like Sprang, Moldoff, Burnley (newspaper sundays).  Bob's deal was that his signature would appear on the splash even though he never laid a "finger" on the art. 

 That's horrible 

Did the other artists ever sign their names too?  Did Bob Kane even design any of these Rogues Gallery figures?

[Macedoniagreece]

On 5/1/2020 at 2:31 PM, artdealer said:

Very much not authentic.

Some fan back in the 40s drew these, swiping from from old Batman comics.

Certainly no “prototype” in any way.

A lot of people got taken for a ride.

Pecimistic conclusion. 

I really doubt that just a fan could conjure up all these villains from all the Bat titles and newspaper strips and know who they all were and draw these cards. Just too hard to believe.

I also emailed the seller (who has a great Ebay track record from what I saw) and he actually said he was going to try and find out additional information. So it remains to be seen.