LIVE PANEL TONIGHT ON COMIC ART COLLECTING! 2 2

[exitmusicblue]

Whoa... years ago I got my Betty & Me cover from George at a very reasonable price, didn't know he was a living legend !

[vodou]

7 hours ago, sfilosa said:

and around 90% or more of the top selling pieces, never show up in anyone's CAF gallery.

Eh...why would they?

Out of one dealer* vault, comp created = mission accomplished, and right into another dealer vault (or even...gah!...the same dealer vault, via the rather transparent yet infamous: I'll trade you like kind fer it jig )

 

*or collector--dealer

[vodou]

8 hours ago, sfilosa said:

Lastly, I was the underbidder on the Schomburg Invaders page. Probably drove the price up a few grand (seemed that way). While it really only had one good panel, the fact that there are only seven comic art pages by Schomburg after 1951, makes it a rarity that in my mind, outweighs a ton of art (even from that time). Plenty of average covers go for more than that. I kind of like the idea of owning pieces that are rare. Unfortunately, this will not be one of those.

Consider yourself lucky. I kept mum on this one for a while (I really don't like raining on people's art day parade) but since you already nailed it: not great art. Winner bought a great hobby signature, but not a great hobby piece. To each their own but I'm sure my comment here is telling as to what I collect or rather will stretch mightily and pay up for. You almost did that but didn't

[jjonahjameson11]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2020 at 1:35 PM, glenbru said:

Episode 14 tonight!!!

 

Yeah, I echo the sentiments of others that the Heritage recap was insightful.  What I'd really like to see are some pre-auction estimates from this group & the rationale behind them.

[sfilosa]

27 minutes ago, vodou said:

Eh...why would they?

Out of one dealer* vault, comp created = mission accomplished, and right into another dealer vault (or even...gah!...the same dealer vault, via the rather transparent yet infamous: I'll trade you like kind fer it jig )

 

*or collector--dealer

There is no doubt that a lot of sales are really like kind exchanges (and that's what we will tell the IRS ). But I'm not sure it would make sense to go through Heritage as they are going to get a cut. Could show up more when CAF reports a "dealer sale" (at list price), but states it could have been sold for less or part trade.

 

[marktom]

24 minutes ago, sfilosa said:

There is no doubt that a lot of sales are really like kind exchanges (and that's what we will tell the IRS ). But I'm not sure it would make sense to go through Heritage as they are going to get a cut. Could show up more when CAF reports a "dealer sale" (at list price), but states it could have been sold for less or part trade.

 

The fees associated with Heritage are just looked at as advertising costs. If you have enough art of a similar kind , or are trying to establish new highs in the market, Heritage fees can be a small price to pay. It's a fairly widespread practice unfortunately - at least from a legitimate buyer's/collectors perspective. It's been going on for years and has graduated from being accomplished by word of mouth, to the more effective (and expensive) use of auction results data. In a lot of instances it's not that hard to spot. 

[grapeape]

Nice breakdown of the HA Signature Auction September 10-13. Right off the bat the Elias COC 19 cover. Listen I might be wrong and biased based on my own personal interest in the cover. The gang focused on the other covers in the run, what they went for, and lightly touched on the connection to Danzig.

For me the art later used as the album cover to Die, Die My Darling by the Misfits Is what drove the bidding. On my life I budgeted $40k to win that cover and expected to take heat from fellow collectors for spending that much. It sailed well beyond that early on in the offering.

As a comic cover alone it stands as a visceral thrilling attraction to death, sex smoking and drinking. However I believe The added crossover into music culture and the cult attraction to the Misfits ,I’m certain was in play. This was a music-Misfits fan that bought this IMO.

Now saying all that the new owner might step out and say he just likes lady skeletons.

Other neat conversations...

Finch X-Men cover....

Kamandi splash...the more I look at it the sorrier I am I didn’t go for it.

The Avengers 58 splash...

Look forward to future shows.

🍇+🦍

Edited September 18, 2020 by grapeape

[delekkerste]

13 hours ago, grapeape said:

Nice breakdown of the HA Signature Auction September 10-13. Right off the bat the Elias COC 19 cover. Listen I might be wrong and biased based on my own personal interest in the cover. The gang focused on the other covers in the run, what they went for, and lightly touched on the connection to Danzig.

For me the art later used as the album cover to Die, Die My Darling by the Misfits Is what drove the bidding. On my life I budgeted $40k to win that cover and expected to take heat from fellow collectors for spending that much. It sailed well beyond that early on in the offering.

As a comic cover alone it stands as a visceral thrilling attraction to death, sex smoking and drinking. However I believe The added crossover into music culture and the cult attraction to the Misfits ,I’m certain was in play. This was a music-Misfits fan that bought this IMO.

