Walking Dead #1 2 2

[Sauce Dog]

3 hours ago, Phill the Governor said:

Lol the ignorance in this thread is hilarious. People talking about TWD as if it's still being decided whether or not it has made a cultural impact or not.

The comic series ended, the show has been on for 10 years, and interest for the franchanchise as a whole has dwindled compared to where it was at its peak.

But TWD is a property RIPE for nostalgia. It is a property that will have new readers, and new viewers over time because it was created for an adult demographic and it became a pop-culture giant.

The comic book series won several awards, as did the television series (amist breaking crazy records). Prices for the comics will drop, but it will eventually hit a time where people become interested in it again and want to get that Issue 1, 19, 48, etc. Maybe it will take the 10 years, maybe 20, but when the series gets re-booted (which is inevitable) there will be a whole new generation of fans. And that's not even taking into consideration the new fans that will get into reading the comics and the original tv series over that time. Argue it all you want, but The Walking Dead defines the Horror genre like Batman or Spiderman defines Superheroes.

I don't think anyone here is arguing it didn't have any cultural impact, only that they thought it either a) wasn't something they liked at all, or more commonly b) got very repetitive with the quality diminishing over time (which I agree with).

There will be for sure a nostalgia spike to all the comics if/when any new property comes out, that's expected with ANY comic property - same with everything else you speculated. While I know the comics had a good impact on the genre, it really was the show that pulled in the massive fanbase to the series (not all of which were interested in reading the books), so I personally think this comic series peak is long past - regardless of whatever properties they try to spin off in the future for that sweet cash-cow brand milking money.

 

[Sauce Dog]

14 hours ago, raybowles said:

I'm missing?  The print run has been discussed about 20 times on 20 different posts for the past 7-8 years and it was always lower than 7500.  Now out of left field the print run is being questioned with no evidence and I'm the one who does not get it.

Nice bizarro world thinking. 

 

 

I really am now questioning if you are serious about this or not. What everyone is trying to tell you is that the numbers discussed in all those posts were sourced from the DISTRIBUTOR numbers; and the term 'print run' ended up being used as a colloquialism in these many discussions. This issue is then compounded by the dozens upon dozens of news outlets / blogs writing that includes the term 'print run' in the same usage (and while I'm certainly no prescriptivist, these are very specific industry terms to describe two very different numbers). 

You seem to be REALLY dead set on trying to find an exact number to believe in, and if no-one provides you with an EXACT number you just shrug off any explanations of why that isn't possible. Just because people cannot provide a different answer, does not mean the answer you currently hold is the right one (it's an argument from ignorance fallacy you got going on.)

The true print run of the issue was never released, as is the case with nearly all comic books and comic publishers, so the only numbers that can be obtained are third-party counts of estimated distribution orders. The number you quote was originally made widespread by Comichron, but you can read what they wrote in context:

Quote

By far, the most important release of the month in historical terms would turn out to be Walking Dead #1 from Image andRobert Kirkman, which would place 233rd among all comics with 7,266 copies shipped to retailers in the United States and Canada. Sales outside North America would likely have brought that number closer to 8,000 copies. 

Quote

"This list includes all items on Diamond's Top 300 chart. If you don't see a book, Diamond released no data for it. Distributor charts are regional commodity reports, not measures of a work's total reach."

Emphasis added by me. The important things to get from this are

1. The number only counts North America
2. The number only counted the number of copies shipped for October 2003 delivery
3. Shipping counts are NOT tracked for outside NA
4. No mention of any additional shipments after the initial one (which is common for titles that are under ordered by LCS)
5. If you've ever done any work with a print house, as I do weekly, then you know that nobody orders 7,266 copies of something - it's always in easier to quote numbers like 7,500 or 8,000, and that does not include the amount printed OVER the paid/requested amount due to a variety of reasons (I mentioned TMNT #1 before. They paid for 3,000 copies to be printed, but due to how the printer made the run they ended up being given an extra 200)
   
   
    

tldr; The print run is unknown.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Sauce Dog

[raybowles]

10 minutes ago, Sauce Dog said:

I really am now questioning if you are serious about this or not. What everyone is trying to tell you is that the numbers discussed in all those posts were sourced from the DISTRIBUTOR numbers; and the term 'print run' ended up being used as a colloquialism in these many discussions. This issue is then compounded by the dozens upon dozens of news outlets / blogs writing that includes the term 'print run' in the same usage (and while I'm certainly no prescriptivist, these are very specific industry terms to describe two very different numbers). 

