The French have "unmasked" Batman & Robin!!! Le Justicier 2 2

[gadzukes]

This was my "ebay bucks" gift to myself last month.

It's a 1940 French edition of a Batman strip, "Le Justicier". It looks to be from the Detective 39 story "Horde of the Green Dragon".

Do any of you who collect Batman Sunday strips or own the "Batman Sunday Strip" book know what number strip this is?

Notice both Robin and Batman are NOT wearing their masks!!!!  Why? What about their secret identities?

Edited May 2, 2020 by gadzukes

[BitterOldMan]

I just checked Batman Sunday Classics 1943-1946 and found the strips were all new material, mostly penciled by Bob Kane and inked by a host of his ghosts.  Your page is indeed patched from Detective Comics #39, which is also the original source of my avatar.  I remember reading some of the Sunday pages reprinted in the fat Batman eighty page giants.  I believe the Batman dailies are also original new material.  Will check this weekend.

[Primetime]

2 hours ago, BitterOldMan said:

I just checked Batman Sunday Classics 1943-1946 and found the strips were all new material, mostly penciled by Bob Kane and inked by a host of his ghosts.  Your page is indeed patched from Detective Comics #39, which is also the original source of my avatar.  

Ray, I can only think of one (well, maybe two) other avatar that would be more appropriate for you  

[gadzukes]

15 hours ago, BitterOldMan said:

I just checked Batman Sunday Classics 1943-1946 and found the strips were all new material, mostly penciled by Bob Kane and inked by a host of his ghosts.  Your page is indeed patched from Detective Comics #39, which is also the original source of my avatar.  I remember reading some of the Sunday pages reprinted in the fat Batman eighty page giants.  I believe the Batman dailies are also original new material.  Will check this weekend.

Thanks.  Do you know why the French took Batman & Robins masks off?

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by gadzukes

[Frederic9494]

Just curious : Is this Batman strip from a Vaillant or Spirou magzaine?

I know the earliest Spirou from 1939 to 1941 have French Superman strips as "Marc, Hercule Moderne" (Marc the Modern Hercules!)

[gadzukes]

26 minutes ago, Frederic9494 said:

Just curious : Is this Batman strip from a Vaillant or Spirou magzaine?

I know the earliest Spirou from 1939 to 1941 have French Superman strips as "Marc, Hercule Moderne" (Marc the Modern Hercules!)

This is from Les Grandes Aventures - Nov 10 - 1940

[rjpb]

2 hours ago, gadzukes said:

Thanks.  Do you know why the French took Batman & Robins masks off?

Maybe I'll ask that on a different thread.

Perhaps the publisher felt that a mask was more an emblem of villainy than heroism. The fictional masked hero was still a relatively new concept prior to 1940, when the mask became standard for comic book heroes, even more so outside the United States, and it's notable that Superman did not wear a mask, and most of the costumed heroes introduced in 1939 did not initially wear masks. 

[Scrooge]

2 hours ago, gadzukes said:

This is from Les Grandes Aventures - Nov 10 - 1940

That's early on in the run. Les Grandes Aventures started on September 26, 1940. What's the issue number on yours?

You can check the very first Le Justicier page in the mag here - Batman in red! … with the mask -

http://collections.citebd.org/ark:/12345/AA6064/1940/09/26/v0001.simple.highlight=AA6064.selectedTab=thumbnail

Batman page -

[gadzukes]

On 5/2/2020 at 3:09 PM, rjpb said:

Perhaps the publisher felt that a mask was more an emblem of villainy than heroism. The fictional masked hero was still a relatively new concept prior to 1940, when the mask became standard for comic book heroes, even more so outside the United States, and it's notable that Superman did not wear a mask, and most of the costumed heroes introduced in 1939 did not initially wear masks. 

That sounds plausible.  Although the villains immediately think, "Hey, isn't that Bruce Wayne and his ward Grayson?  Let's go blow up their house"

Edited May 3, 2020 by gadzukes

[gadzukes]

16 minutes ago, Scrooge said:

That's early on in the run. Les Grandes Aventures started on September 26, 1940. What's the issue number on yours?