Now saying all that the new owner might step out and say he just likes lady skeletons.

I had to laugh when someone posted a comment during the discussion that they thought the cover went $75K too cheap.  I watched the replay on YouTube, but, if I had been watching it live, I would have commented, "Some people thought it went $825K too cheap!"  

(Not me, but, I saw some people on social media predicting that it would be a $1 million cover.   I thought it would do mid-$100Ks because it's 2020, and that wasn't far off the mark).  

I personally think the Misfits connection was overblown (not like there are a ton of deep-pocketed, OA-collecting Misfits fans out there, amirite?) I mean, it might have been a fan who won it, or, it could very well have just been someone into PCH and/or vintage trophy pieces.  

I can see why this cover would be worth so much more than the Wood EC cover, but, I did like that Wood cover very much and thought it went a bit low.  I even half-thought about throwing in a last second bid on it, but, then I did the math and added in that 8.875% sales tax and was like...naaaaah, don't need it that badly.  Speaking of which, with prices as high as they are, that extra 8.875% (which can, in some cases, be the equivalent of multiple additional bidding increments) is a real killer, especially if you're going up against a dealer with a resale certificate or a collector in a no-sales tax jurisdiction - it's like fighting with one arm tied behind your back.  

I also thought it was funny how they all thought the ASM Moon Knight cover went high; I think Yoram was the only person who thought it went cheap! 

Finch X-Men cover > Kirby/Sinnott FF splash.  I have to agree with their sentiments on this one, even being cognizant of the very real changing demographics in the hobby.  Even among modern OA, I just don't see that Finch piece being all that.  

[Crowzilla]

58 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

(Not me, but, I saw some people on social media predicting that it would be a $1 million cover.   I thought it would do mid-$100Ks because it's 2020, and that wasn't far off the mark).  

I personally think the Misfits connection was overblown (not like there are a ton of deep-pocketed, OA-collecting Misfits fans out there, amirite?) I mean, it might have been a fan who won it, or, it could very well have just been someone into PCH and/or vintage trophy pieces. 

Once the Zeppelin 1 cover sold for $325K, doesn't that kind of set the cap as to what album art will bring right now?

(Or at least until Dark Side or Velvet Underground come to auction?)

[Dick O.]

Love auction postmortems; keep up the great work guys!

 

[grapeape]

5 hours ago, delekkerste said:

I had to laugh when someone posted a comment during the discussion that they thought the cover went $75K too cheap.  I watched the replay on YouTube, but, if I had been watching it live, I would have commented, "Some people thought it went $825K too cheap!"  

(Not me, but, I saw some people on social media predicting that it would be a $1 million cover.   I thought it would do mid-$100Ks because it's 2020, and that wasn't far off the mark).  

I personally think the Misfits connection was overblown (not like there are a ton of deep-pocketed, OA-collecting Misfits fans out there, amirite?) I mean, it might have been a fan who won it, or, it could very well have just been someone into PCH and/or vintage trophy pieces.  

I can see why this cover would be worth so much more than the Wood EC cover, but, I did like that Wood cover very much and thought it went a bit low.  I even half-thought about throwing in a last second bid on it, but, then I did the math and added in that 8.875% sales tax and was like...naaaaah, don't need it that badly.  Speaking of which, with prices as high as they are, that extra 8.875% (which can, in some cases, be the equivalent of multiple additional bidding increments) is a real killer, especially if you're going up against a dealer with a resale certificate or a collector in a no-sales tax jurisdiction - it's like fighting with one arm tied behind your back.  

I also thought it was funny how they all thought the ASM Moon Knight cover went high; I think Yoram was the only person who thought it went cheap! 

Finch X-Men cover > Kirby/Sinnott FF splash.  I have to agree with their sentiments on this one, even being cognizant of the very real changing demographics in the hobby.  Even among modern OA, I just don't see that Finch piece being all that.  

Yes...believe me the average Misfits fan probably is looking for coins under the sofa cushion to buy Taco Bell. Having a family is the only thing that kept me from still being that guy.

I still think it might have been a music aficionado that bought the piece. I believe we will know someday. 
 

Wally Wood can do very little wrong in my eyes so I’m with you on the cover.

Living the dream in Southern California but yeah, a dealer has me beat 9 times out of ten if he really wants a piece. I round sales tax in my head at 10% + 20% BP. It’s daunting on some pieces I’m pursuing. You’re hoping to stay in a range and those add ins can price you out quickly. Even when you bake those in psychologically you can lose confidence in the ability to make a reasonable winning bid, sans the emotional heat of the moment high wire bid now 5 4 3 2 1....

