opinion of value? 2 2

[Ned Ryerson]

This has been hanging on my wall for about 9 years now but I have not been following the market at all, could someone tell me what the fair market value For this sketch? 
 

edited: sketch has sold

 Thanks

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Ned Ryerson
Removing pic

[exitmusicblue]

Given his 1970s Submariner published pages go for several thousand on average (some dealers ask for a few K more), I'd wager 400-700 would be fair for this.  Of course the more (verifiable) provenance, the better.

Edited May 9, 2020 by exitmusicblue

[Brian Peck]

3 hours ago, Ned Ryerson said:

This has been hanging on my wall for about 9 years now but I have not been following the market at all, could someone tell me what the fair market value on my everett sub-mariner marker sketch might be? I believe it was drawn during the 1970 new york comic con. Thanks

 

Too bad its been out in the light. Looks like the marker has faded and changed colors.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Brian Peck

[Ned Ryerson]

Do some markers change color over time regardless? Does anybody know? The paper is whiter then the pic shows and doesn’t show major signs of sunlight damage. If I could locate a similar sketch for $500-$700 I would def buy another.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Ned Ryerson

[jjonahjameson11]

2 hours ago, Ned Ryerson said:

Do some markers change color over time regardless? Does anybody know? The paper is whiter then the pic shows and doesn’t show major signs of sunlight damage. If I could locate a similar sketch for $500-$700 I would def buy another.

what's the size of the Subby head?

[Ned Ryerson]

The head top to bottom is 6” and forehead to edge of ear is  4 1/2”

[alxjhnsn]

Yes, markers can fade and change colors. Black will turn bluish and fade.

When questions about value come up, I take the "teach a man to fish" approach. Since I post this write-up often and since it is long, I've put it in spoiler tags. If desired, you can PM your email address to me and I'll send it right along.

 

Spoiler

Whether you are pricing to sell or buy, you might want to explore the following resources

• The website Comic Art Tracker can help you find art and look at current asking prices for similar pieces.
• The OA auction archive at Heritage Auctions – This archive presents the results from all of their OA auctions.. Once you sign-up and get an id, you can search for pieces by your artist and see what they have sold for.
• Ebay’s completed listings. The data is only 30 days old, but it is a place to find pricing for commonly traded artists.
• The CAF Market Data - More auction results (more than 1,000,000) are available if you join the Comic Art Fans site, pay for Market Data access, and access eBay’s archive (much more than 30 days worth), Heritage Auctions, and other auction sites.
• The Comic Art Database. It contains transaction records entered by the owners of Comic OA.
• Dealer sites. 
  • Dealers, generally, post their art with fixed prices though there are exceptions. 
  • The best dealer list is available on Comic Art Tracker. You can see it here. 
  • There other dealer lists, e.g., there is a list of dealers on CGC OA board and one on the Dragonberry site as well. 
  • The CAF site will search the inventories of several dealers for you. However, the Comic Art Tracker is better.
• Blouin Art Info which tracks sales at major art auctions. It can turn up some Comic OA as well. Look for the “Art Prices” item on the top right of the screen
• Jerry Weist's Comic Art Price Guide - Heritage published a third edition of it. In my opinion, it's a good history book and might be useful for comparison work, but it was out of date a year before it was printed.
• A topic  on the CGC OA boards, A-level panel page valuations by artist/run - thoughts/additions/changes?, holds a discussion that relates to your question. It provides some "generally agreed upon" ranges for popular runs by popular artists on popular characters.
• The Biggest OA Prices thread tracked some of the largest sales in the OA space. While that particular thread has stopped; it's probably worth reading for the discussions. Meanwhile , the information is still being updated - just with a different mechanism.
  • The price information moved to The OA Elite blog. Click on the categories on the top of the page to see the updated list.
  • The discussion moved to Biggest OA Prices: The Blog.
• Dealer quotations are valuable. To get one, you approach a dealer with the art (in person) or image (by email) and ask what they would offer for it. If they make an offer, remember that they need significant margin especially if they feel that the piece will not sell immediately. You might double their offer to reach a retail price. Of course, this is a very hard to manage approach. An excellent list of dealers can be found on Comic Art Tracker here. Check a few and use those that seem to carry art like you are trying to sell - some dealers do specialize.

