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July Heritage Auction Sorta Shaping Up!
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519 posts in this topic

34 minutes ago, grapeape said:

If he had said there’s no difference  in value between an unpublished cover and a published cover I’d agree.

I’ve seen covers rejected by publishers that subjectively were better then the published cover. The market would undoubtedly value the published cover more.

On merit, the eye and heart of the art purveyor may prefer the unpublished.

Cheers

🍇+🦍

Nothing to argue with there.  Published is usually going to be worth more and sales bear that out. 

What is not borne out by sales results, or the opinions of most people, so far as I can see, is the comparison between an unpublished cover and a commission piece.  

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53 minutes ago, bluechip said:

Nothing to argue with there.  Published is usually going to be worth more and sales bear that out. 

What is not borne out by sales results, or the opinions of most people, so far as I can see, is the comparison between an unpublished cover and a commission piece.  

Civil discourse

leads

to agreement

sometimes haha

I truly appreciate you and everybody on this board

🍇+🦍

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On 7/28/2020 at 1:07 PM, Timely said:

To me, buying an unpublished cover is akin to buying a vintage commission piece. It rests on it's own merit as a piece of art and nothing more.

(without a new SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE This past week........I sure needed that!) :)

Edited by romitaman
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7 hours ago, romitaman said:

(without a new SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE This past week........I sure needed that!) :)

I don’t think you understand my meaning. To me there is no nostalgia sentiments to an unpublished cover, especially if the image is drastically different than the published version. If back in 1962 Ditko did yet another version of Amazing Fantasy #15 and gave it to a fan and it was discovered today, what would that sell for? DRASTICALLY lower! Why? No one other than that fan who got it back in 1962 has any nostalgic feelings towards it. The art would sell on its own merit as a piece of art.

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17 minutes ago, Timely said:

I don’t think you understand my meaning. To me there is no nostalgia sentiments to an unpublished cover, especially if the image is drastically different than the published version. If back in 1962 Ditko did yet another version of Amazing Fantasy #15 and gave it to a fan and it was discovered today, what would that sell for? DRASTICALLY lower! Why? No one other than that fan who got it back in 1962 has any nostalgic feelings towards it. The art would sell on its own merit as a piece of art.

Hi, West.

I think the sticking point in your statement isn't so much about the lack of nostalgia as your valuation of it as nothing more than a vintage commission piece.

If you placed another version of AF 15 (unpublished) by Ditko vs a Ditko ASM commission illustrated on the same day (or week or year), do you really think they would sell for the same price? 

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^ totally.   At the low end there may not be much difference between the two but the higher you go the more the vintage unpublished will separate itself from vintage commission IMO

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I think adding the trade dress makes all the difference between vintage commission and vintage unpublished covers. It just feels more special, more official. It’s why the “certain dealers” keep buying old commisions and slapping badly made stats on them and calling them “unpublished covers”, it moves the product better.

They occupy the middle ground between published vintage and finished convention/fan commissions, moving closer to the published than commission side.
 

 

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Like sticking a GT or Dyno sticker on your knock-off Huffy tho.

You can add pegs, and change the mushroom grips and stickers out, but it’ll always be a Huffy.


:baiting:

 

Edited by ESeffinga
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1 hour ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Hi, West.

I think the sticking point in your statement isn't so much about the lack of nostalgia as your valuation of it as nothing more than a vintage commission piece.

If you placed another version of AF 15 (unpublished) by Ditko vs a Ditko ASM commission illustrated on the same day (or week or year), do you really think they would sell for the same price? 

I don't know.  But look at the ASM #100 cover commission from 1994 Romita did.  It sold in HA for $77,675 (link below). Who's to say what an unused cover or a commission cover redue will go for compared to one another.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/john-romita-sr-the-amazing-spider-man-100-cover-re-creation-original-art-1994-/a/7036-92223.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

 

Also, if you look on HA at the Batman #210 unused cover, it went for $3734 in 2014.  That's about what I'd expect a vintage commissioned cover redue to sell for.

The used cover (different artist) went for $30,070, also what I'd expect in comparison.

 

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4 minutes ago, Timely said:

I don't know.  But look at the ASM #100 cover commission from 1994 Romita did.  It sold in HA for $77,675 (link below). Who's to say what an unused cover or a commission cover redue will go for compared to one another.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/john-romita-sr-the-amazing-spider-man-100-cover-re-creation-original-art-1994-/a/7036-92223.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

 

Also, if you look on HA at the Batman #210 unused cover, it went for $3734 in 2014.  That's about what I'd expect a vintage commissioned cover redue to sell for.

The used cover (different artist) went for $30,070, also what I'd expect in comparison.