Kirby Kamandi....that should have been a win. I preguesstimated $28K. I had time to rationalize that. But I didn’t pull the trigger. I regret that as it went 25K.

The Finch. I don’t get it. I won’t knock it. That couldn’t have been a speculator buying that one could it? That had to be a highly desired nostalgia buy? To each his own.

Modern/newer art vs. silver and Bronze Age? My nostalgia and artistic appreciation belongs with the latter. We have so much to learn over the next ten-twenty years. I no doubt will add a few Tradd Moore, Frank Quitely type pages to my portfolio. I’ve wanted to do this for awhile just haven’t found the right deals.

The ASM cover went “heavy” “high.”

I understand why the panel said that. I just disagree. It’s a well known cover and it’s an ASM cover. I think it’s one of the artists “stiffer” compositions and still it’s a childhood favorite. I bet the bidders  felt the same way and Moon Knight has had a strange effect on speculators over the last few years. 
 

The FF splash final bid felt light. It’s really gorgeous. Sometimes we lament what’s missing from art and miss out on the good things right before our eyes.

I was hoping Mike would mention his Avengers 52 splash. That sat on his sight for six years at $20K no takers.  Needless to say it sold during the auction of The Avengers 58 meteoric rise to 90K. WTF that page just sold last year for $25-$30K. Are people not paying attention. Still it was mentioned by another boardie early on “Do you think the death of C Boseman would influence bidding?” I believed that it definitely would. The price jump surely had to be influenced by that.

I would love to hear what Mike had to say about his 52 splash. Won’t that go for $100K at auction now the precedent set?

Gene thanks for your thoughts. Always great insight buddy.

mike the grapeApe

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by grapeape

[BCarter27]

Great live panel last night with K Gearon and James S. Going to slowly catch up on the other vids on the channel. Kudos to Bill Cox!

[jjonahjameson11]

4 hours ago, delekkerste said:

 

 

I also thought it was funny how they all thought the ASM Moon Knight cover went high; I think Yoram was the only person who thought it went cheap! 

 

I am the only one who stated publicly that it went cheap, but several others agreed offline that it did go cheap.  It seems that the increase in OA values is slow on the uptick compared with comics for characters who have been optioned for a TV show or movie appearance, but eventually, the OA prices will come around, as they've done for other characters/groups.

[grapeape]

49 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

I am the only one who stated publicly that it went cheap, but several others agreed offline that it did go cheap.  It seems that the increase in OA values is slow on the uptick compared with comics for characters who have been optioned for a TV show or movie appearance, but eventually, the OA prices will come around, as they've done for other characters/groups.

You were and yes Moon Knight in particular as far as comics and comic art speculation. 

[glendgold]

When I saw the FF 81 splash, I was thrilled -- I haven't seen it pop up before -- but the more I looked at it the less I liked it.  Brilliantly drawn and all, but the center is defiantly empty. Kirby has an intuitive understanding of composition, and that big dead space in the middle is weird. It just reminded me that after FF 76, he was less and less thrilled to be there, and the interior splashes became increasingly gratuitous.  This one wasn't bad, but how hard would it have been to have Mr Fantastic making a lasso with one arm to fill that dead space?  Anyway, it's very cool but it's not A+ to me.  Now, if the FF 95 Thing-Holding-up-a-Building interior splash ever shows, I bet that one goes way higher. Maybe even Sal Buscema money.

[BuraddoRun]

I didn't like that Thor cover they seemed to really like that had Blake transforming into Thor.

K Gearon commented in my CAF gallery shortly after I got my collection posted up. He's a fellow fan of Damion Scott's work on Batgirl. Seems like a nice guy.

Fun show. I'll have to catch up on the past episodes and keep up with new new ones.

[exitmusicblue]

6 hours ago, BuraddoRun said:

I didn't like that Thor cover they seemed to really like that had Blake transforming into Thor.

K Gearon commented in my CAF gallery shortly after I got my collection posted up. He's a fellow fan of Damion Scott's work on Batgirl. Seems like a nice guy.

Fun show. I'll have to catch up on the past episodes and keep up with new new ones.

He's a standup guy.  Anyone know if he's on the CGC boards?

[ComicArtPage.com1]

[glenbru]

 

[Will_K]

They went from Scott getting a sketch from Kirby at 16 yo and other artists to him setting up at a show and selling a Wrightson piece.  I'm still not sure how Scott became a dealer.  It would've been nice to hear about that. 

I liked hearing the Klaus Janson coin flip story again.  Scott told it on Felix's podcast.  I just like hearing Scott saying how Janson is like... "whaddaya you mean ?"

I didn't do a lot of business with him but I'm pretty sure my first published OA was from Scott.  It was a Garcia-Lopez page from the Deadman mini-series.