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Bigger Silver Age Key: Daredevil 1 or Avengers 1?
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Started by bronze johnny,

Bigger Silver Age Key: Daredevil 1 or Avengers 1  

114 members have voted

  1. 1. Which is the Bigger Silver Age Key: Daredevil 1 or Avengers 1?


68 posts in this topic

bronze johnny

bronze johnny

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On 5/12/2020 at 11:31 PM, piper said:

@bronze johnny I've been toying with putting an avengers assembled run together.  The Hulk 1 is going too hurt to pay for if I decide to do it, but since I already have a TOS39, AV4 and JIM83....

I always preferred reading Avengers over X-Men but I know I'm in the minority,  I have zero interest in owning an XM1.  GSXM1 and Hulk 181 are the X-Men keys to own in my opinion.

The Avengers Assembled keys are worth pursuing. I’ve always preferred the Silver Age Avengers stories to those of the X-Men. That changes with the new X-Men team. I remember when GS X-Men 1 and Hulk 181, X-Men 94 were the X-Men keys to get. X-Men 1 grew on me and became a must have books. The magical years of 1961-1964 at Marvel are the greatest ever for any comic book publisher for any era. 

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Sweet Lou 14

Sweet Lou 14

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1 hour ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

FF1>xmen1>Avengers1>Dd1

I can agree with this ranking.  You can toss in a whole bunch of other Marvel keys and DD 1 would still be at the bottom of the list.

AF 15, ASM 1, Hulk 1, JIM 83, TOS 39 ... no question at all, each of these is a much bigger key than DD 1.

ST 110, TTA 27, TTA 35 ... some room for debate here, but certainly they command higher prices.

There are a number of "second-tier" keys -- FF 4 and 5 for example -- that are also valued higher than DD 1.

I think a much fairer fight (in which DD 1 probably comes out on top) would be Avengers 4 vs. DD 1.  DD 1 wins out on current market value.  Avengers 4 is certainly not a first appearance but it's also the first Captain America appearance most of us are ever likely to own.

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piper

piper

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1 hour ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I can agree with this ranking.  You can toss in a whole bunch of other Marvel keys and DD 1 would still be at the bottom of the list.

AF 15, ASM 1, Hulk 1, JIM 83, TOS 39 ... no question at all, each of these is a much bigger key than DD 1.

ST 110, TTA 27, TTA 35 ... some room for debate here, but certainly they command higher prices.

There are a number of "second-tier" keys -- FF 4 and 5 for example -- that are also valued higher than DD 1.

I think a much fairer fight (in which DD 1 probably comes out on top) would be Avengers 4 vs. DD 1.  DD 1 wins out on current market value.  Avengers 4 is certainly not a first appearance but it's also the first Captain America appearance most of us are ever likely to own.

I have both but Av4 trumps DD1 based on the iconic Kirby cover alone.

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jjonahjameson11

jjonahjameson11

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I don’t understand the rationale of the folks that chose DD1 over Avengers 1.  

A DC comparable would be like saying Detective 225 is a greater key than B&B 28 because Detective is a 1st appearance (Martian Manhunter) whereas B&B is ‘merely’ the 1st appearance of the Justice League 

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shadroch

shadroch

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Prior to Avengers 1, was it established all these characters lived in the same universe?

I've always had a thing for Daredevil. He was in the first Marvel comic I bought off the stands, but outside of the two Millers runs, the character was a second banana for three decades. 

 

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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

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On 5/12/2020 at 11:05 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Lots of interesting observations and well-argued opinions in your post.  But I have to disagree with the quoted text above.  I would argue that demand for Avengers 1 far outstrips that of Daredevil 1 -- I don't think most Marvel collectors consider DD 1 a "must have" at all.  (For the record, I do.)

As for supply, it's not debatable -- supply of DD 1 is significantly greater than supply of Avengers 1, especially in high grade.  A quick look at the census shows the following totals (including blue, yellow, green, and purple labels):

  • 9.8 -- 2 copies of DD 1, 0 copies of Avengers 1
  • 9.6 -- 25 vs. 5
  • 9.4 -- 44 vs. 11
  • 9.2 -- 63 vs. 16
  • 9.0 -- 103 vs. 32
  • 8.5 -- 128 vs. 61
  • 8.0 -- 180 vs. 70

Speaking for myself, I decided to grab one of those 44 9.4 copies of DD 1 a couple of years ago.  But I'm still sitting on an 8.0 of Avengers 1, wondering if and when I'm going to break down and go for a 9.0, which will cost me at least double what that 9.4 DD 1 cost me.  The market for these two books is not even close.

Key post right here. You cannot compare how big or popular two issues are using price when the supply is so enormously different.

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Gatsby77

Gatsby77

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Daredevil is my favorite Silver Age character. By far.

But the bigger key here is Avengers 1 -- it's not even close.

Why?

  • Importance. Sorry, but the first appearance of the Avengers, one of Marvel's longest-running titles and - at one point supported three titles (Avengers, West Coast Avengers, Avengers Spotlight).
  • Print run / relative rarity.

Unless you were collecting in the mid-late '90s, it may be hard to fathom just how common Daredevil 1 is -- I think it's probably *the* most common entry-level Silver Age book, next to only Iron Man 1 and Fantastic Four 48. Go to a mid-level comic con in 1992-1995, multiple dealer tables would have a stack of each of these books. Seriously - like 5-20 copies of each, pick your grade.

Full disclosure - I have currently own a CGC 6.5 copy of Daredevil 1, Stan Lee Sig. Series.

I once owned a CGC 2.5 copy of Avengers # 1, which I believe I bought here on the boards from Foolkiller. Later sold.

Oh - and also:

Anyone who is claiming that the first appearance of the Avengers team doesn't count because there are no major character first appearances. Doesn't. Understand. The Hobby.

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kimik

kimik

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On 5/12/2020 at 9:57 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

X-Men 1 is a very complicated key for that very reason.  The character with the most enduring interest and popularity in the book is the villain.  None of the original five X-Men ever captured readers' imagination in any real way and none of them could carry a book on their own, the very brief Bronze Age run of the rebooted furry Beast notwithstanding.  The reboot of Marvel Girl as Phoenix puts a bit of an asterisk on things but that's almost a separate character and is treated by collectors as such with X-Men #101 and #134 getting attention as "first appearances" of a sort.

As I said above, the Avengers wasn't absolute top-shelf material once you get past the first 16 issues or so, but it was solid throughout the Silver Age.  The X-Men stories were much more uneven and (speaking as a collector who has assembled all of these runs) I can say that X-Men is second only to Daredevil in affordability.  There aren't many real keys in the first 66 issues, and then of course the next 27 issues are reprints.  The books just aren't at the level of Spidey or FF, and IMHO lag behind Marvel's other Silver Age titles as well.

X-Men 1 and Avengers 1 are pretty close to even in monetary value, but for obvious reasons speculators are going to have more interest right now in X-Men 1, seeing upside in that book with Disney's acquisition of the characters whereas the Avengers have had their decade as the centerpiece of the MCU.  It will be interesting to see whether the Avengers movie franchise continues with a completely new lineup.  You would think that an Avengers vs. X-Men movie would be inevitable, but what if it takes another decade for them to build up to that?

X-Men 1 has been worth double Avengers 1 in most grades for a few years now. TOS 39 is a better comparable.

That being said, Avengers 1 > Daredevil 1 for me. 

Edited by kimik
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