You seem to be REALLY dead set on trying to find an exact number to believe in, and if no-one provides you with an EXACT number you just shrug off any explanations of why that isn't possible. Just because people cannot provide a different answer, does not mean the answer you currently hold is the right one (it's an argument from ignorance fallacy you got going on.)

The true print run of the issue was never released, as is the case with nearly all comic books and comic publishers, so the only numbers that can be obtained are third-party counts of estimated distribution orders. The number you quote was originally made widespread by Comichron, but you can read what they wrote in context:

Emphasis added by me. The important things to get from this are

1. The number only counts North America
2. The number only counted the number of copies shipped for October 2003 delivery
3. Shipping counts are NOT tracked for outside NA
4. No mention of any additional shipments after the initial one (which is common for titles that are under ordered by LCS)
5. If you've ever done any work with a print house, as I do weekly, then you know that nobody orders 7,266 copies of something - it's always in easier to quote numbers like 7,500 or 8,000, and that does not include the amount printed OVER the paid/requested amount due to a variety of reasons (I mentioned TMNT #1 before. They paid for 3,000 copies to be printed, but due to how the printer made the run they ended up being given an extra 200)
   
   
    

tldr; The print run is unknown

The point is the low print run should help with the value of the comic. If your saying that the 7200+ number is not exactly on the noise then we agree. Let's say just for discussion that the number is 10 percent higher. You are still looking at a print run less than 8,000 copies. That's still a very low number which again helps the value of the book.

Do you think the print run is over 8000? Over 10,000?  If so do you have any evidence to back that up?  

I'm not trying to argue with you. If you have evidence I would love to see it. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by raybowles

[GLCBrad]

Can you believe that there are 24 copies in 9.9 on the census?

It's quite possible that more than 10% of that comichron number (absolutely 100% NOT the print run number) are CGC 9.8 or better

This conversation is absurd BTW

[Mercury Man]

5 hours ago, Marshall Crist said:

or the trash-people who spoke broken English like they were born into and spent their entire lives in a post-apocalyptic environment with no adults to teach them grammar. 

Yeah I never understood that.  It's like they crashed landed from another planet, and just tried to pick up English as a second language.  WTF?!

[Sauce Dog]

2 hours ago, raybowles said:

The point is the low print run should help with the value of the comic. If your saying that the 7200+ number is not exactly on the noise then we agree. Let's say just for discussion that the number is 10 percent higher. You are still looking at a print run less than 8,000 copies. That's still a very low number which again helps the value of the book.

Do you think the print run is over 8000? Over 10,000?  If so do you have any evidence to back that up?  

I'm not trying to argue with you. If you have evidence I would love to see it. 

Low print runs certainly help the price, but only if they are a known quantity (and only if there is demand, which there isn't right now hence the price settling) - which is one reason I don't use the term 'print run' in this case since it is next to impossible to pin that down without any new information coming to light (especially with modern books and how printing is done).

There are so many unknowns that there is no way to just guess a print run number; numbers that people come up with are pure speculation and nothing more. There is no evidence for print run numbers, only NA distribution estimates. However, if forced all I would say is the number is at least 8,000 just by going with the distribution numbers from Diamond. 

With #1 it is extra hard to figure out a print run because we know there was two print runs of the first issue, the first produced the all black text error and the second run was corrected to white text. The question is when in the process did this get flagged & corrected? Did the printers run off the entire order before the error was caught, did they catch it part way and then re-set the press (meaning they supplied Image comics with all the errors anyways and Image kept them to save money?), and most importantly since we know they ran off two times how can we know there wasn't another press run after that for re-orders? I've been literally provided hundreds of extra prints of issues ordered due to a printing mistake (such as color issues, or more commonly trimming/binding issues when the blades are not sharp), and since we know that happened here it means who the hell knows if there is another few boxes out there

Edited May 18, 2020 by Sauce Dog

[raybowles]

3 hours ago, GLCBrad said:

Can you believe that there are 24 copies in 9.9 on the census?

It's quite possible that more than 10% of that comichron number (absolutely 100% NOT the print run number) are CGC 9.8 or better

This conversation is absurd BTW

What's absurd? It's a comic message board and we are discussing comics. If you don't like the subject matter that's your right but it does not make it absurd.

I have read probably 1000 different topics on the CGC board over the years and I never thought one was absurd. Yes some I did not care for but I'm sure other people did. 