You can check the very first Le Justicier page in the mag here - Batman in red! … with the mask -

http://collections.citebd.org/ark:/12345/AA6064/1940/09/26/v0001.simple.highlight=AA6064.selectedTab=thumbnail

I think mine is #7.  You'll notice Batman is Red in mine too, but has no mask.

These are sweet.  I need to find more.

Edited May 2, 2020 by gadzukes

[Scrooge]

FWIW, if others want to have access to the one gadzukes posted, a free PDF is available here -

http://collections.citebd.org/ark:/12345/AA6064/1940/11/10?

You can go from there and check out the early issues to see when the masks come off and if they come back on 

[Frederic9494]

French being my first language, I checked on the Wikipedia page devoted to Les Grandes Aventures and it appears that le Justicier was drawn by a French artist named René Brantonne.

He apparently copied Batman straight from the source when he "created" le Justicier. He did the same with another character, l'Homme d'acier (The Man of Steel) who was a mix between Superman and Agent X-9...

[jpepx78]

 

Your French Batman Sunday paper has a fascinating history. You have issue 7 of the French 8 page weekly Les Grande Aventures with a publishing date of November 10 1940. The dimensions are about 11 X 15 inches and contains 4 black & white and 4 color pages. Les Grande Aventures had 70 issues between 1940 and 1942 and the the first issue was dated September 26 1940.

Your issue contains a 1 page adaptation of Detective 39 page 11 that has been redrawn and resized.

The tremendous popularity of comics with new superheroes extended overseas and some foreign publishers obtained rights to American comics for adaptation and publication. Superman, Batman and Mickey Mouse appeared in French papers.

After the defeat of France by June 1940, the country was divided into 2 regions: occupied France in the northern region with Nazi German forces and Vichy France in the southern region which was controlled by a puppet regime without German forces. Your copy of the weekly would be considered quite rare since it was published during wartime in German occupied France during material shortages, probably did not have a large circulation and publication would be sometimes interrupted by bombings or fighting. The French had bigger problems than keeping children's papers after the war and it survived French scout organizations that collected old papers for recycling throughout the decades.

Batman previously appeared only once in issue 261 of the black & white weekly Hurrah! from June 1940 which was a montage of 2 stories. The beginning of the episode is taken from Detective 33 which was Batman's origin and the rest of the episode is a translation of the story in Detective 28. The paper shuts down due to the war and Batman's next appearance would be in Les Grande Aventures #1-8. Batman was renamed Le Justicier. Les Grande Aventures 1 starts the adaptation of the story from Detective 30. Issue 5 starts the adaption of the story from Detective 39. The characters will reappear in the pages of number 30 of L’Audacieux de 1940 dated September 8, 1941 where Detective 49 is translated. Batman and Robin only appear in issues 30-34, 37, 39, 41 and 43.

This is the link to the issue 1 of Les Grande Aventures with the Batman page:

http://collections.citebd.org/ark:/12345/AA6064/1940/09/26/v0004.simple.selectedTab=thumbnail

You can look at some other archived issues of Les Grande Aventures in French:

http://collections.citebd.org/ark:/12345/AA6064?

 

The artwork was redrawn, recolored and panels resized to fit the weekly format. The dialog balloons take up a larger portion of the panels because French dialog translations take up more space compared to English which is a more precise language. The artwork has been attributed to the French artist René Brantonne. The art has a lower quality probably due to the short time allotted to complete his work.

It has been noted that the names have been changed and the masks of Batman and Robin have disappeared. There are several theories concerning these major modifications during wartime in occupied France. The first is based on the opinion from the wartime censorship committee. The committee did not like masked heroes because it believed that masked heroes encouraged clandestine actions and could serve as inspiration to resistance fighters. Second, the censorship commision regularly gave unfavorable opinions to the publications of foreign and notably American comics even though America had not entered the war against the Axis yet. The comics were redone to hide the origins of the American comics in order to make them pass for French creations.

Several years ago someone on the boards discussed about the existence of the earliest original Batman artwork. What was found was a page from issue 2 of Les Grande Aventures. How it survived wartime France is a mystery. Side by side comparison:

 

Much of this information is from the blog (in French) by Jean-Michel Ferragatti describing Batman comics during WW2:

https://www.comicbox.com/index.php/articles/french-collection-17/

 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by jpepx78

[gadzukes]

30 minutes ago, jpepx78 said:

 

Your French Batman Sunday paper has a fascinating history. You have issue 7 of the French 8 page weekly Les Grande Aventures with a publishing date of November 10 1940. The dimensions are about 11 X 15 inches and contains 4 black & white and 4 color pages. Les Grande Aventures had 70 issues between 1940 and 1942 and the the first issue was dated September 26 1940.