If you are pricing to sell, there are a couple of addition resource types:

• Auction houses will often appraise art. Here are links to a few auction houses. There are others.
  • Free appraisal from Heritage
  • Free appraisals from ComicConnect
  • Free appraisals from Hake's 
• Art Dealers will frequently provide appraisals.

You can get a list of Auction Houses on the ComicArtTracker site here and dealers here. ComicArtTracker has the most comprehensive list on the internet.

 

Another source of original art valuation opinions would be to ask on Facebook pages and the CGC Marketplace. However, prepare for odd/funny answers, unsolicited offers, and the usual social media snark. That said, here are some links from Facebook:

• Comic Art Buyer Beware
• Comic Art Trends Advisors
• Comic original art sale, trade, show
• Original Comic Art 
• Original Comic Art Collectors
• Original comic book art
• Original Comic Book art and Commissions for sale
• Original Comic Book art for sale
• Original Comic Art Collectors Bad Buyers Sellers Traders Group
• Sketch Prices - Comic Book Sketches, Commissions & Autograph Prices
• Sketch and commission: price, artist credit, & review

I do not claim that this is either exhaustive or useful.
 

 

Even with the information above, new buyers and sellers often find that OA is too hard to price. I agree that it is difficult. However, I think that there is a valid reason. Each piece is unique. Uniqueness make art sales generally and OA specifically non-linear. Examples of how piece can differ in ways that impact pricing include:

• Content: Consecutive pages could and do sell for radically different amounts based on their content. 
• Page Layout: In general, you might say:

 Covers > 1st Page Splash > Other Splash > 1/2 splash > panel page

However, that's not always true either. The right panel page can be much more compelling than a bland splash.

• Penciler vs. character: There are "A-list" artists, but not all of their books/characters have the same value. Kirby FF pages generally go for more than JIM/Thor pages which go for more than Cap pages (2nd run) which go for more than ...
• Pencilers/inkers combinations - Kirby/Sinnott FF pages rank above Kirby and anyone else on FF, but a Kirby/InkerX FF page might be more or less than a Kirby/Stone Thor page. Hard to tell.
• Production Technique:
  • Classic - pencils, letters, and inks all on the same page
  • Recent - pencils and inks on the same page - no lettering
  • Modern - pencils and inks on different pages - no lettering

In general, Classic > Recent > Modern

 

When looking at a "split" Modern page, consider what it might be worth if done in Recent style and then split the cost with 60% of the "Modern-style" page going for the pencils and 40% going for the blue-line inks. Why? The penciller tells the story and that's the page (s)he handled. The inked page has the advantage of being the published page, but even so most prefer the pencil page.

 

Finally, you should join the comic book OA community. The main points of Internet contact are:

• Yahoo's comicart-l mailing list
• The Comic Art Fans website
• The CGC OA Board 
• The Facebook Pages listed above

The main points of physical contact are probably:

• Dedicated Comic Art Shows
  • Comic Art Con (Spring/Fall) - A twice yearly show originally in northern NJ, but moving to NYC. The domain seems to have lapsed, but the show owner has a page for it here.
  • NYC Comic Art Expo - Annual spring show, nothing but art people (dealers, individual sellers, and buyers) and a few local artists. Held at the Penn Hotel opposite Penn Station
  • Torpedo Comics Collectors Convention (née LA Comic Art Show) - Annual art show one week before SDCC to leverage the dealer’s visit to the west coast
• Conventions with High Dealer Attendance
  • San Diego Comic Con (July)
  • New York City Comic Con(October)

• Shows with a comic artist focus
  • Heroes Comic Con - Not a lot of comic art dealers, but a huge number of artists who generally will draw and have portfolios to sell
  • Baltimore Comic Con - Similar to HeroesCon.

