Am I the only one who finds the Comic Connect grades on raw off? 3 3

[zosocane]

i've been buying from them since 2002.  Best inventory by far, good customer service, and their inventory, generally speaking (I'm not talking about their consignment books), is fairly priced (unlike many other dealers).  They sell a ton of slabs, so that removes a lot of the uncertainty, but, in my opinion, they are more loose than not on their grading of raws.  When I see their advertised grade, I generally drop a book by a grade (i.e., a .5) against their advertised grade so that I feel comfortable about what I'm buying, if it's a raw.  I've bought some raws that were overgraded  by more than the grade I ascribed, and I returned them, no questions asked.  I would say about 60% of the Metro/CC raws that I sent to CGC to get slabbed came back with a lower grade than the advertised grade (usually a .5 grade to a full point grade).  The other 40% or so of the raws that I sent to get graded came back spot-on or, in less frequent cases, with a higher grade (generally no higher than a .5 bump).

For spot-on grading (in my opinion), go to Bob Storms (Highgradecomics.com) and Steve Ritter/Worldwide (wwcomics.com).  Quality Comix also grades tightly.  HA is generally good, but from time to time overgrades (I've returned to them a couple of times).  One peeve I have with HA is they don't list the page quality.  PQ is so important.  On the other end of the spectrum (undergrading) is Mycomicshop.com.  I think they undergrade to mitigate return risk.  But they grade so low that you are sometimes left guessing if the book has some latent issues that you can't see from the scan.

[William-James88]

4 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Metropolis invented the current 100 point grading system, and is one of the highest grossing shops on the planet.  Why are you upset they don't use CGC's standards but it's okay if MCS doesn't.  

 

The grading standards are actually similar across the board. You can read them on mycomicshop, heritage and metropolis. The problem is Metropolis does not adhere to the grading standards they themselves set.

Perfect example, this here is taken from their site: https://www.comicconnect.com/article/grading_criteria

"GOOD (GD) (ONE 1.8-2.5)

A copy in this grade has all pages and covers, although There may be small pieces missing inside; the largest piece allowed from front or back cover is a ½” triangle or square ¼” by ¼”. Books in this grade are commonly creased, scuffed, abraded, soiled and may have as much as a 2” spine split, but are still completely readable. Often, paper quality is low but not brittle. Cover reflectivity is low, and in some cases, completely absent. This grade can have a moderate accumulation of defects, but still maintains its basic structural integrity."

They clearly chose not to adhere to that.

And by their standards on the link I posted, that Marvel Family 48  wouldn't even qualify for a 5.5, so I have no clue why they put it as a 7.0.

[Artboy99]

30 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Metropolis invented the current 100 point grading system, and is one of the highest grossing shops on the planet.  Why are you upset they don't use CGC's standards but it's okay if MCS doesn't.  

Perhaps if CGC standardized their grading and actually published theses standards, dealers might use them. 

A very fair comment, but there are ways to ensure your customers are happy. Mycomicshop tends to grade conservatively and in my buying experiences with them I have never been disappointed when buying raw books.

It is the exact opposite experience with Metropolis/Comicconnect. In fact it is so bad I am confident it is purposefully done. My opinion is you want your customers reporting positively on forums such as this. Instead well, read the thread.

[Artboy99]

39 minutes ago, zosocane said:

i've been buying from them since 2002.  Best inventory by far, good customer service, and their inventory, generally speaking (I'm not talking about their consignment books), is fairly priced (unlike many other dealers).  They sell a ton of slabs, so that removes a lot of the uncertainty, but, in my opinion, they are more loose than not on their grading of raws.  When I see their advertised grade, I generally drop a book by a grade (i.e., a .5) against their advertised grade so that I feel comfortable about what I'm buying, if it's a raw.  I've bought some raws that were overgraded  by more than the grade I ascribed, and I returned them, no questions asked.  I would say about 60% of the Metro/CC raws that I sent to CGC to get slabbed came back with a lower grade than the advertised grade (usually a .5 grade to a full point grade).  The other 40% or so of the raws that I sent to get graded came back spot-on or, in less frequent cases, with a higher grade (generally no higher than a .5 bump).

For spot-on grading (in my opinion), go to Bob Storms (Highgradecomics.com) and Steve Ritter/Worldwide (wwcomics.com).  Quality Comix also grades tightly.  HA is generally good, but from time to time overgrades (I've returned to them a couple of times).  One peeve I have with HA is they don't list the page quality.  PQ is so important.  On the other end of the spectrum (undergrading) is Mycomicshop.com.  I think they undergrade to mitigate return risk.  But they grade so low that you are sometimes left guessing if the book has some latent issues that you can't see from the scan.

Excellent post.

My experience with getting Metropolis raw books graded is 100% of them came back as lower and the range has been 3 full grade points lower to 0.5 lower.  None of my raw purchases have ever matched the grade they assigned when the books are CGC graded. I would be thrilled if just once the advertised grade was lower than the CGC assigned grade but that is a pipe dream.

I also can confirm I have excellent experiences with Bob Storms, Stephen Ritter and Mycomicshop.