Your issue contains a 1 page adaptation of Detective 39 page 11 that has been redrawn and resized.

 

The tremendous popularity of comics with new superheroes extended overseas and some foreign publishers obtained rights to American comics for adaptation and publication. Superman, Batman and Mickey Mouse appeared in French papers.

After the defeat of France by June 1940, the country was divided into 2 regions: occupied France in the northern region with Nazi German forces and Vichy France in the southern region which was controlled by a puppet regime without German forces. Your copy of the weekly would be considered quite rare since it was published during wartime in German occupied France during material shortages, probably did not have a large circulation and publication would be sometimes interrupted by bombings or fighting. The French had bigger problems than keeping children's papers after the war and it survived French scout organizations that collected old papers for recycling throughout the decades.

Batman previously appeared only once in issue 261 of the black & white weekly Hurray! from June 1940 which was a montage of 2 stories. The beginning of the episode is taken from Detective 33 which was Batman's origin and the rest of the episode is a translation of the story in Detective 28. The paper shuts down due to the war and Batman's next appearance would be in Les Grande Aventures #1-8. Batman was renamed Le Justicier. Les Grande Aventures 1 starts the adaptation of the story from Detective 30. Issue 5 starts the adaption of the story from Detective 38. The characters will reappear in the pages of number 30 of L’Audacieux de 1940 dated September 8, 1941 where Detective 49 is translated. Batman and Robin only appear in issues 30-34, 37, 39, 41 and 43.

This is the link to the issue 1 of Les Grande Aventures with the Batman page:

http://collections.citebd.org/ark:/12345/AA6064/1940/09/26/v0004.simple.selectedTab=thumbnail

You can look at some other archived issues of Les Grande Aventures in French:

http://collections.citebd.org/ark:/12345/AA6064?

 

The artwork was redrawn, recolored and panels resized to fit the weekly format. The dialog balloons take up a larger portion of the panels because French dialog translations take up more space compared to English which is a more precise language. The artwork has been attributed to the French artist René Brantonne. The art has a lower quality probably due to the short time allotted to complete his work.

It has been noted that the names have been changed and the masks of Batman and Robin have disappeared. There are several theories concerning these major modifications during wartime in occupied France. The first is based on the opinion from the wartime censorship committee. The committee did not like masked heroes because it believed that masked heroes encouraged clandestine actions and could serve as inspiration to resistance fighters. Second, the censorship commision regularly gave unfavorable opinions to the publications of foreign and notably American comics even though America had not entered the war against the Axis yet. The comics were redone to hide the origins of the American comics in order to make them pass for French creations.

Several years ago someone on the boards discussed about the existence of the earliest original Batman artwork. What was found was a page from issue 2 of Les Grande Aventures. How it survived wartime France is a mystery. Side by side comparison:

 

 

Much of this information is from the blog (in French) by Jean-Michel Ferragatti describing Batman comics during WW2:

https://www.comicbox.com/index.php/articles/french-collection-17/

 

 

Wow.... I was hoping for a couple of simple nuggets of information and I feel like I have a Masters in French WWII Batman comics lore.

Well done Jpepx78, that what I love about the boards.

You say it may be rare, but truthfully I didn't pay much for it.  $79 total and it was all paid with my ebay bucks.  I just thought it looked cool because B & R weren't wearing masks.