One last comment, if you are looking to buy or sell, spend the time to learn the market. That might take 6 months, but it's worth the time.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by alxjhnsn

[Ned Ryerson]

Welp so much for this thread, I was in talks with a namor collector not from these boards and we struck a deal. I feel I did pretty well. Its headed to Canada. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Ned Ryerson

[bluechip]

12 hours ago, exitmusicblue said:

Given his 1970s Submariner published pages go for several thousand on average (some dealers ask for a few K more), I'd wager 400-700 would be fair for this.  Of course the more (verifiable) provenance, the better.

I will give you $701

[Ned Ryerson]

13 hours ago, exitmusicblue said:

 I'd wager 400-700 would be fair for this. 

Edited 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Ned Ryerson

[exitmusicblue]

I would say "wow," but not good form to post that on here so soon.  These boards are the top forum for OA collectors... }:-)

Edited May 9, 2020 by exitmusicblue

[Will_K]

3 hours ago, Ned Ryerson said:

Its headed to Canada. 

Hey Ned, I hope you'll be mailing that art with the necessary... insurance.

[Ned Ryerson]

14 minutes ago, Will_K said:

Hey Ned, I hope you'll be mailing that art with the necessary... insurance.

Aaaaaaah Yes?

[Rick2you2]

2 hours ago, exitmusicblue said:

I would say "wow," but not good form to post that on here so soon.  These boards are the top forum for OA collectors... }:-)

As we all pat ourselves on the back...

[Drewsky]

Hey Ned,  Did'nt you date my sister Mary Pat a couple of times until I told you not to anymore. Bing! 

[Subby1938]

The last sketch similar to this sold years ago . Final price with buyers premium was 1600+ US and it was more 1960s take on character . That being said you’d never find this type of drawing for 5-700.00 US that’s laughable . That’s pricing people wish they could get. It comes down to how bad do you want to own something there is almost no supply of 
 

Only two examples I could find 

 

2009 sold on Heritage $776.00

2014 sold on Heritage $1673.00

both included buyers premium and the 2014 version looked more of 60s style Namor. Heritage went on to say they have only ever offered three Namor sketches like these so they are uncommon . The prices quoted above I’m sorry I don’t agree with 4-700 US? A modern commission 11 x 17 averages 300 US that seems to be a standard price . How the heck does someone value a vintage Everett Namor that? 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Subby1938

[Subby1938]

One more thing I wanted to add . A 50 year old drawing using old style paper and marker is absolutely fine by me if it did fade a little . It’s half a century old we are not grading comics here ! 

[exitmusicblue]

I've seen plenty, as well.  Not to mention published pages from the 70s in abundance.  And I'm a Namor/Everett fanboy myself.

Also, HA comps with vintage sketches?  Not for me. Unless the seller has rock-solid provenance and a longstanding rep.

[Subby1938]

These don’t come up often that’s fact . You don’t need to worry about provenance with third party art grading . If you need a picture of Bill sitting with art well good luck with that . In late 60s and early 70s that’s wasn’t a thing . Just seeing these drawings is a  pleasure . 
 

now back to topic which was price . The quoted price was a joke . That’s that. You can’t buy these at that price and there is not enough supply that’s fact ! If you like  pages they are easier to find and pricey but there . 
 

I personally like pin ups and Namor Everett is not easy to find . Period 

[Subby1938]

22 minutes ago, Bill C said:

I agree with most everything except the extreme rarity part. I must have 7 or so scans of Everett Subby head shots on my computer somewhere. Not easy to find maybe, but they exist in somewhat larger supply.

Didn't one sell on the boards a couple years ago?

I’m confused ? 7 headshots in last 50 years is abundant ? I’ve googled searched the out forums and collectors pages and I only have handful of scans. They are extremely hard to find . I own 2 Charles Vess Spiderman pieces from 85 & 86 to draw a parallel ive onky ever found 8 drawings he did privately of Spidey . He was around for much shorter time. Point being 1939-1972 only seven headshots I’d say that’s rare .