Specific examples:

Bob Storms sold me a Planet Comics 9 that he graded a F that came back CGC 5.5

Stephen Ritter sold me a Planet Comics 61 that he graded a 7.5 that came back a CGC 8.0.

As a happy customer I am pleased to support them both with my positive comments and highly recommend them when people ask me about buying comics.

[Artboy99]

3 minutes ago, Stooge McSchmuck said:

This is exactly why I used to write letters about them to Oh So? in the CBG 25 years ago. They've been terrible graders for at least 25 years and they've always been allowed to slide. I remember asking Maggie why she let the "face of the hobby" make the rest of us look bad with their near-scam grading. 

it took them years to finally add back cover scans to their listings.

[shadroch]

34 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

A very fair comment, but there are ways to ensure your customers are happy. Mycomicshop tends to grade conservatively and in my buying experiences with them I have never been disappointed when buying raw books.

It is the exact opposite experience with Metropolis/Comicconnect. In fact it is so bad I am confident it is purposefully done. My opinion is you want your customers reporting positively on forums such as this. Instead well, read the thread.

As best I can tell, Metropolis is the biggest dealer in vintage comics, so they must be doing something right. I often disagree with their grades, but they provide nice scans and I can judge for myself.  I've had two problems with them. Both were resolved swiftly and to my satisfaction.

When I look at a book with big scans, I dont care what Metro graded it, or what MCS grades it.  I judge for myself, and if the book is a bargain,I bid. If the price isn't right, who cares what someone else graded it.  

[William-James88]

13 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

 

I also can confirm I have excellent experiences with Bob Storms, Stephen Ritter and Mycomicshop.

 

Really cool story about those planet comics, congrats on those! I have had great experiences with Mycomicshop as well. I find their technique of undergrading as a rule pretty smart since the customer wont be dissapointed and since their volume is so great, prices on their auction items usually end up bigger than on other sites due to people knowing the grade might be higher. So in the end, it comes out to the same but the level of satisfaction is higher. And I do like how they also judge their consigned books.

I have dealt with Harley and his grading is top notch. I bought a GA book that looked mint (I had never seen such a pretty book in my life) but since there were some minor rust stains near the staples, he marked it down to a VF, which is the first grade allowing for such a defect, and priced it as such as well. I was more than happy to give him my money. 

 

Someone mentioned Hertiage and while their grading standards are fine (they do hire ex CGC employees) and they know what's what, I really dislike their practice of judging by the cover. For lesser grade/valued GA books, they won't bother removing it from the bag it came to them in and looking inside to see if a coupon has been cut or a page is missing or the book is falling apart. It's not worth their time on the off chance that they catch something. Instead, they'll just accept a return if you find such a flaw for them after you received it. And it can be years later. It's a method that works well enough to keep people coming back. But still, I'd rather they did the work instead of me since they are the ones grading the book.

[Artboy99]

1 minute ago, shadroch said:

As best I can tell, Metropolis is the biggest dealer in vintage comics, so they must be doing something right. I often disagree with their grades, but they provide nice scans and I can judge for myself.  I've had two problems with them. Both were resolved swiftly and to my satisfaction.

When I look at a book with big scans, I dont care what Metro graded it, or what MCS grades it.  I judge for myself, and if the book is a bargain,I bid. If the price isn't right, who cares what someone else graded it.  

is it a good deal though if there are issues with the book that you can't see in the image they post that make it impossible to judge for yourself?

A specific example I can cite is the Startling Terror Tales 11 I purchased from them several years ago. Their grade was 6.5 and from the front cover image posted I agreed. Nice looking book and I paid 6.5 price for it.

The back cover had significant chunks missing from the top of the book's cover and the interior of the book had a severe stain covering 50% of the page it was on. It looked like dried blood or spaghetti but it was there. I have pictures of this if you want to see it. Neither the back cover missing chunks or the interior stain were disclosed. Back then when I made the purchase they didn't post back cover images.

I have many more examples if you want to see them.

In my opinion you have to disclose these issues to your buyers. Why don't they? What is the reason?

Yes they have a good return policy, but isn't it a better business practice to just do the right thing and avoid all the negative comments/ reviews from your customers? As the buyer shouldn't I prefer to keep the book and be happy?

[William-James88]

5 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

it took them years to finally add back cover scans to their listings.

Still not a thing in general: 

 

13 minutes ago, Stooge McSchmuck said:

This is exactly why I used to write letters about them to Oh So? in the CBG 25 years ago. They've been terrible graders for at least 25 years and they've always been allowed to slide. I remember asking Maggie why she let the "face of the hobby" make the rest of us look bad with their near-scam grading. 

I am just learning about them now and have been part of this collecting world for 15 years. For some reason, they never really came upon my radar even though they'd have what I am looking for. And everything just looked so off compared to everything else I experienced. Hence my questions. And I am curious as to what Maggie replied, did she ever? Because I too am curious as to why they are allowed to slide. 

 

 

 

 

[William-James88]

58 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

A very fair comment, but there are ways to ensure your customers are happy. Mycomicshop tends to grade conservatively and in my buying experiences with them I have never been disappointed when buying raw books.