[GLCBrad]

16 minutes ago, raybowles said:

What's absurd? It's a comic message board and we are discussing comics. If you don't like the subject matter that's your right but it does not make it absurd.

I have read probably 1000 different topics on the CGC board over the years and I never thought one was absurd. Yes some I did not care for but I'm sure other people did. 

It’s absurd that you’re fishing for validation to hold onto a book

Further, its absurd that you don’t understand the difference between Comichron’s North American sales numbers and a book’s “print run” after reading through all of the information that has been available on these forums in the 16,000 threads dedicated to that very topic

[Keys_Collector]

There's lot of personal opinions and biases here towards modern books that is not looking at the facts regarding the overall popularity of the show and how many people want to own Walking Dead #1.  I do not own the book and probably never will as it is over priced in my opinion and has been for quite some time.

But the fact remains that there are millions of Walking Dead fans from those who followed the comic to those who only watched the show.  Whatever the print run (arguing over print run +/-, really guys?) of an actual print run for a much number higher number of people that would like to have it in their collection will help it holds its value for some time.  It has crossed into the pop culture realm and that will help hold its value in the long term.  Who knows with the talk of Rick Grimes movies or where the direction of the show is going.

I have watched it from the beginning until this past season (cut the cord) but plan to pick it back up.  It's been a show of immense peaks and valleys where there were amazing episodes sprinkled in with fillers or terrible plot holes.  It has still remained a show with solid acting for the most part and i've enjoyed overall more then disliked it and I consider myself somewhat of an amateur film/tv critic so try to be rational on my view towards story/acting/plot/cinematography/etc even if I enjoy it. It seems that most of the people who really dislike and talk so poorly about the show never actually stuck along for the ride that made the show worthwhile.  Nor am I surprised to see people turned off by the continued introduction of characters or story lines that are important for representation but don't fit their narrow typical ideas of what they want to see on the show (pointing towards the PC comment but not going to delve further into this).

What is the value currently of Walking Dead 1 9.8?  Check GPA/GoCollect for FMV but there is also personal value that each buyer can place on a book.  A friend of mine has a black mature reader 9.8 and got an offer for $2500 recently and turned it down.  I asked him if he was crazy and he said that he really doesn't want to sell it as its an iconic book to him and he views the black lettered version as more of a 1st print with more value.  This coming from a guy who's sold more expensive silver age key books and has only a handful of comics left in his collection.  I don't agree with him but that's where personal value for each collector comes into play.

[raybowles]

14 hours ago, GLCBrad said:

It’s absurd that you’re fishing for validation to hold onto a book

Further, its absurd that you don’t understand the difference between Comichron’s North American sales numbers and a book’s “print run” after reading through all of the information that has been available on these forums in the 16,000 threads dedicated to that very topic

At one time I had issues #1-#170 in CGC 9.8 condition.  Because of a family emergency and my oldest daughter's wedding I had to sell 90% of my CGC collection.  I no longer have Walking Dead #1 and I'm not fishing for validation to hold onto a book. Why would you assume that?  I'm merely bringing up a topic to discuss which we all have the right to do.

I also DO understand the difference between Comichron's sales numbers and a "print run".  Like you said there have been many forums dedicated to it.  Why are you assuming I don't?  There have been ample Walking Dead threads and I can't recall one thread that thought the 7200+ figure was way off.  If there is I would love to read it.  

Let me ask you this how many copies do you think are out there? Let's say you won a million dollars if you could guess within 500 copies of the real number.  What number would you pick?  

The print run for Walking Dead #1 is low.  Even if there are 20% more copies than what was reported we are still looking at less than 9,000 copies.  Let's say it's 30% higher we are still looking at less than 10,000 copies.  The low number of copies available will help the book.  

I do not own this book and I'm not trying to pump up the comic-  which is absurd to think that anyone on a message board could do that.  I'm discussing a comic that I happen to love.  It brought me back to collecting after a 20+ year absence from the hobby.  

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by raybowles

[raybowles]

3 hours ago, Keys_Collector said:

There's lot of personal opinions and biases here towards modern books that is not looking at the facts regarding the overall popularity of the show and how many people want to own Walking Dead #1.  I do not own the book and probably never will as it is over priced in my opinion and has been for quite some time.

