Is Marvel Team-Up #1 a key? 4 4

[Gatsby77]

1 hour ago, shadroch said:

 I've never thought of it as the second Spider-man title, and the reason why Peter Parker was so heavily bought was because it was the second Spider-Man title. I'd have to check MCS but I think the Human Torch rotation lasted about two years. Somebody was pushing Johnny Storm back then as they were reprinting his Strange Tales stories as well. It must have confused newbies as he had a red uniform in the Fantastic Four, a blue one in the FF stories being reprinted in MGCs, an adult HT in Marvel Team-Up, and a teenage one in The Human Torch.

Edit- I looked it up and the Human Torch was in 10 of the first 35 issues, so while it became a Spider-Man book three years into it's existence, it wasn't one at the start. It was more like Marvels version of World's Finest evolved into Brave and the Bold.

Fair - but even by the mid-70s it was solidly a "Spider-Man and" book. For folks reading the last 100 issues, it was definitively a Spidey title.

And, nearly 50 (!) years later, it's the third longest-running Spider-Man title, after Peter Parker and Amazing. (Not counting the Marvel Tales reprints).

Sure, Web of Spider-Man and McFarlane's Spider-Man run seem to get more love, but Marvel Team-Up proved Spidey could anchor more than book at a time and (I believe) made him the first Marvel character to do so.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Gatsby77

[mrwoogieman]

I always thought MTU Annual 1 with the new X-Men team up was a good one, probably would take that over issue 1 all things being equal, but that's just personal preference.

 

[OtherEric]

1 hour ago, shadroch said:

 I've never thought of it as the second Spider-man title, and the reason why Peter Parker was so heavily bought was because it was the second Spider-Man title.

I understand why people skip the Spectacular Spider-Man magazine, given that it was a) a magazine, and b) only ran two issues.  But if you disallow that and Marvel Team-Up, there's still Spidey Super Stories well before Peter Parker.

OK, if you push I get why people ignore Spidey Super Stories as well.  But I love the series, it's completely off the rails insane.

[Gatsby77]

49 minutes ago, mrwoogieman said:

I always thought MTU Annual 1 with the new X-Men team up was a good one, probably would take that over issue 1 all things being equal, but that's just personal preference.

 

Marvel Team-Up Annual 1 is good, but the very next month you get Marvel Team-Up # 53, which features Byrne's first work on the X-Men.

[letsgrumble]

Marvel Team-Up may have been the second title that featured Spider-Man, but it tended to be disconnected from continuity and all the drama of the Amazing Spider-Man title. Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man, from what I remember reading it 40 years ago, was more in line with continuity but ran mostly independent storylines, at least early on. 

And would Spidey Super-Stories be considered next in line for Spider-Man titles after Marvel Team-Up?

[letsgrumble]

Also, one of my favourite Marvel Team-Up issues is a non-Spidey team-up.

[Gatsby77]

3 minutes ago, letsgrumble said:

Marvel Team-Up may have been the second title that featured Spider-Man, but it tended to be disconnected from continuity and all the drama of the Amazing Spider-Man title. Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man, from what I remember reading it 40 years ago, was more in line with continuity but ran mostly independent storylines, at least early on. 

And would Spidey Super-Stories be considered next in line for Spider-Man titles after Marvel Team-Up?

I thought when it started that Peter Parker didn't tie to ASM directly either - it was more his exploits as a college student. Anyone recall when it first started explicitly crossing over with ASM?

Either way, it's hard for me to consider Spidey Super Stories as important as Marvel Team-Up because <60 issues isn't in the same league as >150 issues.

[shadroch]

The very first issue has him fighting The Tarantula, who debuted in the other book.

[Gatsby77]

14 minutes ago, shadroch said:

The very first issue has him fighting The Tarantula, who debuted in the other book.

Sure - and soon after, Kraven, Vulture and Morbius - all of whom also debuted in the other book.

I meant - explicit story cross-overs, like an issue of ASM that's continued in Peter Parker, or vice-versa. Clearly Kraven's Last Hunt counts; as does Acts of Vengeance - but what about in the first 50 issues? Or the first 100?

