newshane Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 1 hour ago, James J Johnson said: And yes, one of the mechanics actually bought the original machinery that Topps (O-Pee-Chee) cut the cards with. So he can put nice new factory edges on them, smaller none-the-less. That's Loki level cunning. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, NoMan said: https://www.ebay.com/itm/STEVE-DITKO-SIGNED-LETTER-JSA-SPIDERMAN-CREATOR-ORIGINAL-ARTIST/333581950020?hash=item4dab089c44:g:bsMAAOSwNeFeoPA7 Piker! Here's a ditko signature for $250,500.00: https://www.ebay.com/itm/STEVE-DITKO-SIGNED-ALBUM-COVER-STAN-LEE-JIM-SHOOTER-AMAZING-ADULT-FANTASY-CGC-SS/263852339995?hash=item3d6ed3331b:g:pb0AAOSwjW5bYjLL Edited May 2, 2020 by James J Johnson The Lions Den and 1950's war comics 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, newshane said: That's Loki level cunning. He's been in business, cutting new factory edges on card for at least 25 years. Started out doing it for many others who would send him their cards, he'd re-machine the edges send them back, they'd submit them, sell them, and cut him in for a % of the take. You think this is new? Hardly!! Edited May 2, 2020 by James J Johnson 1950's war comics and The Lions Den 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, James J Johnson said: Piker! Here's a ditko signature for $250,500.00: https://www.ebay.com/itm/STEVE-DITKO-SIGNED-ALBUM-COVER-STAN-LEE-JIM-SHOOTER-AMAZING-ADULT-FANTASY-CGC-SS/263852339995?hash=item3d6ed3331b:g:pb0AAOSwjW5bYjLL he has million $$ items up the yin yang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, kav said: he has million $$ items up the yin yang. https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMAZING-SPIDER-MAN-1-CGC-SS-9-8-STAN-LEE-SIGNED-SKETCH-DATE-QUOTE-COMMENT-1-1/264465660406?hash=item3d9361b9f6:g:WIUAAOSwRrlb7Lzm $2.5 million! Why not $25 million? Or $25 billion, for that matter? Would that be any more insane than $2.5 million? Edited May 2, 2020 by James J Johnson kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 3 hours ago, James J Johnson said: Right now, there's a huge scandal in cards and autographed slabbed material, the work of about 20 card mechanics and a dozen or so forgers, all of their wares slabbed by PSA and Beckett. And I don't mean "mechanics" as in pressing. I'm talking about trimming, filling corners, trimming than re-cutting a card on the original machinery it was produced on to give it the scalloped edge, like 1952-1957 Topps cards and early O-P-Chee. I'm talking about bleaching also! And yes, one of the mechanics actually bought the original machinery that Topps (O-Pee-Chee) cut the cards with. So he can put nice new factory edges on them, smaller none-the-less. This is a level of corruption that even I'm surprised to hear about. At least with comics it's usually fairly easy to tell if they've had some work done to them, professional or otherwise. Pretty nefarious stuff, JJJ... 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newshane Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 44 minutes ago, James J Johnson said: He's been in business, cutting new factory edges on card for at least 25 years. Started out doing it for many others who would send him their cards, he'd re-machine the edges send them back, they'd submit them, sell them, and cut him in for a % of the take. You think this is new? Hardly!! Just interesting to learn. I've never been into cards, unless you count Garbage Pail Kids! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950's war comics Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 46 minutes ago, James J Johnson said: He's been in business, cutting new factory edges on card for at least 25 years. Started out doing it for many others who would send him their cards, he'd re-machine the edges send them back, they'd submit them, sell them, and cut him in for a % of the take. You think this is new? Hardly!! thank God most all my graded cards are mid grade at best , same as my CGC graded comic books FoggyNelson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, The Lions Den said: This is a level of corruption that even I'm surprised to hear about. At least with comics it's usually fairly easy to tell if they've had some work done to them, professional or otherwise. Pretty nefarious stuff, JJJ... This is why the CGC yellow label was a tremendous boon for comic-related autograph collectors. It's solely based on eyeballs and not opinions. No guesswork involved. god503 and The Lions Den 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 Just now, 1950's war comics said: thank God most all my graded cards are mid grade at best , same as my CGC graded comic books Not so fast. The card mechanics haven't confined their manipulations to only high grade cards. There are just as many instance of PSA 2s that have been cut, massaged, corner filled, bleached, etc. into 3.0s as 8s that have been worked into 9s. This is common practice for lower grade cards that still have high value and where it's cost effective to spend the time to do it. 