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If a High Grade Tec #27 Broke the World Record...
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107 posts in this topic

11 hours ago, Crowzilla said:

All This^

Batman was the #1 title for a few years in the late 60s due to the TV show, the people who watched that as a kid have certainly reached their earnings peak, and while it dipped in the 70s, it has been DC's #1 character since shortly after Dark Knight Returns (and certainly by the time of the '89 movie) with the brief exception of the Death of Superman storyline.

That's basically 35 years now as the top character for Batman, but Action #1 is still king. It's most likely not going to change.

I usually mistrust sweeping generalizations - especially when they claim validity for something close to all eternity. Just sayin ...

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11 hours ago, Crowzilla said:

All This^

Batman was the #1 title for a few years in the late 60s due to the TV show, the people who watched that as a kid have certainly reached their earnings peak, and while it dipped in the 70s, it has been DC's #1 character since shortly after Dark Knight Returns (and certainly by the time of the '89 movie) with the brief exception of the Death of Superman storyline.

That's basically 35 years now as the top character for Batman, but Action #1 is still king. It's most likely not going to change.

I really enjoyed the 1960s television show. It was a big hit at first but overall, lasted just over 2 years and was cancelled due to a significant drop in ratings.

The Superman live action series lasted nearly 6 years and Superman had 4 feature films before “Batman” came to theaters in 1989.

Batman films have since gone on to make $1,000,000+ globally by the late 2000s.

Fans born in the 1980s-present are the ones who have been impacted by the significant gap in character popularity and as of today, those people only represent (guesstimating) 10% of Action #1/Tec #27 owners.

90% of owners grew up during times when Superman, like Batman has become since the late 1980s, was the much more popular character. And we’ve seen how much people are willing to spend on characters that are connected to their childhoods.

There are a lot of age 20-40 Amazing Fantasy #15 owners and that book has blown the doors off of Fantastic Four #1 despite many years of collectors saying that would never happen.

The age 20-40 generation grew up loving Spider-Man. Ironically, Spider-Man ascended long before Batman. So collectors age 20-60 can all relate to Spider-Man in that way.

How will age 20-40 collectors invest in Action #1/Tec #27 when they shift out of the 10% and become the 90%? That’s anyone’s guess.

But for Action #1 to remain the No. 1 book 10-20 years down the road, collectors will have to spend more on a character that many didn’t even like that much vs. the character they loved with a passion. I don’t think that’s a given.

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47 minutes ago, Wayne-Tec said:

I really enjoyed the 1960s television show. It was a big hit at first but overall, lasted just over 2 years and was cancelled due to a significant drop in ratings.

The Superman live action series lasted nearly 6 years and Superman had 4 feature films before “Batman” came to theaters in 1989.

Batman films have since gone on to make $1,000,000+ globally by the late 2000s.

Fans born in the 1980s-present are the ones who have been impacted by the significant gap in character popularity and as of today, those people only represent (guesstimating) 10% of Action #1/Tec #27 owners.

90% of owners grew up during times when Superman, like Batman has become since the late 1980s, was the much more popular character. And we’ve seen how much people are willing to spend on characters that are connected to their childhoods.

There are a lot of age 20-40 Amazing Fantasy #15 owners and that book has blown the doors off of Fantastic Four #1 despite many years of collectors saying that would never happen.

The age 20-40 generation grew up loving Spider-Man. Ironically, Spider-Man ascended long before Batman. So collectors age 20-60 can all relate to Spider-Man in that way.

How will age 20-40 collectors invest in Action #1/Tec #27 when they shift out of the 10% and become the 90%? That’s anyone’s guess.

But for Action #1 to remain the No. 1 book 10-20 years down the road, collectors will have to spend more on a character that many didn’t even like that much vs. the character they loved with a passion. I don’t think that’s a given.