 

Yes, that 1994 ASM 100 cover recreation is stunning, and its also done one twice-up board, compared to the original which was done on 11x17 board.  Its also Romita inks over Romita pencils, which IMHO is more desirable than the Giacoia inks over Romita pencils on the original, and it was done for a well publicized major auction house event, instead of a commission for Joe Doe.  This one is definitely an outlier.

Re the Batman 210 unused cover, I'm not sure how you can draw a comparison with the published cover, illustrated by a different artist? its not apples to apples, that's for certain.

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41 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Yes, that 1994 ASM 100 cover recreation is stunning, and its also done one twice-up board, compared to the original which was done on 11x17 board.  Its also Romita inks over Romita pencils, which IMHO is more desirable than the Giacoia inks over Romita pencils on the original, and it was done for a well publicized major auction house event, instead of a commission for Joe Doe.  This one is definitely an outlier.

Re the Batman 210 unused cover, I'm not sure how you can draw a comparison with the published cover, illustrated by a different artist? its not apples to apples, that's for certain.

I wasn't drawing a comparison per se, just stating sales facts.

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On 8/4/2020 at 11:08 AM, Timely said:

I wasn't drawing a comparison per se, just stating sales facts.

that lost asm 82 cover would sell for more than the published asm 82...easily ..... if you want to call it a glorified commission that's  ok..it would still sell for more at auction

in turn I believe Ditko's unpublished asm 10 cover would sell for more than jack kirby's published asm 10 cover if both came up for auction at the same time....

(but with different artists its a little harder to compare values...... i know)

but hey..  everyone has their opinion.... and it's all good as we will never ever find out above for sure...so we are all right .. sorta like saying we personally know which hero is strongest....LOL

Edited by romitaman
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On 8/8/2020 at 10:22 PM, romitaman said:

that lost asm 82 cover would sell for more than the published asm 82...easily ..... if you want to call it a glorified commission that's  ok..it would still sell for more at auction

in turn I believe Ditko's unpublished asm 10 cover would sell for more than jack kirby's published asm 10 cover if both came up for auction at the same time....

(but with different artists its a little harder to compare values...... i know)

but hey..  everyone has their opinion.... and it's all good as we will never ever find out above for sure...so we are all right .. sorta like saying we personally know which hero is strongest....LOL

I remember seeing you list that ASM 82 unused cover and wanting to buy it but it was already gone.  The price seemed lower than it should be, compared to other covers with lesser images by lesser artists.  

Timely emphasizes nostalgia as if he feels that can only come into play if the buyer remembers seeing that very image in the month it was published.  But nostalgic feelings come into play whenever you see any image of a character you liked in the past.  Even if you like the character today, part of what you like is the long relationship you have with them.  If the work is by an artist you like, then even more so.  If it's contemporary to a specially remembered time in your life (or in the arc of the character, even more so). 

So, even if art was drawn and/or published before you were born, it can still make you nostalgic.  

Some artists, like in this discussion Ditko and Romita, evolve their styles as the draw.  So much so that a keen eye can pinpoint the year, even the month, when Ditko drew a particular image.  Same for Romita.   The unused ASM 82 cover (like the DItko unused 10) has a look that Romita would only have created at that precise point in his history with the character.  Hence, when you see it you feel a bit of nostalgia, especially if you remember that particular story, as well.  And because you haven't seen that precise image before, that feeling is also new

If you're ALL about seeing exactly what you saw when you were a kid and you first read that book, those feelings won't be as strong with you,   But unless it was a painted cover, then what you're seeing in the original art is never gonna be exactly what you saw back then, either.       

Edited by bluechip
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I only have 1 unpublished piece which is a cover and I can say that me and the others who bid on it valued it more than if it was a commission from the time period by the artist and depicted character. For me when I bid on it my motivation was the historical significance of it in relation to the character and thought it was cool to see the notes made by the artist asking about the issues to it. Some unpublished pieces also have interesting back stories to them that relates to what was happening at the comic companies and the artists during that time period which is I see as a plus. I also thought it was nice visually despite only being pencils too. 

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On 8/4/2020 at 6:58 AM, ESeffinga said:

Like sticking a GT or Dyno sticker on your knock-off Huffy tho.

You can add pegs, and change the mushroom grips and stickers out, but it’ll always be a Huffy.


:baiting:

 

Freakin Huffy!!! Haven’t heard about those since childhood!! Love this board,

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3 hours ago, Matches_Malone said:

 

Didn't  Danzig own this?....anyway   What is the estimate on something like this?

I think he did (does) I’m loathe to estimate this one. I just don’t know. Could be any kind of price. I dig it that’s for sure.

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