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950's war comics Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, James J Johnson said: Not so fast. The card mechanics haven't confined their manipulations to only high grade cards. There are just as many instance of PSA 2s that have been cut, massaged, corner filled, bleached, etc. into 3.0s as 8s that have been worked into 9s. This is common practice for lower grade cards that still have high value and where it's cost effective to spend the time to do it. sounds like it would be better to buy lower grade raw cards these days than graded cards FoggyNelson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 minute ago, 1950's war comics said: sounds like it would be better to buy lower grade raw cards these days than graded cards Check this out. It'll give you some idea of the magnitude of the fraud that is and always has plagued the graded card market. http://www.sportscardradio.com/gary-moser-pwcc-marketplace-card-trimming-shill-bidding-scam/ 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950's war comics Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, James J Johnson said: Check this out. It'll give you some idea of the magnitude of the fraud that is and always has plagued the graded card market. http://www.sportscardradio.com/gary-moser-pwcc-marketplace-card-trimming-shill-bidding-scam/ Thanks i'm going to read it ... i'm not up on the card market anymore like i used to be , but i had a feeling something fishy was going on when i saw a low grade key that looked great except for a major crease go for double what a similar graded card was going for , so i have a feeling that someone has learned how to iron out creases good enough to slip them past the graders ?? FoggyNelson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 22 minutes ago, 1950's war comics said: Thanks i'm going to read it ... i'm not up on the card market anymore like i used to be , but i had a feeling something fishy was going on when i saw a low grade key that looked great except for a major crease go for double what a similar graded card was going for , so i have a feeling that someone has learned how to iron out creases good enough to slip them past the graders ?? Interesting that the infamously trimmed PSA 8 Wagner (states nothing on the label concerning the trimming) has been supplanted in price by a PSA 5 Wagner, by about a million dollars. The untrimmed, or should I say, known to not be trimmed, is now the most valuable card, that distinction no longer attributed to the PSA 8 Wagner, which is known to be trimmed. And some folks have a gripe with CGC over Ewert or this and that? It's a CGC hill of beans compared to a PSA Mt. Everest size problem. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Lions Den said: This is a level of corruption that even I'm surprised to hear about. At least with comics it's usually fairly easy to tell if they've had some work done to them, professional or otherwise. Pretty nefarious stuff, JJJ... It's easy to tell on cards too. The majority are under smaller than an index card and they only have two planes, front and back. How and why they consistently missed it for 20 years is another issue altogether. Edited May 2, 2020 by James J Johnson The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 10 hours ago, James J Johnson said: Check this out. It'll give you some idea of the magnitude of the fraud that is and always has plagued the graded card market. http://www.sportscardradio.com/gary-moser-pwcc-marketplace-card-trimming-shill-bidding-scam/ WOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicmeta Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) When it comes to cards all I have is a box of Valiant Unity cards. Edited May 2, 2020 by musicmeta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lighthouse Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 hour ago, musicmeta said: When it comes to cards all I have is a box of Valiant Unity cards. Do they come with a LETTER OF AUTHENTICITY ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicmeta Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 hour ago, lighthouse said: Do they come with a LETTER OF AUTHENTICITY ? No they do not and it's an unopened box. lighthouse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephisto Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, James J Johnson said: Not so fast. The card mechanics haven't confined their manipulations to only high grade cards. There are just as many instance of PSA 2s that have been cut, massaged, corner filled, bleached, etc. into 3.0s as 8s that have been worked into 9s. This is common practice for lower grade cards that still have high value and where it's cost effective to spend the time to do it. Yeah, from the stuff I saw I wouldn’t even touch a PSA 2 1952 Mantle I have seen one’s around hat grade proven to have been worked on with before and after photos sitting in regular old PSA slabs in the after state. Edited May 2, 2020 by Mephisto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