Action 1/Tec 27 will disintegrate in 30 years :baiting:

Disintegrate1.jpg

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On 5/24/2020 at 4:57 PM, comicdonna said:
On 5/24/2020 at 4:54 PM, woowoo said:

 

Detective 27 9.2 unrestord.jpg

The book seems over-sized.  Is it a treasury edition?

 

No, I believe the above copy is Stumbo the Giant's reading copy of 'Tec 27:  lol

Stumbo The Giant Comics - Comic Vine

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4 hours ago, thedude said:

is this because it would be seen as a "poor man" Tec #27?

Sure, the next "best" thing...just like ASM 1 if an AF15 can't be had. Or a Supe1/Action 7 in place of an Action 1. It may only be partial satisfaction for some collectors, but it is the closest thing to the top. (thumbsu

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3 minutes ago, Primetime said:

Sure, the next "best" thing...just like ASM 1 if an AF15 can't be had. Or a Supe1/Action 7 in place of an Action 1. It may only be partial satisfaction for some collectors, but it is the closest thing to the top. (thumbsu

Like a more-fun 32 missing back cover you'r saying :devil:

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On 5/25/2020 at 4:31 AM, G.A.tor said:
On 5/24/2020 at 5:56 PM, Chicago Boy said:

MUCH nicer than a Certified 9.2. W//  White pages ?   

Yes 9.4/9.6 nice is supposedly what the Allentown tec 27 copy would grade 

 

On 5/25/2020 at 8:02 AM, detective35 said:

The person that visited Anderson was able have a good look at the Allentown Tec 27,  and said if it anything it would be at least  9.6++ range (so 9.6 on the safe side).  It was similar to the Cap. Allentown #1 which he had seen multiple times, when Danny Kramer had owned it. 

I guess this is one of the reasons why Payette always had the reputation of being a tough grader as he had graded the Allentown copy of 'Tec 27 as being only a VF/NM copy.  :whatthe:

Looks like he had several other books graded higher including the Allentown copy of Cap 1 which he had graded out as being a NM/M copy which seems to have been in line with CGC's initial grading of the book, but apparently no longer.  (thumbsu

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The

4 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

 

I guess this is one of the reasons why Payette always had the reputation of being a tough grader as he had graded the Allentown copy of 'Tec 27 as being only a VF/NM copy.  :whatthe:

Looks like he had several other books graded higher including the Allentown copy of Cap 1 which he had graded out as being a NM/M copy which seems to have been in line with CGC's initial grading of the book, but apparently no longer.  (thumbsu

The guy that saw the books that at Anderson’s house knows what he’s doing as far as grading goes, and is probably one if the most knowledgeable, if not the most knowledgable in the business, plus he’s an extremely tight grader and it’s a friend of Jim’s.

Edited by detective35DF
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7 hours ago, Primetime said:

Sure, the next "best" thing...just like ASM 1 if an AF15 can't be had. Or a Supe1/Action 7 in place of an Action 1. It may only be partial satisfaction for some collectors, but it is the closest thing to the top. (thumbsu

+1

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12 hours ago, Wayne-Tec said:

But for Action #1 to remain the No. 1 book 10-20 years down the road, collectors will have to spend more on a character that many didn’t even like that much vs. the character they loved with a passion. I don’t think that’s a given.

How many baseball fans consider Honus Wagner to be their favorite player or the greatest player of all time?

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11 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Looks like he had several other books graded higher including the Allentown copy of Cap 1 which he had graded out as being a NM/M copy which seems to have been in line with CGC's initial grading of the book, but apparently no longer.  

Dean, I think you've got it backwards.  When the AT Cap 1 was first graded, CGC gave it "only" a 9.6.  After Verzyl resubbed it, it came back a 9.8, thus finally matching Payette's original grade. 

Unless it's been resubbed again and came back a 9.9 or 10.0.

