APDallas Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 So I found this little tidbit. In issue #258 of Amazing Spiderman on the last page there is a container in the Fantastic Four headquarters where the black costume comes to life. Could this be the first appearance of Venom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 No. It's an early symbiote appearance, and - in fact, considered part of the "Alien Costume" saga that runs through ASM # 252 - 259. I'm looking at the trade paperback - literally titled "Amazing Spider-Man: The Saga of the Alien Costume" - right now. The alien symbiote definitionally doesn't become Venom until it fuses with Eddie Brock, so its first appearance are the cameos in ASM 298-299 and Web of Spider-Man 18, with the first *full* appearance (the one that counts) coming in ASM 300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APDallas Posted May 16, 2020 Author Share Posted May 16, 2020 57 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said: No. It's an early symbiote appearance, and - in fact, considered part of the "Alien Costume" saga that runs through ASM # 252 - 259. I'm looking at the trade paperback - literally titled "Amazing Spider-Man: The Saga of the Alien Costume" - right now. The alien symbiote definitionally doesn't become Venom until it fuses with Eddie Brock, so its first appearance are the cameos in ASM 298-299 and Web of Spider-Man 18, with the first *full* appearance (the one that counts) coming in ASM 300. Thanks for clearing that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valiantman Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Gatsby77 said: The alien symbiote definitionally doesn't become Venom until it fuses with Eddie Brock, so its first appearance are the cameos in ASM 298-299 and Web of Spider-Man 18, with the first *full* appearance (the one that counts) coming in ASM 300. Am I remembering correctly that Web of Spider-Man #18 has an "arm" (no costume) that doesn't trigger Peter's "Spidey-sense" and that Web of Spider-Man #24 has a "black costumed arm" that grabs Peter (again, no "Spidey-sense")? Edited May 16, 2020 by valiantman BuscemasAvengers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning55 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 And of course, the first appearance of the black costume itself is in Secret Wars 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Lightning55 said: And of course, the first appearance of the black costume itself is in Secret Wars 8. Only continuity-wise... before the earlier backstory was told about how it came to be imprisoned in that machine (plus whatever earlier nonsense Marvel has published in the last two decades). The first appearance of the black costume is ASM 252. GeeksAreMyPeeps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGsimba77 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 4 hours ago, valiantman said: Am I remembering correctly that Web of Spider-Man #18 has an "arm" (no costume) that doesn't trigger Peter's "Spidey-sense" and that Web of Spider-Man #24 has a "black costumed arm" that grabs Peter (again, no "Spidey-sense")? Yup that's how it goes. Only thing is in Web of #24 its not clear that it's a "costumed" arm just an arm that appears black reaching out from a window because it may or may not be in a shadow. There's definitely no white patch on the hand! I'm pretty sure you're well aware there's no clear indication at all in either of the WOS issues of anything related to Venom.... And the revelation in the 90's from marvel that those issues reflected a "behind the scenes" Eddie Brock. My view is that Michelinie wanted to do something with the symbiote but hadn't yet decided on anything concrete so he flirted around with a character who hated Peter and could bypass the spidey sense. Marvel decided to retcon #18 years later as an offical appearance. Pretty sure you also knew that Btw there was an effort by Mcfarlane back then to hog up undue credit for Venom but I don't wanna digress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeksAreMyPeeps Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 minute ago, MGsimba77 said: Yup that's how it goes. Only thing is in Web of #24 its not clear that it's a "costumed" arm just an arm that appears black reaching out from a window because it may or may not be in a shadow. There's definitely no white patch on the hand! I'm pretty sure you're well aware there's no clear indication at all in either of the WOS issues of anything related to Venom.... And the revelation in the 90's from marvel that those issues reflected a "behind the scenes" Eddie Brock. My view is that Michelinie wanted to do something with the symbiote but hadn't yet decided on anything concrete so he flirted around with a character who hated Peter and could bypass the spidey sense. Marvel decided to retcon #18 years later as an offical appearance. Pretty sure you also knew that Btw there was an effort by Mcfarlane back then to hog up undue credit for Venom but I don't wanna digress... There are interviews with Michelinie where he acknowledges that these "cameos" were intended to lead up to Venom. Only he had conceived Venom (not sure if the name was already in place) as a female character. The idea was revived when they needed something big for ASM 300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeksAreMyPeeps Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/10/09/venom-was-originally-a-woman-who-blamed-her-miscarriage-on-spider-man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGsimba77 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 minute ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said: There are interviews with Michelinie where he acknowledges that these "cameos" were intended to lead up to Venom. Only he had conceived Venom (not sure if the name was already in place) as a female character. The idea was revived when they needed something big for ASM 300. Yes the female thing was kind of indicated in #18 with the hand coming from someone wearing a pinkish long sleeved shirt. This is why I suspect he was still trying to devise something and was just flirting around tossing ideas back then. I don't believe the name Venom was in place in '86. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, MGsimba77 said: 20 minutes ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said: There are interviews with Michelinie where he acknowledges that these "cameos" were intended to lead up to Venom. Only he had conceived Venom (not sure if the name was already in place) as a female character. The idea was revived when they needed something big for ASM 300. Yes the female thing was kind of indicated in #18 with the hand coming from someone wearing a pinkish long sleeved shirt. This is why I suspect he was still trying to devise something and was just flirting around tossing ideas back then. I don't believe the name Venom was in place in '86. Finally an answer, I probably could have googled it, but I read WoS #18, looking for this clue that people kept mentioning to see what I thought of it.... I read my copy through, thought I missed it, flipped back through it and figured it was at the beginning somehow when Parker is getting the suit out of the closet. I'm lazy but I do remember him being shoved, but I don't recall too much reaction to the person who shoved. I'll have to reread with this pink sleeved culprit in mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valiantman Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 13 hours ago, MGsimba77 said: Yup that's how it goes. Only thing is in Web of #24 its not clear that it's a "costumed" arm just an arm that appears black reaching out from a window because it may or may not be in a shadow. There's definitely no white patch on the hand! Unless the colorist made a mistake, I think we can say that's a black costumed arm... Peter's pants are white and his socks are brown, but the arm and hand between them stay black. That's no shadow or the sock would be black in the shade. As far as the white patch goes, we can't tell which hand this is. It looks like a right hand to me, so the white patch would be pointing toward the street, not the reader. Yes, it was all "retconned" later, but there's definitely a structure of the plan in place at this point - all black villain that doesn't trigger Spidey-sense. If it's supposed to be a woman in Web of Spider-Man #24, her bicep and forearm are drawn bigger than Peter's in this panel. From Web of Spider-Man #24 (March 1987) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valiantman Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 "Pink sleeve" from Web of Spider-Man #18 It's definitely pink, but the way that page is colored, one of the men helping is wearing an even lighter pink suit... so it's not obviously a woman's arm that shoved Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 21 hours ago, Lazyboy said: 21 hours ago, Lightning55 said: And of course, the first appearance of the black costume itself is in Secret Wars 8. Only continuity-wise... before the earlier backstory was told about how it came to be imprisoned in that machine (plus whatever earlier nonsense Marvel has published in the last two decades). The first appearance of the black costume is ASM 252. As I've said before . . . it's anyone of the foregoing issues mentioned above (if I have one and I'm selling it!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 4 hours ago, valiantman said: It's definitely pink, but the way that page is colored, one of the men helping is wearing an even lighter pink suit... so it's not obviously a woman's arm that shoved Peter. Only women can wear pink??? littledoom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 4 hours ago, valiantman said: From Web of Spider-Man #24 (March 1987) Runs to garage full of short boxes . . . ADAMANTIUM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGsimba77 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I'm wondering if Michelinie even had input with the inking? If not then i don't know if the color of the sleeve or the suit would be relevant? Who the heck would have drawn a guy wearing a pink suit anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valiantman Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, divad said: 8 hours ago, valiantman said: It's definitely pink, but the way that page is colored, one of the men helping is wearing an even lighter pink suit... so it's not obviously a woman's arm that shoved Peter. Only women can wear pink??? Good point - it was 1987, I'm guessing that guy in the pink suit was just a big fan of Miami Vice. Edited May 17, 2020 by valiantman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjonahjameson11 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Web of Spidey 18 or 24, they’re both a bore. ASM 299 is the one that’s undervalued, with its gorgeous full page splash of the 1st appearance of Venom. ASM 298, the 1st McSpidey art is important, but not as important as ASM 299. ASM 299 should be worth more than 298. MGsimba77 and littledoom 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 3 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said: ASM 299 is the one that’s undervalued, with its gorgeous full page splash of the 1st appearance of Venom. ASM 298, the 1st McSpidey art is important, but not as important as ASM 299. ASM 299 should be worth more than 298. But, but . . . ALL of us already know that. MGsimba77 and littledoom 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