[Aman619]

Fascinating!  How cool to ask an obscure question of somerb7ng created 80 years ago and get this level of detail and knowledge in an answer!

i have a question.  Was the decision to change Batman’s name to Justicier a last minute thing? If this page was totally redrawn and panels repositioned, and the captions relettred in French.... why is every mention of Justicier a paste up covering what the letterer originally drew?     They must have originally had Batman, or was it some other new name for French readers that was later edited to Justicier?  And I’m assuming that the word “le” that precedes it and was not edited didn’t need to, caus ethe previous name also needed “The” like “The Batman” 

[gadzukes]

1 hour ago, Aman619 said:

Fascinating!  How cool to ask an obscure question of somerb7ng created 80 years ago and get this level of detail and knowledge in an answer!

i have a question.  Was the decision to change Batman’s name to Justicier a last minute thing? If this page was totally redrawn and panels repositioned, and the captions relettred in French.... why is every mention of Justicier a paste up covering what the letterer originally drew?     They must have originally had Batman, or was it some other new name for French readers that was later edited to Justicier?  And I’m assuming that the word “le” that precedes it and was not edited didn’t need to, caus ethe previous name also needed “The” like “The Batman” 

There's a word written in the margin at the top that I can't read but has been crossed out.  That might be your answer.

Otherwise...... we gotta get a hold of the original and pull one of those Justcier tabs up to look underneathe.

[telerites]

This is really cool and while I don't necessarily collect non-US comics/strips, I am fascinated by them, especially when they are redrawn like this.  I did find this brief article in addition to all the good information above.  It does state: "Note “LE JUSTICIER” printed along the left margin; it roughly translates, “THE ADMINISTRATOR OF JUSTICE”

https://thepatronsaintofsuperheroes.wordpress.com/2014/09/01/batman-vs-le-justicier/

Thanks for posting.

[jpepx78]

Considering the timing of the name change from Batman to Le Justicier in the original art page, one would have to be aware of the social atmosphere in German occupied France. France had surrendered to Germany in June 1940 and Les Grande Aventures published their first issue in September 1940.

The Nazis had banned all comics in the late 1930s under the 1933 Smut and Trash decree after discovering the majority of comics were produced by Jews from America who the Nazis believed had a hidden agenda against the Nazi party. Superman had worldwide popularity but he got the attention and raised the ire of the Nazis since they discovered the co-creator of Superman Jerry Siegel was Jewish. The February 1940 issue of Look magazine published a 2 page spread showing how Superman would end the war and a copy found its way to Das Schwarze Korps, the weekly paper of the SS.
http://sequart.org/magazine/23691/on-how-superman-would-win-the-war/

The Superman character as a super-human created by a Jew went against their beliefs that the Nazis were the only ones capable of creating a master race. In the paper Das Schwarze Korps, April 25, 1940, Jerry Siegel was discredited by saying he “ is a fellow who is intellectually and physically circumcised and has his headquarters in New York. He invented a colorful character that boasts a striking resemblance, a strong body, and a red suit…The creative Israelite named this pleasing character with an overdeveloped body and underdeveloped brain ‘Superman’.”
https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/superman.htm

As for the Batman name change, my speculation is that the letterer or translator just transcribed on the page from the original comic dialog without thinking. Later on before publication, an editor or the letterer/translator thought about the potential harsh consequences of going against the censorship rules against American comics and made the name changes to disguise the American origin. I believe that the publishers did not want any undue attention to face repercussions from breaking censorship rules. Imagine what consequences the publishers could face if the Nazis had discovered Batman’s creator Bob Kane (birthname Kahn) or uncredited creator Bill Finger also had Jewish backgrounds.

Before the fall of France, Superman was renamed to Yordi in the strips. After France surrendered to Germany, Superman was changed to L’homme d’acier (Man of Steel) with original stories by French creators and had no costume. The Superman strip was published in Belgium but it disappeared after Belgium fell to Germany.

 

You say it may be rare, but truthfully I didn't pay much for it.  $79 total and it was all paid with my ebay bucks.  I just thought it looked cool because B & R weren't wearing masks.

Rarity doesn’t always equal high value but if more than few people find your item “cool” then it will be more valuable.

 

 

 

 

[Aman619]

They might have covered up Batman with Justicier.... but Batman is fewer letters and the pasteups (One in particular) are even wider than Justicier.  They may have had something else in there.  But good insights about the French seeking new names to avoid the wrath of their new masters.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Aman619

[gadzukes]

17 hours ago, jpepx78 said:

Rarity doesn’t always equal high value but if more than few people find your item “cool” then it will be more valuable.

I agree.  I need to keep my mouth shut so I can try to scoop these up without any competition. 

Thank you to all informative postings in this thread, I've really gotten a new appreciation for this strip especially given it's WWII context.