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Wizard #16 1st appearances question
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Started by jsylvester,

55 posts in this topic

jsylvester

jsylvester

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6 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Notice the lack of a notation that it's a first appearance (not that CGC is the authority on that). It's a curiosity for people who like to collect that sort of stuff, sure, which is why it's interesting to note when it was published.

Crazy, to me a cover published with characters never seen before is a first appearance. Collectors of OA I’ve spoken to agree but wanted to get outside opinions from book collectors. I can understand house ads/previews using the same image of the future cover of the book not being a 1st appearance since it’s a copy of the first future cover. But if it’s original art with the first appearance of new characters including one of them titled it’s a first appearance to me. I guess it’s a grey area as some agree and some don’t.

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GeeksAreMyPeeps

GeeksAreMyPeeps

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6 hours ago, jsylvester said:

Crazy, to me a cover published with characters never seen before is a first appearance. Collectors of OA I’ve spoken to agree but wanted to get outside opinions from book collectors. I can understand house ads/previews using the same image of the future cover of the book not being a 1st appearance since it’s a copy of the first future cover. But if it’s original art with the first appearance of new characters including one of them titled it’s a first appearance to me. I guess it’s a grey area as some agree and some don’t.

The "some" that agree with what you're presenting are vastly outnumbered by the "some" that don't, so it's not so gray, but people who agree with you like to muddy the waters. Comics is a storytelling medium. Historically collectors have accepted "appearance" to mean the inclusion of a character in that medium. If you like collecting publications that advertise upcoming characters and comics, by all means, continue to do that. No one is going to begrudge you collecting what you like to collect; that's the very point of collecting.

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Bird

Bird

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7 hours ago, jsylvester said:

Crazy, to me a cover published with characters never seen before is a first appearance. Collectors of OA I’ve spoken to agree but wanted to get outside opinions from book collectors. I can understand house ads/previews using the same image of the future cover of the book not being a 1st appearance since it’s a copy of the first future cover. But if it’s original art with the first appearance of new characters including one of them titled it’s a first appearance to me. I guess it’s a grey area as some agree and some don’t.

There are a bunch of other characters who first appeared in and/or on the cover of magazines but who have a first appearance in comics and the comic is the more sought after collectible (but not always...think Rocket Raccoon or Starlord). First appearance in comics is different than first appearance anywhere else, even if it is a comics magazine. It might be a first appearance but it would need another word in there, like first printed appearance.

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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

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23 hours ago, jsylvester said:

I actually own the original art to the cover.

And there it is. :eyeroll:

No, it's not any kind of first appearance. It might not be the first published art or even the first cover featuring any of those characters (as previously shown with the Pitt Malibu Sun).

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Comic book terminology aside you have the first published image of Maxx. Even though his story in Darker Image had already been completed. 
Also, if you won this piece in 2013 for 13k, you got it for a steal! I missed that auction as I was traveling.

4E18AB65-7A09-49D8-B57E-7E42F583D7E4.jpeg

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GeeksAreMyPeeps

GeeksAreMyPeeps

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1 hour ago, Grails said:

If they did and featured an image of the cover then those publications would be considered the first published image of the Maxx. Literally the first time the character is published. Of course in comic terminology, it understandably does not count as a first appearance.

What about the ashcans? Do they pre-date Wizard?

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valiantman

valiantman

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...and knowing how much Heritage likes to hype up the buyers, you'd think they would have said something, anything, about this being the first drawing/art/production piece for any of these characters, if that was true:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jim-lee-sam-kieth-dale-keown-and-rob-liefeld-wizard-magazine-16-original-cover-art-wizard-1992-/a/7073-92065.s

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valiantman

valiantman

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So, it's a great piece of art - but when you combine something great with something "not exactly true", it subtracts from the greatness and is generally a "negative vibe" on what should be great. 

A fantastic piece of art with what is known about it, without overstating anything, is all positive.

"My baby is the best baby in the whole world!  He's the cutest, most precious, never cries, doesn't poop, and said 'Mama' on the day he was born!"

Proud mothers should try not to decide everyone else's opinion of their baby... it causes more groans than grins.

 

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cbmitch

cbmitch

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Here are more complications:  

Deadpool's Secret Secret Wars #2 Bachalo Variant (front cover gwenpool app)

Marvel previews 95 (front cover new spiderman app)

Gobbledygook 1 & 2 (back cover turtles app)

All are pretty pricey so it looks as the market assigns value to a first published appearance of a character.  What these are labeled as (first appearance, etc) is up for debate.

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valiantman

valiantman

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On 5/16/2020 at 7:06 PM, cbmitch said:

Gobbledygook 1 & 2 (back cover turtles app)

The fun thing about Gobbledygook #1 is that the TMNT #1 ad on the back says TMNT #1 is "on sale now"... so why is Gobbledygook #1, which is definitely an advertisement, even considered to have come out before TMNT #1?

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valiantman

valiantman

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On 5/16/2020 at 7:06 PM, cbmitch said:

All are pretty pricey so it looks as the market assigns value to a first published appearance of a character.

The market is acting as a whole, though... and the value in the market is dependent upon how many copies exist.

Spawn #1 is the first appearance of Spawn, even though there are advertisements that came earlier and even though those books with advertisements sell for more than Spawn #1.

The total value of all copies of Spawn #1 is millions of dollars, and the total value of all copies of Malibu Sun #13 or Rust #1 are ten thousands of dollars.

If there were a million copies of Malibu Sun #13, it would be a dollar book.  If there were only a few hundred copies of Spawn #1, it would be a $10,000+ book.

The value of a single copy of a comic doesn't tell us much about the market, any more than a $5 stock tells us about the company.

A $5 stock can go with a $3 billion company and a $500 stock can go with a $30 million company.

As much as people like to celebrate when a comic sells for $1,000+, it's only impressive if there are a thousand of them.

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waaaghboss

waaaghboss

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On 5/8/2020 at 11:11 PM, jsylvester said:

Crazy, to me a cover published with characters never seen before is a first appearance. Collectors of OA I’ve spoken to agree but wanted to get outside opinions from book collectors. I can understand house ads/previews using the same image of the future cover of the book not being a 1st appearance since it’s a copy of the first future cover. But if it’s original art with the first appearance of new characters including one of them titled it’s a first appearance to me. I guess it’s a grey area as some agree and some don’t.

But...its not a cover....to a comic book.

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