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16 hours ago, woowoo said:

Action 1/Tec 27 will disintegrate in 30 years :baiting:

Disintegrate1.jpg

Just need another CPR and should be good..  but speaking of things not expected to make it 30 years.  Really surprised that they have almost made it.. between this and the Honus Wagner at least these two card references weren't lost on me. Still never owned a Wagner and only reason I have the MTG was due to purchases / trades of a TON of packs and boxes from 1993 - 1996..  One of the few really big returns from almost no investment. I am still shocked at the prices some of these cards command.. 

Back to the topic though,  i would agree that even given time and most things being equal (grade , provenance,  etc) the Action #1 will still hold the Higher Value as several have stated. It has become such a top of the market collectible value wise that it would take something extraordinary to upset it from that top spot. Examples being a bunch of high grade copies all being found a once, or a fake being graded as real which would really tank the company who did,  it as well as shake a lot of faith in the upper tier as well. That said this whole CPR deal is another way to see high grade books command a lower selling point , grade for grade with other comparables. Too many books with a high grade " new to market " have turned out to be previously sold copies that have been CPR without disclosure. 

20200527_044058.jpg

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4 hours ago, tth2 said:

Dean, I think you've got it backwards.  When the AT Cap 1 was first graded, CGC gave it "only" a 9.6.  After Verzyl resubbed it, it came back a 9.8, thus finally matching Payette's original grade. 

Unless it's been resubbed again and came back a 9.9 or 10.0.

Can definitely understand the 9.6-9.8 as I think most of us have had that 9.6 that looked 9.8 and some 9.8's that looked 9.6 , but if it did come back 9.9 or 10.  :ohnoez: 

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4 hours ago, tth2 said:

How many baseball fans consider Honus Wagner to be their favorite player or the greatest player of all time?

Probably only the ones who are part of "the facts now" or "the real cost" movements , for praising his anti tobacco stance. 

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12 hours ago, tth2 said:

Dean, I think you've got it backwards.  When the AT Cap 1 was first graded, CGC gave it "only" a 9.6.  After Verzyl resubbed it, it came back a 9.8, thus finally matching Payette's original grade. 

Unless it's been resubbed again and came back a 9.9 or 10.0.

Hey Tim;

Definitely my bad as it's easy for me to get confused when it comes to these uber nosebleed grades in the rarified stratosphere where collectors like you tend to hang out in.  :baiting:  lol

I am much more of a down to earth type of collector who's stuck in the F/VF Coronavirus infected shallow end of the pool.  :cry:

On a serious note though, it looks like Payette had graded less than 10 of the Allentown books as NM/M and of those had been graded up to 2006, it appears that 2 of them were initially graded as CGC 9.6 (i.e. Batman 6 and Cap 1) and only the Special Edition 1 had come back as a CGC 9.8 graded copy up to that point in time.  (thumbsu

Makes me kind of wonder how high the other Payette graded NM/M books would grade out as in the end.  hm  :taptaptap:

 

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8 hours ago, Crowzilla said:

I think you are really underestimating the impact the 60s show had on a lot of young kids/collectors. One who didn't grow up with George Reeves as Superman. A lot of them fell out of collecting and were brought right back in as adults by the 89 film and started collecting again. Saw lots of them in our shop at that time. The first Action #1 I ever sold went to a guy just like that, he loved Batman more than anything, but it was still Action #1.

I agree there are lots of kids who like Batman more than Superman, but who knows if they are ever going to want a Tec 27 or Acton 1?

Fantasy #15 has been the #1 SA book for such a long time, it's hard to remember back when it wasn't. It has actually been the #1 book for more years now than it hasn't been #1.

For as great as that show was (and I'm a big fan), I just don't know if a 2-year run + re-runs was enough to come anywhere close to closing the popularity gap, in totality. No character remains No. 1 every month of every year, but in overall, Superman topped Batman with some degree of consistency before the late 1980s. From the success of 1989's Batman, through multiple billion dollar films, into today's generation where these characters are just as popular amongst adults as they are children...collectors born from 1980-present have been part of a DC/Marvel generation unlike anything we've ever seen before, and it's going to be another 10-20 years before we'll be able to see which book they choose to invest more money into.

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