But the fact remains that there are millions of Walking Dead fans from those who followed the comic to those who only watched the show.  Whatever the print run (arguing over print run +/-, really guys?) of an actual print run for a much number higher number of people that would like to have it in their collection will help it holds its value for some time.  It has crossed into the pop culture realm and that will help hold its value in the long term.  Who knows with the talk of Rick Grimes movies or where the direction of the show is going.

I have watched it from the beginning until this past season (cut the cord) but plan to pick it back up.  It's been a show of immense peaks and valleys where there were amazing episodes sprinkled in with fillers or terrible plot holes.  It has still remained a show with solid acting for the most part and i've enjoyed overall more then disliked it and I consider myself somewhat of an amateur film/tv critic so try to be rational on my view towards story/acting/plot/cinematography/etc even if I enjoy it. It seems that most of the people who really dislike and talk so poorly about the show never actually stuck along for the ride that made the show worthwhile.  Nor am I surprised to see people turned off by the continued introduction of characters or story lines that are important for representation but don't fit their narrow typical ideas of what they want to see on the show (pointing towards the PC comment but not going to delve further into this).

What is the value currently of Walking Dead 1 9.8?  Check GPA/GoCollect for FMV but there is also personal value that each buyer can place on a book.  A friend of mine has a black mature reader 9.8 and got an offer for $2500 recently and turned it down.  I asked him if he was crazy and he said that he really doesn't want to sell it as its an iconic book to him and he views the black lettered version as more of a 1st print with more value.  This coming from a guy who's sold more expensive silver age key books and has only a handful of comics left in his collection.  I don't agree with him but that's where personal value for each collector comes into play.

Good post.  

[ItsJustRyan]

Hey Ray 👋 

I quit watching the show years ago. Reason... it got played out and the plots started sucking. Rinse repeat rinse repeat. 

How have you been these past three or four years?

[ItsJustRyan]

9 hours ago, raybowles said:

Good post.  

I bought a WD#1 in 9.6 (white letters) recently because 9.8 is great, but the price different isn’t justified for me for a .2 difference in quality. To 99% of the public, they can’t distinguish between a 9.8 and a 9.6, so I’m fine with the 9.6, having saved hundreds to put toward something else. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by ItsJustRyan

[GLCBrad]

21 minutes ago, ItsJustRyan said:

I bought a WD#1 in 9.6 (white letters) recently because 9.8 is great, but the price different isn’t justified for me for a .2 difference in quality. To 99% of the public, they can’t distinguish between a 9.8 and a 9.6, so I’m fine with the 9.6, having saved hundreds to out toward something else. 

Dude 

The man, the myth, the legend has returned!!!

Welcome back to the boards dude  

[ItsJustRyan]

3 minutes ago, GLCBrad said:

Dude 

The man, the myth, the legend has returned!!!

Welcome back to the boards dude  

I worship the worshippers 

Edited May 19, 2020 by ItsJustRyan

[raybowles]

22 hours ago, ItsJustRyan said:

Hey Ray 👋 

I quit watching the show years ago. Reason... it got played out and the plots started sucking. Rinse repeat rinse repeat. 

How have you been these past three or four years?

Besides the lockdown I'm doing ok.  It's good to see you posting again. 

[ItsJustRyan]

50 minutes ago, raybowles said:

Besides the lockdown I'm doing ok.  It's good to see you posting again. 

Good deal. I remember you were pretty core into WD 9.8s. I’m close to a complete raw set.

[raybowles]

3 hours ago, ItsJustRyan said:

Good deal. I remember you were pretty core into WD 9.8s. I’m close to a complete raw set.

I had the entire set #1-#170 in CGC 9.8. Unfortunately I had to sell it plus 90+ percent of my CGC collection last year.  Family emergency plus my oldest daughter got married.

[ItsJustRyan]

3 minutes ago, raybowles said:

I had the entire set #1-#170 in CGC 9.8. Unfortunately I had to sell it plus 90+ percent of my CGC collection last year.  Family emergency plus my oldest daughter got married.

I know how it is. Give and take. Keep collecting. 

[Lazyboy]

On 5/17/2020 at 5:17 PM, raybowles said:

The point is the low print run should help with the value of the comic. If your saying that the 7200+ number is not exactly on the noise then we agree. Let's say just for discussion that the number is 10 percent higher. You are still looking at a print run less than 8,000 copies. That's still a very low number which again helps the value of the book.

Do you think the print run is over 8000? Over 10,000?  If so do you have any evidence to back that up?  

I'm not trying to argue with you. If you have evidence I would love to see it. 

There's some discussion in this thread.