I've found that while CGC does not disclose their grading standards, they are in line with the Overstreet grading guide, at a minimum. Basically, every comic I ever graded using the overstreet standards has come back from CGC in that grade or better.

[William-James88]

10 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

 

The back cover had significant chunks missing from the top of the book's cover and the interior of the book had a severe stain covering 50% of the page it was on. It looked like dried blood 

 

That is definitely a startling tale of terror.

[William-James88]

12 minutes ago, Stooge McSchmuck said:

CGC used Overstreet standards as their initial basis/jumping off  point for their grading standards so this makes sense.

Right, that's what I thought. I mean that's why they use the integers from overstreet and not those from Metropolis. 

In that case, the CGC grading standards are not that much of a black box in terms of universal grades so I don't really see an issue. Using the over street standards should never put you at unfavorable odds when sending books in to CGC.

[Number 6]

Yeah, I decided a long time ago to stop buying raw comics from CC/Metro. 
 

It sounds fine to say ‘look at the book, not the grade’ but in my experience I have to look at what they call a 9.8 if I want to get a NM book. Problem with that is they charge a 9.8 premium and don’t negotiate down beyond 5%. 
 

It’s frustrating because they have an extensive inventory. But I’d rather be patient and do business with dealers like Highgrade and Worldwide where I know I’ll be happy with what I get and what I pay will be more in line with what I receive. 

[The Lions Den]

46 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

Someone mentioned Hertiage and while their grading standards are fine (they do hire ex CGC employees) and they know what's what, I really dislike their practice of judging by the cover. For lesser grade/valued GA books, they won't bother removing it from the bag it came to them in and looking inside to see if a coupon has been cut or a page is missing or the book is falling apart. It's not worth their time on the off chance that they catch something. Instead, they'll just accept a return if you find such a flaw for them after you received it. And it can be years later. It's a method that works well enough to keep people coming back. But still, I'd rather they did the work instead of me since they are the ones grading the book.

I agree 100%...

[zosocane]

31 minutes ago, Stooge McSchmuck said:

CGC used Overstreet standards as their initial basis/jumping off  point for their grading standards so this makes sense.

When i see the old CGC label (early 2000s), I think Overstreet grading guidelines.  Super-strict.  Some say too strict.  Current CGC is influenced by Overstreet, but CGC has developed its own secret sauce from years of experience, and I think their current grading standards are truly what the vast majority of collectors/dealers use as the goal lines.

Edited May 20, 2020 by zosocane

[The Lions Den]

10 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Yeah, I decided a long time ago to stop buying raw comics from CC/Metro. 
 

It sounds fine to say ‘look at the book, not the grade’ but in my experience I have to look at what they call a 9.8 if I want to get a NM book. Problem with that is they charge a 9.8 premium and don’t negotiate down beyond 5%. 
 

It’s frustrating because they have an extensive inventory. But I’d rather be patient and do business with dealers like Highgrade and Worldwide where I know I’ll be happy with what I get and what I pay will be more in line with what I receive. 

This. 

[The Lions Den]

50 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

Yes they have a good return policy, but isn't it a better business practice to just do the right thing and avoid all the negative comments/ reviews from your customers? As the buyer shouldn't I prefer to keep the book and be happy?

Absolutely. Happiness is what it's all about.   

[William-James88]

2 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

Absolutely. Happiness is what it's all about.   

100% And I will say, right now I am happy to be around all you wonderful like minded gents

[Math Teacher]

4 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

Mycomicshop tends to grade conservatively and in my buying experiences with them I have never been disappointed when buying raw books.

It is the exact opposite experience with Metropolis/Comicconnect. In fact it is so bad I am confident it is purposefully done. My opinion is you want your customers reporting positively on forums such as this. Instead well, read the thread.

I agree with this assessment 100%. I have bought 2 raw books from Metropolis/CommicConnect, and they both came back 2 full grades less (e.g., Metro - 7.5, CGC 5.5). I am not ever going to buy another raw book from them, regardless of how bad I want it. I have no problem buying slabbed comics from them, but I consider their prices to be a little high.

When I buy raw books from MyComicShop, I always find the book to be undergraded (e.g., MyComicShop - 3.5, CGC - 4.0/4.5). Granted, I haven't bought any expensive raw copies from them. But, to be honest, I'm not willing to buy a $200+ book that hasn't been slabbed.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Joe Ankenbauer

[Artboy99]

1 hour ago, Joe Ankenbauer said:

I agree with this assessment 100%. I have bought 2 raw books from Metropolis/CommicConnect, and they both came back 2 full grades less (e.g., Metro - 7.5, CGC 5.5). I am not ever going to buy another raw book from them, regardless of how bad I want it. I have no problem buying slabbed comics from them, but I consider their prices to be a little high.

When I buy raw books from MyComicShop, I always find the book to be undergraded (e.g., MyComicShop - 3.5, CGC - 4.0/4.5). Granted, I haven't bought any expensive raw copies from them. But, to be honest, I'm not willing to buy a $200+ book that hasn't been slabbed.

wise.

Around $200 is my cut off for the "risk" of buying raw. Above that I now only buy slabbed.