Point is, I agree with LetsGrumble that this series was "in continuity but with independent storylines" - similar to how Legends of the Dark Knight was for the first few years -- whereas Batman + Detective were closely aligned , LOTDK was mostly its own thing.

Why does it matter?

Marvel Team-Up's lack of tight continuity with Amazing shouldn't be a disqualifier of its significance as the second monthly Spidey title because I'm fairly sure Peter Parker lacked that tight continuity with Amazing as well.

Plus, Marvel Team-Up did tie to Amazing at least a few times. An obvious example is issue # 141, which is overtly the second appearance of the black costume, after ASM 252.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Gatsby77

[shadroch]

I always looked at Peter Parker as telling the stories that didn't make the cut for the big book. 

Peter David was working on a program to get comic retailers cash registers when he was given the Peter Parker writing assignment. It was the red haired stepchild of the family.

[steveinthecity]

Anyone remember this?

[ADAMANTIUM]

21 minutes ago, steveinthecity said:

Anyone remember this?

 

[Randall Dowling]

2 hours ago, letsgrumble said:

Also, one of my favourite Marvel Team-Up issues is a non-Spidey team-up.

That's the prelude to MTU 59-60 which is a classic story arc.  

[djpinkpanther67]

Yes.
Anything above 8.0 is a three figure book. 9.8 is a five figure book

[shadroch]

3 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

I thought when it started that Peter Parker didn't tie to ASM directly either - it was more his exploits as a college student. Anyone recall when it first started explicitly crossing over with ASM?

Either way, it's hard for me to consider Spidey Super Stories as important as Marvel Team-Up because <60 issues isn't in the same league as >150 issues.

Only one series has a Thanos tie-in, and the first appearance  of the fabled Thanos Copter.  Quality over quantity.

[djpinkpanther67]

2 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Only one series has a Thanos tie-in, and the first appearance  of the fabled Thanos Copter.  Quality over quantity.

 

[letsgrumble]

24 minutes ago, Randall Dowling said:

That's the prelude to MTU 59-60 which is a classic story arc.  

God bless Chris Claremont and John Byrne! Their books always stand apart from the rest.

Or maybe it's Byrne. Project PEGASUS and Vision Quest are the standouts in the runs of Marvel Two-In-One and West Coast Avengers. Byrne seems to be the common denominator.

[Lazyboy]

No, it's not a key. It's part of a fairly popular cover subset and it's a #1, which many people seem to like.

[waaaghboss]

8 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

No, it's not a key. It's part of a fairly popular cover subset and it's a #1, which many people seem to like.

This is my thought.  The term "key" is still kinda new to me, as back when I collected as a kid I'd never heard the term if it was even in use at the time, but as I understand it now, it's a standout book.  First appearances of major characters, deaths of major characters, first issues of major runs, these things to me are keys.  When the term gets slapped around too freely, it waters it down to the point where it starts to lose meaning.  I've heard people use the key term for books that most of us would consider dollar-bin fodder.  Oddly, with maybe the Batman exception, when I was growing up origin stories were almost on par with other major books, but this collecting niche seems to have almost died off completely.  Is this because these characters have been retconned so much by now that their old origins don't even matter, or that with the interweb, we can easly read the origins of characters we like without having to buy GA or SA books to read it in?

 

Marvel Team-Up is what other first issues are, the desired book for a run collector.  I'd like a copy myself, as I grew up on beater marvel-team ups from the quarter bins, but I don't think I'd go so far as to call it a key.  Just my 2cents.  

[ADAMANTIUM]

9 minutes ago, waaaghboss said:

This is my thought.  Oddly, with maybe the Batman exception, when I was growing up origin stories were almost on par with other major books, but this collecting niche seems to have almost died off completely.  Is this because these characters have been retconned so much by now that their old origins don't even matter, or that with the interweb, we can easly read the origins of characters we like without having to buy GA or SA books to read it in?

Oddly imo it could be people are no longer taking an interest in the story to read it....

They may go after artists or covers before a story line.

As for 1st appearances with media or hype or just big names or well known, people say this is there 1st appearance and people may want it, even if the story isn't well done or "good"